Playing CDs sounds better than Qobuz — dammit

You do not need to hardwire a streamer. Just get a wall wart wifi extender and put next to your streamer… plug into that. Put as much into the streamer as you can…. It makes a difference. As I may have said, I have owned $3K, $5K, $10K, and $22K streamers and each brought a huge increase in sound quality. You can add little tweaks like a Ethernet regenerator… etc. The important thing is to get a great streamer. 

It doesnot have to be  there are a lot of factors  your cables have a very lot to do

wth this wifi no way vs and wire from modem to router Is important ,I use a AQ Diamond , use Wireworld for a 10 m run, ,the key is the beginning  and much more so End point .to the computer 

uptone audio Ether regen Ethernet hub  truly cleans and regen s digital signal , the most important Ethernet cable without question is from the hub to the I computer server 

which I use a AQ Diamond  the usb a AQ Diamond it sounds very good ,using a Terminator 2dac ,I plan on  buying a DCS Bartok when deal gets through with my brother.

the new Synergistc research new  Ethernet  hub is a game changer for streaming ,my brothers bought one And even compared  To my very good Uptone audio hub this makes streaming much more real ,but is $2200 with ice power cord . I will have to save a couple months . In audio it never ends, always short on $$ funds !!

So, let’s drill down a bit here.  I realize I need to go hard-wired to a good streamer, and it also makes sense I should upgrade my switch.  Can’t do both right now, so I’m guessing I should go with hardwired streamer first and then upgrade switch?  Or Optical Rendu?  Thoughts?

Uh, CDs are digital.  

Nothing digital sounds as good as CD, unfortunately. 

Well, weeding through all this good info — and thank you so much for sharing your experience — I’ve gotta get a hard-wired streamer and also upgrade my switch.  How would something like an Optical Rendu factor into this equation?   As a long-time audiophile I know that EVERYTHING matters to some degree, but I don’t have an unlimited budget so just looking to where to best draw the line.  Let’s call it a budget of $1500 give or take to up my streaming game.  Thanks again and much appreciated for those who’ve already fought this battle!

I would recommend an Aurender N100… used if too expensive new. It took my headphone system out of the restrictions posed by iPods, iPads… etc. while there is no question that streaming can equal or best CD players it will always depend on the player / streamer comparison.

@pedroeb --

The only format that has ever shown itself to be consistently, truly above the others on my system is Qobuz top-shelf hi-rez streaming. Below that is vinyl, but that doesn't mean Red Book or SACD doesn't ooch above vinyl a reasonable amount of the time. The trouble is, for one reason or another I just can't reliably stream hi-rez files. I'll often just get silence when I try, especially during peak hours. What's/who's to blame? My phone/cable provider?  Luckily, though, I never fail to get music when I switch to Qobuz' more modest CD level stream. Every once in a while, Idagio's CD level streams fail to make it to my stereo, as well.

Would it be better if I had a CD or download? I just don't care...

I'm glad you're satisfied.

If one is clearly superior to the other then maybe you should unless you are easily pleased.

I must admit to occasionally listening to AAC 192 kbps at lower levels and being satisfied.

Hi SOIX

For the sake of not getting into a brand discussion as everyone on this forum likes what they own better than anything else, I will only say that you should buy one that has the features you need. The software that is used to operate it is also really important. 

Many will operate using your phone which is really convenient.  Some have built in DACS and some do MQA if that is important to you.  

I have found that just the streamer itself,  they all pretty much sound alike. 

It's the DAC that makes a difference. 

But for sure,  a wired dedicated streamer Will pass more and cleaner data.

Get your network and streamer optimized, you won't go back to playing cd's. I'm at point where I cannot tell between cd rips and streams.

I used to use a dongle and when I switched to a hard wired streamer the sound quality drastically improved. 

So, @vanson1 you seem to have a similar experience to mine.  What streamer did you find was a big improvement over streaming through iDevices?

@soix Everything is going to sound different, better or worse. Different CD players are going to sound different but one thing I can honestly say is that a computer, NUC or Raspberry POS is never going to sound as good as a quality dedicated storage/streamer.

From experience I really tried to get the computer thing to work but it just doesn't.

If you want real sound you have to get a dedicated streamer with everything that goes with it, but first rip your CDs and see what sound you're getting from a quality storage device not a NAS or USB/HDD.

I used to use a dongle and when I switched to a hard wired streamer the sound quality drastically improved. 

I have used Qubuz,  tidal,  radio paradise,  Spotify. TuneIn and they all sound very good. Just as good as the CD. 

Tidal and Qubuz are probably tops.

There is also variation depending on the song.

That's probably the biggest difference. 

In my system sits a fairly high end streamer which connects to my router via wifi. Also connected to my router, this time via a Cat5e cable (I’ve tried several and a Cat6a) is a CD ripper with an SSD in it. Comparing ripped CDs to Qobuz I mostly enjoy the ripped CDs more but Qobuz is still very acceptable.

@soix 

I have about 2000 CD/SACD’s, with about 1/2 of the ripped on a NAS. I listen to 2 - 3 a day. At that rate, I won’t repeat any for about 3 - 4 years! 😀

All the best.

JD 

CD has jitter built in. The music data is combined with the clock signal on the CD, it’s basically flawed from the start. With streaming the data is separate to the clock. More precise.

I’d start with going hardwired with a CAT8. Careful when spending $$$ on a switch, I experimented with it and it did absolutely nothing. 

There's an additional factor accounting for (most if not all of) the SQ difference that's not be considered, which is the RFI and EMI noise traveling with the bits that 

     1) alter the timing of the bits arriving at the streamer/DAC (i.e. jitter)

     2) enter the DAC (along with the bits) and contaminates the DAC's analog

         stages

Introducing an audiophile switch (like the Uptone EtherREGEN or better), and upgrading the ethernet cables (Supra Cat8 or better) from the cable modem to the streamer/DAC will yield DRAMATIC improvements in all SQ aspects. 

These upgrades effectively eliminated the delta in SQ in my system.

Of course a cd sounds better! Your music is being derived straight from a physical media rather than over some internet connection. Plus the cd is more pure and direct, as the cd player or transport is hard wired right to your preamp. Hi res is over rated, at some point no one can tell the difference between it and a hi quality well recorded cd.

Quobuz is way better than CD in my system, but that only came about with correct implementation and filtering of the wired Ethernet network.

Depends totally on the equipment. When I streamed from my Mac, I thought CD sounded better, at least on red book. When I replaced the computer, streaming sounded better, using the same DAC.

Not long ago someone reported his ratings as follows:

11=R2R

10= LP 

9.0= Downloaded files

8.5= CD rebook

7.0=Streamed Hi-res.

Streamed music is getting better every year.

The insane advantages of streaming make it an 

unavoidable destination. 

Go Stream Go!!

PS: Roon is said to actually degrade the SQ as compared to

some proprietary software provided by individual manufacturers.

This makes sense to me as a homogenization must result in a step 

down in SQ. Not to say I don't use Roon as i do.

Make sure you are comparing apples/apples ie the same cd release. Many popular CDs have various remastered releases over the years and streaming services tend to lean towards newer releases which also tend to be mastered louder. Also possible the streaming service does other processing that changes the sound But I cannot cite specific known examples. I would not assume it’s something on your end making the difference necessarily. Do you rip and stream your own CDs? Try that and compare for something more controlled to compare. 

Say what you will, dudes & dudettes, but right now via Qobuz I'm listening to an absolutely excellent, excellently recorded performance of Beethoven's 8th Symphony. Vienna Philharmonic on DGG, conducted by Andris Nelsons. I'm listenin' happy. Would it be better if I had a CD or download? I just don't care...

Ok.  Let’s cut to the chase here.  Who’s used their i devices as WiFi streamers and upgraded to something wired or otherwise that was significantly better than using their iDevices. 

soix

Agreed - CD/SACD best any server or streamer. Now, spin a few shiny discs.

Happy Listening!

Red book CDs sound exactly the same as streamed equivalents on my system and Qobuz typically sounds better because of the higher resolution. So, it is simply a matter of equipment.

I have used iPods, iPhones, iPads, PCs, MacBooks as streamers. If you want really good sound you need to move beyond those. You need to use a dedicated streamer to get excellent streaming sound quality. The level of streamer you need depends on the level of the rest of your components. If you have a $10K system, maybe a $1.5K streamer might do it. I have a $17K CD player and a my $22K streamer sounds exactly the same with red book CDs… but is usually bested because of Qobuz’s greater resolution on many recordings. What ever your level, it depends on your equipment.

I recommend you look at Aurender streamers… I have owned Auralic as well and settled on Aurender, and own two, one for my headphone system (N100) and a W20SE for my main system.

You can click on my user ID to see my systems. 

I agree! Super hi-rez formats over ordinary CD format didn't help at all. Large loss of dynamics compared to the original CD releases. Lots of artists are still releasing CDs and certainly LPs for that matter and I never refuse buying them directly from artists during performances. I compared mediocre CD-player to Tidal streamer and decided to return it and invest money on ordinary CDs and LPs. There aren't too many bands server-only. Most of them releasing media disks.

I think that CDs best streaming from Qobuz.  Not that Qobuz is bad, but in my system there is a hair breadth of difference.  You will see claims both ways, but frequently people are not comparing comparable components, perhaps a $300 CDP vs a $10K streamer or vice versa.  In my 2 channel system, using the same DAC, I find streaming my burned CDs from my NAS and playing CDs are nearly comparable, and streaming Qobuz through the same streamers (Melco N100 and Cambridge Audio CXN 60) just that slightly audible fall off, with a higher noise floor and less sharply painted tones.  Perhaps an Uber expensive streamer would reveal Qobuz in a more favorable light. 
  In your case the first obvious issues are the sources.  You can do worse than Apple mobile devices but they were never intended to be high end music players.  Secondly I do think wired is better.  I would also invest in a dedicated streamer.  Which one depends on your budget and desired features.

Qobuz HAS gotten quieter lately, just look at the interstitial.Ultimate rarely equates with convenience.

There is definitely no such thing a iUltimate.

If you want to rival the best just do the iFi Zen streamer powered by their iPower Elite.