Non-fatiguing speakers in $10K range?

@mikhailark I have a similar taste in speaker and sensitivity to what gets described as bright.  Before I realized what I really liked I locked into Focal’s based on R&D / Build Quality.  Took me a minute to realize they were voiced in a way I couldn’t electronic my way out of with Amps / Pre’s.  
 

I haven’t heard the Revel models recommended but they show up regularly in forums with really high praise for being non-fatiguing but doing everything really well.  Sonus Faber are another but you’ve already identified they are a little too laid back for your liking.  
 

If you have a local well regarded speaker maker, that can be an awesome route, I live on the East Coast and had a highly regarded speaker maker make me a set.  Having the ability to visit the shop, talk to the designer, have him walk through his recommendations based on the sound signature I liked, was great.  The speakers came out beautifully, 

The speakers I have today would check all your boxes but maybe one, how they measure.  I have Alta Audio Alec’s.  They are unique in their design, the designer tuned them more like an instrument vs’s worrying about measurements.  You’ll find a lot of really positive reviews overall but you’ll also find some who really don’t care for them with that usually stemming from how they measure.  Micheal Levy is the owner, designer and is easily accessible.  I love them and they’d pair really well with your current electronics.  Those who like them, like them because they check a lot of the boxes sound signature wise that you are looking for.

Olsens has the Team Fink Kim currently now that’s a ribbon 🎀 speaker for you. 

@helomech care to share links for 'most of Legacy's designs'  measurements that you speak of?

Newer generation ATC Entry level series are a big YES. Non-fatiguing. The key is to get the ATC’s with the ATC-made tweeter, not the ones made with the ferry-fluid based ScanSpeak tweeters. Ie, ATC SCM 40v2, not ATC SCM35, or earlier ATC SCM20’s.

@mikhailark Please put more focus on the Accuphase E 800 regarding speaker synergy then just the speaker as a stand alone. With no interest in Jazz/Classical or Vocals a very refined loudspeaker is not necessary. Fyne Audio/Zu/Klipsch/JBL all should be efficient enough that it won’t place any strain on the Accuphase.

In the $10K - 12K price range, two speakers stand out:   Borreson X3 and Daedalus Muse Studio.  The latter might take some time as it would probably be built to order. They are built in your area, and you could definitely go see Lou Hinkley and audition for them.  You won't be disappointed. Someone mentioned listening fatigue, something you would not be able to blame these speakers for. There is a sweet tone that is rare in speakers costing twice the price.

Franco Serblin Ketema. Not only the best sounding dynamic speaker I have heard but also the most beautiful. You will love the way these look, Italian design. Serblin was Sonus Faber's chief designer. The Ketemas are also a crazy bargain. They are $40K, but they trounce speakers costing way more, like $300K way more. These are it unless you really want to mess up your life with ESLs. 

Borresen x3 hands down 

@OP. Wilson Maxx IIs are now down around €10K. Unlike many older Wilson speakers, they are not forward sounding and will give you the scale that you need for rock music - but sound good on everything when properly set up.

ProAc are also a good choice, though personally I prefer the soft dome versions of their loudspeakers. You should try to listen to both those and the ribbon tweeter versions to decide for yourself.

Without any hesitation and a Best Buy the Borresen X3 they will play down into low to mid 30 hz in Bass and well over 50khz in that wave guide Ribbon tweeter

exceptional detail and Big soundstage and 90db efficient a no brainer 

I have heard a lot of the Borresen line show around for under $11k delivered.

Hello,

in the Seattle area you might look to Olson’s HiFi in Lynnwood.   Ben and his team have great ears, offer meaningful advice, and have a lot of stock.   They are also very accommodating.  www.olsonshifi.com.

i am not associated with them, other than being a repeat satisfied customer.

@helomech - It seems like there is love/hate with Legacy, some people really, really love them. I am not particularly keep on Legacy simply b/c of the size and weight. I am not into moving them and there is no one to help me if I decide to reposition them or even get them moved from main floor down to my audio place...

@ditusa - JBL seems to be a horn or waveguide like they use in concerts?

I have a pair of Avalon Eidelon Diamonds in Port Townsend if you are interested in checking out. 

2nd Vandersteen......make sure you set them up correctly for great enjoyment.

If you can wait until September for the audio show (Pacific Audio Fest), that would be the best opportunity to listen a variety of spakers in your price range.  I am found of the Gershman offerings and the open baffle designs by Spatial Audio and Pure Audio Project.  It's best to listen in person to get a flavor of the sound signature even though it's not in your own room.  I live just north of Seattle (Brier) and we are in a kind of audio waste land.

Kharma speakers if you can find them within this price range ?

You have a great amp.

Good beryllium tweeters are not bright. Some manufacturers just happen to voice their beryllium-tweetered speakers with higher treble (some Focals for example). But listen to Magico’s beryllium and you’ll discover they are not at all bright or fatiguing. 

Based on the measurements of most Legacy designs, I would steer clear of them. Plus their custom drivers are not as impressive as they’d like us to believe.

I recommend putting Revel Salon 2s on your short list. They are older than some of those others but remain competitive. 

You would also do well to consider Perlistens. 

@dill 

+1

Ooh those Acoustic Zen's are pretty!  Never heard them.  I suppose with speakers it is what you find within a reasonable distance.  Although I did manage to finagle a 'weekend trip to Nashville ( from Baltimore) to pick up my Salon 2's!

Hi @mikhailark , On my speaker buying adventure a few years ago I heard both the D48 and the K6 from Proac.  Very nice.  Bottom ports I believe so bass was impressive and highs silky smooth.  I had Vandersteen Sig3a's years ago and they did not do it.  I passed on Magico, Kef Reference, Sonus Faber Amati Tradition, and Focals in favor of Revel Salon 2's (used).  They are getting to be a bit of an older model, but they do nothing wrong and everything right.  The Studio 2's are great for a smaller room, but the Salon 2's fill a big room beautifully.  They do like power.  And I like sealed speakers vs ports, fundamentally.  You see them now for under 10k for the Salon 2's, a steal.  Good Luck!

Revel F 208 sound very smooth and non-fatiguing.if you look at the Stereophile measurements they do not suffer that bump in the frequency response that you mention.If anything they have a slight recess there.

Also Revival Audio Atilante.

Unfortunately most modern speakers seem to be voiced to sound impressive for short term [showroom] listening but will become annoying over time.

Checkout Stereotypes, Echo Audio, Pearl Audio in Portland.

I think you’ve identified some good candidates with the possible exception of the A3s that may trigger your treble sensitivity especially with the music you listen to.  Given what you’re looking for I immediately thought Legacy or used Acoustic Zen Crescendos if you can accommodate their size.  There’s a nice pair of AZs available now…

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650110650-acoustic-zen-crescendo-tower-speakers/

ProAc is one of my fave speakers as well, and QLN Prestige 3 is also worth a look.  Best of luck. 
 

Your yes’s and no’s of speakers seem consistent with your observations of speaker brands. Off the cuff… sorry that Pass is out… I would think Wilson / Pass would be a good combo for you. There are some other combos but not sure the Accuphase is the right choice. You seem to know what you want… you might need to choose the speaker then preamp / amp to get what you want.

Past 2 weeks I’ve been rocking Paradigm Founder 120H. Bought them used for well under half price. Perfect condition. I vote them best rock speakers I’ve ever had. Warm but detailed mids, non piercing highs, Killer articulate bass. Everything sounds good on these but they have knocked Tekton Double Impacts off the throne for me as far as rock music goes. Way different sound signature from older Paradigms IMO. Stereophile measurements show a bump around 10k. I don’t hear that at all. Maybe that was on axis and I’m pointing beside my shoulders. 

@gdnrbob I am in Seattle and to some definition it is a major city. And yet there is very little so listen to. Some list many brands on their web sites but do not actually have anything in stock. Some distributors (such US one for ProAc) shows there is a dealer in Seattle, but when I go to the dealer web site, there is no ProAc and they claim they do not carry any.

Hawthorne Stereo now mostly sells vintage and lower end gear. Definitive Audio is now $$$$. And DA Seattle is actually closed, only one in suburbs close to Microsoft ($$$) is actually open. There is another HiFi store but it is more like a warehouse full of boxes and don’t have any real listening room.

I went and listened to B&W (hard no), Linn (nope), ATC (no), KEF (no), Wilson (maybe...), Sonus Faber (a bit too relaxed already, voiced to classical, I think)

I can listen to AirPulse or Meze Elites for days. It is Focal I want to throw out :-).

As for measurements I simply thought at some point many years ago - why is that some speakers sound good to me and some not. I can read charts, I have masters in applied math (signal processing). So I did quite a bit of research that yielded quite high correlation between certain charts and my preferences. YMMV, of course.

Vandersteen would be my recommendation. 

I think your reliance on frequency charts is not something that will relate to how you will enjoy your speakers. 

The best way is to audition in brick and mortar dealer. Unfortunately, they are now limited to major cities- which I don't know if your are able to visit.

Speakers are quite personal, so understanding what sounds 'good' to you is something only you can decide.

My 2 cents- Ribbon tweeters seem clear and sound good, but just try listening to them for a few hours and you'll be wanting to rip out your ears. 

I think Audiogon member tomic601 is based near you.Try PM'ing him for dealers near you.

B