Non-fatiguing speakers in $10K range?

honestly if a speaker for 10K were fatiguing, it would be a ripoff. 

...also on USA...

Can't go wrong here: (listing on Agon)

That's funny because in the planar ribbon and some of  the articles on the infinity ribbons they were covering the tweeters with cloth to take some of the highs out so it has been done in the past on reviews on speakers.now days we have dsp that can get any sound you like to your personal taste.if it works for you and you enjoy it and it doesn't hurt then have fun experimenting.keep the mind active and enjoy the music stay healthy.

Reflections.  Sorry

the grill covers it. Use same color as tweeter frame. 

" Give a shot, I have 2 squares over my speakers in basement on concrete, really cleans up the elections and highs, whole new,speaker. "

- I bet it looks great too! Does it matter what color the shirt is or does it matter if it is clean or not? 

BTW: How did it clean up the "elections"?

Cut a tshirt in 1-2” squares, start w one layer, tape it over tweeter, if still bright, add another.  It works, and saves money. 
 

 Give a shot, I have 2 squares over my speakers in basement on concrete, really cleans up the elections and highs, whole new,speaker. 

@rooze - yes, thanks! I am watching if 48R happens to show up slightly used... :-)

ProAc D40R fit your spec. I have similar musical tastes to you (OP) and can play my D40R at any sane level without fatigue. They're rich, bold, full-bodied, and....full range. You won't need subs with the D40Rs. At 89db sensitivity they play unconstrained with 65 tube watts. (I'm currently looking to move up the ProAc line, but I should probably just stick with what I have)

From what others have suggested, QLN make good speakers. Harbeths are nice, but I wouldn't go for them if my tastes were rock-centric. I think Legacy make great speakers, and are widely underrated by the aphile community. Though as you say, they're quite big and heavy.

I can recommend 2 things for $10k that will be excellent.

An open box or demo Yamaha NS5000 speaker is great and unique in that it is a cone speaker with all 3 drivers made from the same material. That makes a big difference in the coherence of the speaker. No other cone speaker has that design. The cone material is called Zylon and is like Beryllium but not bright or toxic.

I used to own the Meze Emporium headphone. I then went to the RAAL SR1a and CA-1a. The new RAAL 1995 Immanis as incredible but expensive at $10k. However, these are competing against phones in the $50k+ level.

You can always take a nice ferry ride (or drive around) to Silverdale and see Jim & Aubry at Nuts About HiFi https://www.nutsabouthifi.com/manufacturers/ (big on Focal) or Kitsap Audio and see Derek or Victor https://silvercityhifi.com/pages/our-brands (Victor is worth the trip alone). Olsen's has previously been mentioned (Marty's a gas). Fun place and always have some deals going on!

Based on the sound description of these, it may be what you are looking for

@mikhailark , I have to apologize for getting your amps mixed up - somehow I was thinking low-powered Class A Pass Labs, when it’s actually low-powered (but not as low-powered) Class A Accuphase. Speakers with a voltage sensitivity at least in the lower 90’s still make sense to me given your room size, because imo clipping on the peaks would degrade the sound quality.

I owned a pair of Accuphase stereo amps years ago. They could be bridged to run as two very powerful mono amps, but they sounded better in stereo mode. So imo it is quite possible that, despite your amp’s extraordinary ability to maintain full rated power output into very low impedances, it will sound its best into an 8-ohm load.

I mentioned PiSpeakers, and you mentioned measurements. My favorite from their lineup is the 7Pi, which is an innovative corner horn type speaker that actually has excellent measured response. It would probably need subwoofers so that pushes the cost possibly beyond your price range, but if you appreciate innovative, outside-the-box thinking, you might take a look at it.

Just to be clear, I have zero commercial interest in Pi Speakers. I compete against them.

Duke

Unfortunately, there are not that many high end shops around Seattle with gear I like. Some went selling vintage and some went up selling only $100K+ systems. So most probably will be getting something blind.

I haven't read the entire thread, so perhaps someone has already suggested this, but you should visit Gig Harbor Audio if you haven't already.  The owner has a good ear for the type of speaker you're looking for and they carry a number of lines of British type monitors - Harbeth, Graham, Rogers, as well as high sensitivity speakers like Devore.  

You might also consider joining some local audio clubs - we have one here in Olympia that meets monthly and Seattle has one.  

I have been through a fair amount of speakers and keep coming back to Harbeth.  I currently have the Harbeth Compact 7ES-3 in my main system in a fairly large room.  They are the 30th Anniversary edition, not the current XC model.  I have also owned the Super HL5 Plus and have the P3ESR along with the Stirling Broadcast - LS3/5a, which is almost identical to the Super HL5 Plus, but priced lower.  I've also heard the Harbeth 40.2, which are amazing and could be found pre-owned in your price range.

I like speakers that are neutral and easy to listen to, but have detail, great midrange, and excellent imaging and soundstage.  I am very sensitive to anything that sounds "bright".

My room is fairly large, but I listen close to nearfield, about 9 feet from the speakers.  I have had larger speakers like Klipsch Chorus and Legacy Audio 20/20 in my room, but they were too much for the room and didn't image like smaller monitors do.  

I've had the Compact 7's in my system since the end of March.  My original thought was that they would probably end up in a second system, as I have KEF Reference 1 speakers and didn't think anything at or below their price point would be better, but I have not had any desire to put the KEFs back in the system. 

The KEFs are marvelous speakers that perform way beyond what you might expect from something their size.  They produce a remarkable amount of bass for a speaker of their size and while not super efficient, are relatively easy to drive.  

Some other options you might consider are Joseph Audio Pulsars or some of the small Gershman Acoustics speakers.  Vandersteen are also a good recommendation.

mikhailark

There are some really great recommendations already put forward, that are really helpful. If I were in your shoes with your listening tastes (and with your Accuphase), I'd pay attention to speaker sensitivity. Some thoughts if I were you (and this is not to poo poo any other suggestions), I'd look at: Volti Lucera's (99db), Fyne Audio Vintage Classic XIIs (96db), JBL 4349 (91db), Revel F228b (90db), and maybe the aforementioned GR-Research Billie (94db). Some might be hard to find to demo, some not

Non fatiguing is easy to find but shouldn't be the only thing on the list.  A smooth speaker that sounds slow, lacks micro dynamics, obscures detail and adds coloration may sound uninvolving and boring.  

Another vote for Harbeth which I have listened to with Accuphase amplification.

I love accuphase and the E800 looks like a beautiful amp. To get non-fatiguing, clean, full sound I'd focus on Revel and Dynaudio. Plenty of choices in your price range. Sonus faber and Harbeth maybe after that. 

Some highly recommended in this thread that I haven't heard such as Devore Borresson and Legacy so I can't comment. 

Good luck!

Another vote here for the QLN Prestige 3 speakers. They are hard to find, but boy oh boy can they sing!

At least read: 

And

Your life will never be the same again, and you will spend WEEKS searching for the subwoofer that someone sneaked into your listening room!!!

@mikhailark 

save yourself 5k and get the SVS Ultra Evolution Pinnacle Tower.  I heard them and the sound was totally unique and unfatiguing.  See the review at Audioholics

If you are buying used, Revel Salon 2 all day long, that beryllium tweeter  is one of the least fatigue I’ve ever heard so is their midrange, it has body and clarity at the same time (usually a paradox)  It’s just unbelievably open and clear sounding, plus  they rock the effing house down as long as you have enough power to them. that would be my number one choice by far and I’ve been in this business for a very long time.   

@mofojo  "You think a 2 way speaker with a 6-7 inch woofer/mid is gonna be good for rock or metal? Maybe at 75db but not much more than that and sound full and impactful."

Actually yes, Led Zeppelin, Stones, Rush, ACDC, Nugent, Metallica, Van Halen...

All sound really good on the QLNs, even Rap.  The thread emphasized "Non Fatiguing" and he mentioned that he is not interested in 120db, so that's why I mentioned them.

I'm not sure how big the room is, but the P3s can work in rooms up to 2,400 cubic ft.   

If SPL is the goal, then I agree with your Founders suggestion, I think the Perlisten R series could be good as well.  I have had the Magico A3s, those are actually aren't that fatiguing, but you will need a good source and a decent amount of power.  

I currently have Focal Electra 1008BE's powered by Hegel H90 (60 watts). I did not demo them live. I kept listening to a YT vid of Jamaican Heartbeat by Acoustic Alchemy with 1208BE's- the floor standers powered by Naim. It's was 99% of the sound I loved minus a tad off the top end.  did enough research to understand that the Beryllium Tweeter would do better (for me) with a warmer sounding amp. Thought about Tsakaridis integrated but decided I didn't want tubes right now. The Hegel is prefect! I have the Focals on a pair of custom Sound Anchor stands which eliminates any need for a sw. Now, I said all that by way of background so that whenI make my recommendation, there's some objective evidence to back it up. 

FYNE AUDIO F1-8 stand mount speakers and your E800 would be a sonic match made in heaven. Trust me. Upscale Audio is a dealer. 

Ditto the Volti Razz (and other of Greg’s speakers). Owned for about two years after moving from Rebels, then Harbeth 30.2s. Dynamic, lush and totally non-fatiguing). They make listening fun!

Consider Reference 3A. Like you, I like a detailed, but relaxed presentation of rock and roll, and the R3As suit me quite well.

Here’s a recommendation to consider: GR Research "Bully." 

I might be a bit biased since I’ve owned the NX-Studio with modified cabinet and crossover components, but I highly recommend the "Bully."

Many speakers into my journey (ask my wife) and the best I’ve had in my room are the old school Magico V3 with a small Dyn sub.  In my opinion the sourced Scanspeak tweeter is better than the new beryllium one.  Less fatiguing to my ears. 

The giant killers in this range seem to be the perlisten r7t and the Borresen x3’s. 

I have the tekton ulfberht read the review they call them giant killers and they are.i also have the legacy and saloon 2 all in your price range.but dollar for dollar tektons sound the best and are the best for rock.visit thier site.there are safe movers that will put your speakers up and down your stairs you might call a shop that sells safes they could put you in contact with them.hand trucks with the roller belt on back are great as well .have hand trucks with motorized wheels that rotate as well.a rental agency may have some.enjoy the music.stay healthy

Cabinetry is terrible...finish is the worst....But for Rock and Metal....dollar for dollar, Nobody but Nobody beats ....................................................TEKTON.....They Rock!

I listen to 95% rock and classic rock (other 5% is HT).  My speaker journey over the last 25 years in my primary system is as follows:

B&W DM605, Martin Logan Montis, Golden Ear Triton Reference, Wilson Yvette, and Tekton Encore (tweeter upgrade)

The Tekton so far have been the best with rock music.  I do have Volti Razz in a secondary system, and when I move them to the main system they are below the Tektons in my opinion.

I’m 71 and I don’t find my Magico A3s too bright at all. I love them and wouldn’t trade them for anything, save maybe the A5. But I don’t think my dedicated room size is large is enough (or my wife’s tolerance 😆). Virtually all other equipment ie cables, DACs, power supplies, etc. all influence brightness too and you need to have a comb that fits your ear with any speaker. 

DeVore Fidelity or Sons Faber. 

For a non-fatigue audio system in your price range the components and cables will matter just as much as the speakers.

in this price range most components and speakers covered by high-end mags perform well. It’s attention to cables that will keep your audio system low ear fatigue. 

You make no mention of cables so I no idea what you are using now.

if you understand this honest audiophiles can provide more guidance.

if you are focusing on speakers only then good luck.

Vancouver BC is not far, and you might be able to hear a few speakers in your price range that are not available in Seattle to hear. With the currency exchange being very advantageous to US shoppers. I also recommend the Fink Team KIM, with the driver level adjustments on the rear of the speaker, you can help tailor the speaker to your room and your hearing preference. Liquid Sound in Vancouver has both the KIM and BORG E2 available.The KIM is slightly above your price zone but should be heard.

Have some fun!

Another vote for Goldenear triton reference. 

Once properly  set-up, they sound great! 

Very nice amp you have, I do class A myself, a Krell KSA150. Have you considered used Wilson Watt/Puppies? The 7’s can be had for under 10K and they rock and are not fatiguing to my ears. I also like ribbons and have older Apogees as well as Martin Logan CLS speakers. They all do things well in one area or another but I personally think the Wilson’s are the way to go, dynamic as all get out, great imaging and air around instruments and they can do power well if you like it that way. Good luck in your venture.

Most British speakers need too much power and you don’t have that!

Magico needs 100k front and even the junker A3! 
Devore Fidelity can run in tubes and Is voiced to be easy listening. See if you can find a used

O/96

@ OP -- If you are looking for the realistic natural sound and the speaker that reproduces the original music, check below information.

Say "Hello" repeat with below spkrs' sounds and hear your voice and speaker sound together.

When you listen an audio system at the show and people next to you talk a lot and you say "please shut off. Let me listen to the music." Right. Human can’t listen to a human voice (natural sound) and audio music (un-natural sound) together.

People go to a live band cafe and enjoy the live music (natural) and hear friend’s voice (natural) together without any problem.

Now say "Hello" repeat with below spkr sound and try hear your voice and speaker sound together.

This speaker sounds like a real human voice and you should find the speaker sounds like this. Alex/WTA

You think a 2 way speaker with a 6-7 inch woofer/mid is gonna be good for rock or metal? Maybe at 75db but not much more than that and sound full and impactful.

Hi mikhailark

Best of luck on your quest!  I'm surprised no one has mentioned the QLN Prestige Three.  This is a very non-fatiguing speaker that works well with all music.  We also just started carrying Accuphase and there is definitely synergy between QLN and accuphase.

My favorite quality of the QLN speakers is that they totally disappear into the room and they are one of the best speakers in terms of sound staging that I have ever heard.  At Axpona 2023, one of the most common things that people would say as they listened in our room was "it sounds like real music in hear"   They really do fill the entire room, much like you experience when you hear live music.  The sound stage is the whole room, not a little  20 foot circle between the speakers.

Anyway, I'm biased so take what I say with a grain of salt, but if you get a chance to listen to them, they might fit the bill for what you are looking for.

Cheers

James

My used Wilson Audio Watt/Puppy 8's paired with ML No. 436 Monoblock's are neither fatiguing nor forward. They are a paring made in heaven. I have no experience with the speakers you have mentioned, other than Focal, which I found too shrill or piercing. I listen primarily to female and male vocalist's, classic rock and large collection of "audiophile" pressings. I feel no need to for newer speakers or electronics.

Not my experience iwith Dynaudio at all. Focus was pretty good with rock/metal. The new Contours are not good with that music IMO. 

Dynaudio fits your description of what you want. The higher models.

Again going a little above the post price.
For about 5 years now, I have enjoyed a pair of Klipshorns with a Heresy center.
The trio biamped with a Mcintosh MC-206.
Never tiring.

I have to agree with many so far. 

The Borresen x3 are pretty killer in that price range. 

@hheedah - Yeah, I’ve seen plasma speakers back in 90’s. In fact, one of my relatives was a physicist and knew the company owner - don’t remember the name of the speaker though. Their entry level is already way over and buying used exotic with close to zero service availability... I’ll probably pass :-)

Yes, Legacy is something I am seriously considering. May need to invest in a serious dolly, as someone here suggested...

@mbmi - out of cusiosity, why do you think GR is a crapbox. Engineering appears sound and so are measurements. I have engineering and math background in signal processing so I can read charts and waterfalls and such. Can't find any measurements for Børresen and they seem to hide specs pretty deep in their Web site.

Some of Børresen engineering solutions appear to be questionable - ex, lots of small ports typically produce more port noise than one large port at the same port velocity…and that speaker has almost 100 ports? Two 4.5" woofers is about same as a single 6.5" driver, which is pretty small IMO and most probably require a decent sub. This takes the system way over $10K and I am not willing to spend more.

Also, there are no dealers close to PNW, nearest is in San Diego, I think. 

@mikhailark , thank you for the additional information.

That’s a nice big room, which imo implies that you will probably want fairly high voltage sensitivity for use with your 30-watt Pass Labs amp. You might consider speakers with a voltage sensitivity in the 94 dB ballpark. By way of comparison, this would put you in the same SPL ballpark as a pair of Revel Salon 2’s driven by 200 watts per channel.

When faced with the prospect of having to move fairly heavy speakers up and down driveways and stairs, I invested in a dolly with large pneumatic tires and nylon stair-skids. It wasn’t cheap, but I’ve gotten nearly two decades of use out of it for a variety of roles beyond moving speakers. Something like that might widen the range of options you can consider.

Another possibility is planning from the outset to use subwoofers for the bottom end, so that the size and weight can be distributed among multiple smaller loads, even if the total size and weight ends up being greater.

The Pi Speakers 3Pi with the Delta Pro 12 upgrade, or the 4Pi, plus at least two subs, are what I would suggest. Normally these are kits but I think Pi Speakers either has a builder or can put you in touch with one. The things I do are conceptually similar and imo Wayne Parham is a superb designer. The custom-designed horn he uses is excellent, and Wayne was one of my crossover-design teachers.

Duke