Parity

After an adjustment on my Sutherland phono preamp, my analog side has opened up greatly and there is more parity.

Well, as I said, I’ve finally made peace with the analog side and am starting to enjoy some of my 2000 records.

I agree with what's been said so far. My analog set up costed twice digital. Some albums I prefer to listen to in digital and some analog. It depends on the recordings. I have a few albums where digital beats the vinyl counterpart by a healthy margin. So it's definitely not one better than the other.

A well set up vinyl system has euphonic distortions that are pleasant to the human ear. There is no conceivable scenario where vinyl has less distortions than hi res digital. That said, digital for this very reason may sound ‘harsher’ and less pleasant.

@audphile rightly points out significant differences in versions of the same recording as a result from different mastering techniques and sound engineers. That however doesn’t usually compensate for the difference in euphonic distortion.

From my experience:

1. A properly set up streaming system is hard to beat

2. Most of the albums streamed are remastered especially the high-res ones. New well recorded redbook and high-res albums sound great

3. Original old vinyl is a hit or miss compared to some of the remastered counterparts on Qobuz or Tidal

4. New editions on vinyl done by MoFi (put the DSD controversy aside for the intents and purposes of this conversation) and Analog Productions sound amazing. However they sound different from digital on CD or streaming. Some sound better than digital. I own jazz and classical on MoFi, AP vinyl that I prefer over digital/streaming versions in some cases. 

Then there’s a convenience factor and new music discovery capabilities with streaming that you just don’t have if you’re limited to physical media.
There are pros and cons to each format  

All in all, I’ve come to appreciate the differences in sound between analog and streaming. If analog and digital sounded exactly the same there would be no point in owning the playback equipment for both formats. However, you may be neither here nor there. So…
If you want to focus on digital, selling the analog set up to use the funds to up the ante in the digital front end makes total sense to me. Kind of hard to give up the experience of physically handling records, tinkering around with the set up and finally enjoying the sonic difference between the formats. If that’s your cup of tea. 

Just my take on it. 

@bdp24 

+1

Exactly.

For a younger person, choosing between starting an LP playing system & buying LP’s vs. going full digital is a reasonable proposition. For old guys, who already had a healthy LP library when the CD was introduced, and continued buying them for the next twenty years (used ones being dumped by people buying into the CD hustle, and the few new ones being manufactured), the situation is quite different. Who in hell would suddenly ignore his 5,000 (or whatever) LP’s and switch to digital?! That’s why many old guys have both analogue & digital players and music collections.

mijostyn

"The issue with LPs is that they are extremely variable, performance ranging from insanely good to awful. Digital sources are more consistent. Digital also costs much less. Analog is much more fun. "

This is precisely how I feel.  I bought an early pressing of a Billie Holiday album from the Blue Note label - the music and the recording quality are wonderful.  However the surface noise is awful and annoying.  If I see it again I'll buy it and hope for better luck.

When digital came out in the 80s I was still on the side of analog. Simply sounder better than early digital. With so much good music not available on vinyl I finially purchased a CD player. Around 2010 when I decided to get back to audiophillia and develop a better system I transitioned towards digital only system. Primarily do to wanting to direct my expenses toward optomizing a single source. With digital I still spin CDs via transport and DAC. I do some streaming via Apple computer to find new music. I am exploring the purchase of a dedicated streamer however not in any hurry. The TT I purdchased for the system that carried me for 25 years remains on a shelf in the basement. I maybe have 125 albums stored there also. Been thinking I should break the TT out and play some of those I used to play for my 1st child way back when. I appreciate that there is fun in vinyl however I am happy with the way digital serves up the music in my system.

So much of your enjoyment comes from what you bring with you to the table.  
Your state of mind can create a pleasurable or negative experience.  That’s why listening for the MUSIC rather than the sound is the way to go.

Well, I had two directions I could go.  I could: 1. Abandon records altogether (as above,)  or 2. totally revamp my analog system.  I chose the latter. Although I have some second thoughts about the decision, I have come to the conclusion that they both make very pleasurable sounds.  And each has its own unique character.  And, as such, I can enjoy both.

bdp24, Well said and mirrors my thoughts exactly. I also tend to agree with Steve's position, at least it reflects my feelings.

I put together a near SOTA system in the 80's (not because I was smart but because I could) and found that early digital was unlistenable however, unfortunately concurrently, LP's quality had degenerated to a point that I was not buying either new digital or analog (and didn't have the knowledge or intelligence to buy up used LP's becoming available). Then I got a good CDP and some good recordings (performances and recordings)  and I finally had access to lots of music that I had missed and the musical content of my digital collection quickly exceeded my LP collection (substantially) and the quality quickly challenged the analog system.

Ultimately I found that maintaining (and using) a vinyl recording system was too time consuming, fussy, and although often the results were far superior to my digital it was, for me, counter productive to use the analog stuff any longer. So I gave it away, everything, and went strictly to digital. And without the analog any longer I found that I was able to focus on, and improve, my digital system as well.

For those reasons I agree with Steve. I'm a happy camper now and I'm pretty much back where I started, trying to focus on the music. I still respect the 'audio' aspects but not so much.  :-)

@thyname and @rvpiano: Audiogon member @slaw---whose opinions I greatly respect---having worked long and hard at optimizing his LP player and the system it feeds, decided he didn’t want to do the same for digital sources, so eschews CD’s/SACD’s/etc. altogether.

Though I understand and respect that decision and stance, in my case there are just too many albums I absolutely love---both Pop and Classical---that have been made available only on CD for me to not have a disc spinner. I don’t expect the two formats to sound the same, but then we all know sound quality amongst LP’s varies greatly too. There are plenty of CD’s that sound better than some LP’s, but even if they didn’t I need and listen to them because of the music they contain.

I’m a music lover first, an audiophile second. I don’t use my recordings to make my system sound good, I use my system to make my recordings sound good, or at least as good as they can. That applies equally to LP’s and CD’s/SACD’s. It is Steve’s position that a system optimized for one will inherently be less than optimum for the other. Comments and/or opinions on that position? Are the two formats so inherently different that each needs a playback system optimized for itself?

What’s so damned maddening about this hobby is the inevitable marriage of music and sound which becomes so intrinsically entwined that we lose track of the beauty of the music itself. As bdp24 so knowingly prodded: “Remember when you loved music you heard, long before you became obsessed with sound quality?”

That’s what we must never forget.

@abnerjack , I have a Sota Cosmos Vacuum and I use a Schroder CB tonearm which fits and works perfectly. I am extremely happy with the combination. With the right program source (LP), the turntable, with an MSL Platinum Signature installed, will outperform any digital source I have used in the system. This is extremely impressive. The issue with LPs is that they are extremely variable, performance ranging from insanely good to awful. Digital sources are more consistent. Digital also costs much less. Analog is much more fun. 

@bdp24 : Well said. Spot on! But…. It is what it is.

@rvpiano : I am not surprised with your findings. From my (failed) experience with vinyl a few years back, I realized pretty quick I had to spend a lot more money on my vinyl gig to match the performance of my digital rig. Money I don’t possess. So I abandoned my vinyl project completely. Now I only have a digital system, that’s where I focused. And I don’t regret it one bit. Now… if one is “digital is just zeroes and ones” type, then analog will most certainly sound better than the lowly digital “system” put together based on that concept 

bdp24,

How absolutely right you are!  
I was half expecting someone to post this in response to my writing. 
It’s so easy to take you’re eye off the ball and fall into a slump (I’m watching baseball right now.). 
Thanks for the correction. Lord knows I’ve proselytized about this myself before.

@rvpiano: No offense intended, but this is what happens when you make sound quality your first priority. I've been there myself, but now make my next musical selection based on what I'm hungering for musically. If it is also in good sound, wonderful, that's a bonus.

Being an audiophile has its benefits and pleasures, but is also in a way a curse. Remember when you loved music you heard, long before you became obsessed with sound quality? If it truly is---as we all claim---about the music, then we have to act like it is ;-) .

abnerjack,

Yes, there is some “magic” in a good vinyl pressing.
I’m listening to one right now. Nothing like it!

It isn’t that records generally sound bad, it’s that digital sounds usually so damn good.

rvpiano, I feel your pain, as I am going through the same process.  I am getting the Sota motor/Eclipse package and a better cartridge for my tt.  That might surpass the digital side for a while; if not I'll think about a different tonearm.

If these changes top the digital sound, then how about a new streamer or dac?  Where does it end?

From my point of view I think it's a little harder/more expensive to get the analog side up to par with streaming, but I feel some magic with a good vinyl pressing.

Unfortunately, the sad reality has set in after the first blush of new-equipment-itis.  
‘Demonstrably, the SQ of my analog side is still not really up to par with the digital side.  After so much money and effort spent, I expected better.  
Now I’m faced with the dilemma of which side to choose when I listen to music. I’d love to play with my new toy, but the same tracks sound better on my streamer! So what’s the point.

jerryg123,

Totally agree!!!

Parity, Synergy, Coherence, Compatibility, of each component in the chain (including cables) are the true key to a great system not the $$$$$$$$ spent. 

Streaming is great, I use it most of the time, but keep the wall of records and CD's.  It makes terrific ambience for your listening room.  I have some occasional gatherings and it seems a lot of my friends [mostly 60-ish] will pick out a record they want to hear on the Thorens, and I am happy to indulge them.

Thank You!

@rvpiano  Congratulations on your rig. I love my Feickert Volare as well. Enjoy the music. 

OP, nothing really goes obsolete....it becomes 'vintage', or at least can be claimed to be such.

"We're just very selective pack-rats...." *L*

I think this parity - if the equipment is on the same level - also depends on the source, some LP's sound better than their digital versions, whereas the other releases do sound better in digital formats. Generally for me, if the source is good, analog does always sounds better (Miles Davis, Melody Gardot could not be better examples); less thin, fuller and with more engaging sound. Digital, on the other hand is the most accurate, and of course, conviniet.

bdp24,

After a fire I had my music room rebuilt with about twenty feet of CD shelving floor to ceiling, plus record browsers and shelves.
Now, with streaming, it’s effectively obsolete.

Dang @rvpiano, 4000 CDs! I know how much wall space that eats up---I have somewhere between 3500 and 3600. My six CD racks (three wide, two high) take up almost an entire wall, floor-to-ceiling. On the opposite wall are the LP's (of which I have never counted), the racks for which leave only enough room for one set of stacked Tube Traps.

zazouswing,

I’m using the Origin Live arm.

bdp24,

I have about 2000 records and 4000 CDs. 
Until recently, I’ve been mostly streaming, even with all the software.  
I think my habits are going to change with the new turntable.

@rvpiano - I’ve been interested in the Feickert Volare for a while. Either that or a SOTA Saphire will likely end up being table #4. Curious as to what arm you used.  

A related issue is the ratio of the number of LP’s in your music library vs. the number of CD’s/SACD’s, and the relative time you spend listening to each source type.

Congratulations @rvpiano 

Eventhough I have a few thousand CD’s and albums, I bought a streamer about six months ago and have been like a kid in a candy store.  I’m thinking about going totally digital.  
 

Enjoy!

Amen.

I got to the same spot too. However can't say I experience such difference between the analog rig and the digital ones. Definitely got the same amount of spaciousness in digital as analog if not more. I would agree that analog does sound a little more laid back but that has a lot to do with the different recording techniques. 

Time to enjoy the music.

Been doing that so much lately, I hardly find the time or desire to talk about it. 

BTW, I did get the Audio Envy P3 power cord and soborthane isolation pads for my Jay's cdt2-mk3 and it has definitely improved clarity and space big time and brought it at least to the level of streaming and vinyl. That's obviously what the Jay's needed.

Wonderful, listening to Infected Mushroom, Converting Vegetarians disc 2 right now. Just WOW!

@rvpiano That’s a great place to be, congrats! Stay happy with it for as long as you can. :)

Blisshifi,

I am blissfully (pun intended) happy with my digital setup.  
I really don’t need it to sound any better than it does.  
Quite frankly the synergy of my system is so good, I would not want it to change.

RV, I erred! Its Get Happy. Sorry 'bout that.

@rvpiano I am an audiophile first, but also an Aurender dealer, so take the below as both  objective and subjective suggestion.

I used to own the Cambridge CXN V2 as my primary streamer in a second system. I had immediately upgraded it to the Modwright-modded one, where Dan Wright overhauls the unit entirely with a tube analog stage, massive transformer, and linear power supply. It was a great improvement that moved its DAC performance very close to the PS Audio DirectStream DAC (which I also had at the time), but with more bloom. I ended up selling the CXN V2 when I consolidated that system to make space to become a dealer earlier this year.

Recently, I had a customer bring his CXN (also Modwright-modded) to demo both  its streamer capabilities against an Aurender N200 and its DAC against the T+A DAC 200. While the T+A DAC 200 was clearly a better performer than the Modwright-modded CXN V2, the surprisingly bigger gain resulted from using the Aurender N200 as a streamer to the Modwright CXN V2's digital input and DAC. The difference was so great and immediately noticeable that the customer said within a minute "I'm buying the N200". I never noticed how etched the CXN's streamer was. The N200 was more detailed, more cohesive and musical, fuller-bodied. Something for you to consider as you continue to elevate your digital source.

Newbee,

I will check it out.

‘Thank you.

Thyname,

I think I spent about twice as much for the analog side.

Great - Be Happy!

BTW Jenny Lin has a CD out on the Steinway label called "Be Happy" which is easy to recommend for some relaxed listening - check it out. She's a pretty fair pianist I think.

Congratulations.

It is a great milestone in everyone’s system. The constant pull to the better one really takes away a lot of pleasure. So enjoy. I have never enjoyed my system more. I just stream +95% now.

By the way, with a change the digital end you could eliminate the finely etched… or for that matter you could get rid of the mellowness of the vinyl. The character of each are primarily determined by your streamer / DAC or cartridge / Phonostage.

So if in the future you get an urge to either split the difference and have the two sounds converge or have both move towards one or the other you can.

Congratulations! It sounds like you completed Digital first then Analog?

I am curious, which one did cost you more money? In other words, to accomplish the same SQ (parity you mentioned), which one (Digital vs. Analog) did you have to spend more money on? Thank you,

That sounds good 😉, enjoy!