Non-fatiguing speakers in $10K range?

I own 14 pairs of various speaker brands...Usually when you have a non- fatiguing speaker, you loose some sparkle or detail....I own 1 pair that I will never sell....a very non- fatiguing speaker with super sparkle and super detail. I don’t know how they do it but they did it. I have heard $50,000 pr. speakers that don’t even compare to these $11,000 beauties. Looks...sound....dynamics...soundstage...WAF....sense of realism....they have it ALL. Thank you Audio Group Denmark for the Beautiful Borresen X-3’s in white. Good Luck to you !

what you are describing is the Franko Serblin sound from the earlier Sonus Fabers. Look for a pair either in a floor model or bookshelf model. Most of these are unfatiguing and can be listened to for hours. 

Try to find a pair of JBL L112

Proac and Verity come to mind as having less fatigue while still challenging the limits with detail. Be careful, if you get something to laid back you can get bored easily, at least I have a few times. 

@helomech no, I am simply asking for proof of your earlier post here:

Based on the measurements of most Legacy designs, I would steer clear of them. Plus their custom drivers are not as impressive as they’d like us to believe.

And I am still waiting for all of those plot links. I've found two online, of which one you already admitted was favorable. So, back up our claim or move on. 

If PBN, this looks like a great deal here

@audiom3 

It’s unhealthy and unbecoming to get so emotionally attached to material goods. 

It’s fine if you like Legacy speakers. However I won’t recommend them to anyone who wants a non fatiguing sound. It’s not like I’m going to alter your opinion, nor will you mine. Don’t let a silly hobby raise your blood pressure so much. 
 

Not on most radars, but you might want to do a little due diligence on Canadian made, PSB Speakers. I own TAD's now, but my first pair of reference speakers were the PSB Stratus Gold's, and they were nothing short of fantastic and extremely pleasing to listen to. I tried to better them with the following speakers and each one failed to bring the total qualities that the Stratus Gold's could deliver,

Vienna Acoustic Liszt

Focal Sopra 2

Wilson Sasha

Tekton Double Impact SE

The Synchrony T800 Towers are there flagship tower speaker, but I have heard both the Imagine line and the older Synchrony models, and all delivered smooth, dynamic sound that never was fatiguing at any listening level or any genre of music I played.

@helomech please don't cop out and pull the 'Google is your friend' to deflect your exaggerated response.  I asked you to point me to all of the measurements that you are referring to which say all Legacy speakers seemed flawed.

Speakers as tone controls?  Name one speaker that isn't a tone control!  All speakers, even what the beloved Amir uses (Revel Salon 2s), produce orders of magnitudes more distortion than any piece of gear/cable/tweak feeding them.  So yes, they are all tone controls.  Why do you think they all sound so differently?

I'll humor you for a bit and pretend there are tons of measured Legacy speakers with posted plots online (of which there are very, very few and most are the older Studio model).  The only flaw with Legacy is their tendency to be a bit heavy in the bass section.  And that has a lot to do with electronics I've found.  

I have also found that test tones, you know some of what our expert testers believe are everything, are not worth much.  I can flip a switch on the back of my Focus SEs which will attenuate bass response under 80Hz by 2dBs.  And it is bloody obvious when I enable/disable that attenuation when playing music.  But the praised REW software measured two identical charts.  It just couldn't detect the difference whatsoever with it's limited capabilities.  Plus, test tones are way different than the complexities of listening to music...which is what these things are designed to be listened with.

Børresen x2 if your room is on the small side. $8,800 new. 

@audiom3 

Google is your friend.

There is only one suite of measurements available online that show a decent performance, and that one is far from comprehensive so hard to say if there are problems outside its on-axis response. The rest of the measured speakers, whether recent or older, produce poor linearity and/or the crossovers fail to adequately suppress driver breakup.

Maybe their most recent designs were engineered by a different person, but there is no good excuse for speakers at those prices producing those sort of results, even two decades ago. It displays a poor regard for objective performance and perhaps hedging success on consumer ignorance.

It’s obvious you have some emotional investment in the brand because that’s where you chose to spend your money. I get it. Perhaps most of us would achieve better systems were we to learn how to decipher measurement graphs before handing over our hard earned cash. If you prefer a speaker that behaves as a tone control, that’s your prerogative. I’ve heard and owned many such designs and for me they always lead to fatigue after the honeymoon period expires, especially when the speaker’s peaks and valleys are the result of underdamped driver break up. But then I still possess the hearing acuity of a young man. I realize most participating on these boards are well past their auditory prime. 

Check out Gig Harbor Audio just outside Seattle…

Under 10k, they carry Graham, Audio Note, Devore and Roger’s in the non fatiguing category…

I’m partial to the Graham LS8/1 myself. Harbeths are nice but I feel the Grahams are rather more special

I'm still waiting on @helomech to point me to all of these published Legacy measurements which make him steer clear of this brand.  I see a couple very old reviews/measurements but nothing showing 'most Legacy models' as he put it.  Nothing even for any newer models.

Legacy speakers are many things, but fatiguing, they are certainly not.  I know because I've owned many models in my 25+ years ownership.  From the earliest models (Focus, Classic & Silverscreen), to the latest models (Focus SEs, Studio HDs (two pairs) and Silverscreen HD).

Hello,

I was in AXPONA 2024 and I’ve listening the Borresen. Good but…really no competition with what I’ve heard in the Grandinote’s room.

The speakers showed was over budget for your request (Mach 8XL it’s round 30k) but I’ve heard the Mach 4s and the Mach 2s and they sound pretty amazing with 37 Watt integrated class A amp (always from Grandinote, the Shinai). High efficiency, easy 8 ohm load, unique mechanical crossover…they definitely deserves some attention in my opinion.

I don’t know about a dealer in Seattle but it’s one in Chicago area. 

have a good listening! 😉

I second gdnrbob's recommendation on Vandersteens. The Treo CTs are available at a Dealer in Tacoma called High Note Audio. 

Reads like you’re looking for the perfect speakers. $10k on the used market should get you there. I bought an old pair of VA Strauss speakers for $2k that were so much fun despite lacking resolution expected from new speakers I nearly kept them. Since I have no experience with your amp or room acoustics I can only offer how I got there. Don’t spend more than you can resell for and start buying everything within driving distance you’re interested in. Nothing beats having a few months to demo a pair of speakers. Try to remember us and update this thread on your journey.

I can see you have received a great many recommendations for speakers that would fit your needs.  At the risk of adding yet another recommendation let me offer this.  You would like speakers that are non-fatiguing.  Yet I assume that you would still like transparency and detail.  My recommendation would be a pair of Vivid Audio Kaya K25 speakers.  I offer this recommendation because Vivid Audio speakers utilize something they refer to as an "exponential tapered tube absorber" behind each driver.  This technology really does reduce the distortions found in most speakers, that add up to listening fatigue. The K25 speakers from Vivid Audio are roughly in your price range and offer a huge sound, amazing transparency, and powerful bass.  I can't offer any speaker more highly!   

Visit The Audio Connection in the U-district... John should be able to accommodate you. He carries Monitor Audio - which I find to be very non-fatiguing, although I ended up getting a pair of Chapman T-7s from him a couple years ago.

FR10 would be on my list. 

between 10 and 20K >>

@ditusa - it says "performance of horns can be achieved", not that the speaker employs (or sounds like) horns. In that sense Revel (or few others) are "horns" because they use tweeter inside a waveguide... :-)

After all, I own them and they don't sound like horns at all. Typical British sound.

GoldenEar T66, Magnepan 3.7 (only if you have a Maggie-friendly room), KEF LS-60, Monitor Audio Gold 200. Any of those will fit your requirements, and they couldn’t be more different: a fully powered system, the LS-60s, the hybrid T-66, a traditional passive speaker with the G200s; and the dipole quasi-ribbon panels that make Magnepans unlike anything you’ve likely ever owned. Personally, if you have the room for them, I’d go.with the Magnepans. They will make your jaw drop on a regular basis.

PROAC

@mm1tt77 - Looking at Revel Salon 2, it sounds nice actually, but I have concern with 86 Db sensitivity while my amp is technically 30W Class A (although Accuphase does spec 60 and even 120 W to 2 Ohms, I guess class AB). F328Be appears to be 91 Db, but may people prefer Salon 2 sound.

"Classic rock, hard rock, 80s new wave, punk, pop (classic and modern)". I like these genres too. The frustrating thing is often these recordings sound better on car stereos and headphones than they do on high end systems. For example, about 15 years ago I heard Atmosphere by Joy Division in my mom's car. It sounded great, lively with great frequency extension. Not on my stereo systems, nope, sounds lifeless and dull. If you turn up the volume to liven it up and hear some of the inner details that I heard in the car, it just hurts my ears.

So to find a system or speakers that work well with that music/recordings. It is a challenge for sure. Speakers aside, maybe try a tube DAC or a source that is going to send a warm signal through the system. I have the Klipsch Cornwall IVs, they say it is a great rock speaker. I don’t know, I have had my challenges with it. Getting a Tube DAC (Black Ice Audio) and damping the mid horn and tweeter sure has helped. For example, playing The Stone Roses now, sounds pretty darn good, before it sounded dull, lifeless and harsh, almost unlistenable. It doesn’t sound like Roxy Music’s Avalon or Dark Side of the Moon, but it was a lot more enjoyable than before. I would only recommend the Cornwall IV if you are willing do the work. Two other speakers that are easy on the ears and good with the music the OP likes are the Wharfedale Lintons and the Polk Audio R700s. Neither are nowhere near the 10 grand mark. I haven’t heard them but I have heard great things about the Rosso Fiorentina Certaldo 2, from their description they sound like what you may be looking for.

@ditusa Tannoy D700 are concentrics, not horns to any extent.

Any Harbeth speaker. Most fatigue free speaker I’ve ever owned. 

Agreed, but having owned 30.2XDs and as a current owner of 40.3XDs I would not recommend Harbeth for the OP's rock-centric music preferences.

Another "yes" nod to the Vandersteen Treo CTs, but they are passive speakers so if thunderous floor-shaking bass if your aim, you might want to add a subwoofer...or spend more on the Quatro Wood CTs but that requires double your $10k budget. As an owner of the Treo CTs, they are are very "musically" true and go well in a medium / large room where the speakers can have some "air" around them. Good luck to you.

Give Paradigm Founders series a look. I recently went on an exhaustive speaker search. I listened to B&W 702s side by side to a pair of Founders 100Fs. I had in my my that I was going to buy the B&W s but the Paradigms were much better in my opinion. Alot less bright. Better low end. I wasn't looking at Founders at the time, they just happened to be at the dealer I went to to check out the B&Ws. I then thought I better do some more looking. I checked out sonus faber, dali, kef, etc in the 7k price range at different dealers. I brought home a pair of golden ear triton 1s that were on clearance. They were nice but a bit bright to me.  I too listen mainly to classic rock and metal.  I delve into rap, jazz and about anything else on occasion so I like bass to be solid, smooth mids and not too bright highs. I ended up with the Paradigm 100f s, which I quickly traded in when the Paradigm 120Hs were marked down 15 or 20 % around new years. I got them for about 7.5k.  They now retail around 10. They  are amazing.  Check out there specs.  Solid build. Made in Canada.  They have 3-8" active woofers each. 1000w internal amps. And have ARC room correction. Which did wonders for my less than perfect room. They fill a large room nicely. Sound good wherever you sit.  My chair is obviously the sweet spot but I find that off axis listening is good too. Paradigm also has the Pesrona series which look better and  cost more. I have not heard them though.  Anyway....worth a look. Good luck!

Tannoy Gold Reference series, the best you can buy for 10k and Accuphase is a renoun classic pairing.

Now, music-wise I do not listen to jazz or classical or vocals, sorry. Classic rock, hard rock, 80s new wave, punk, pop (classic and modern) and African blues like Tinariwen. People tend to insta-suggest forward sounding speakers - you like metal, right???. But I don’t like piercing sound and I rarely go to concerts exactly because of this. I listen to AC/DC but NOT at ’realistic’ revels. I like rhythm, melody, but I don’t care about 120 Db.

Considering your tastes in music, you shouldn’t be taking any speaker advice from guys who listen to female vocals/Diana Krall @ 60 db... Metal/Hard Rock are harder genres to obtain a high fidelity listening experience with choice of gear. As a long time fan of hard rock & metal myself, it took me a while to get that sorted out. Guys who know nothing about such genres are the ones who come up with Klipsch, etc. The latter is a lousy speaker for metal, in reality.

If you want your hard rock and metal to be "high fidelity" (and also do justice to your 80s new wave and pop)... a couple of speakers that are above your budget comes to mind.... But, not to fret, you probably won’t be able to beat the GR Research "Bully" for your money. If you are not a DIY guy (it is cheaper if you can DIY the kit), it appears that you can obtain a finished Bully from GR research for 5k to 6k now with the finish of your choice, i.e. 4k under your budget. Good luck with your search...

I have the Harbeth C7ES-XD. For Classical, Jazz and Pop they are wonderful. 
I found in my room they have plenty of deep tight bass. I actually sold my two REL T/5X subs. I’ve listen to the 30s and the 5+ and liked the C7s the best. They have the most open airy sound of the bunch but all Harbeths are extremely fatigue free and scale up the better the down stream equipment. Wonderful midrange and smooth highs. Vocals are life like. I love British speakers and have owned Quad, Kef,  B&W and ATC. Harbeth to me are best and most fatigue free. 

Vandersteen Treo. Beautiful build quality and design, very natural without harshness. Haven't heard em, but wonder how PS Audio FR 10's would hold up to your needs. They're on a significant sale right now.

+1 @jfrmusic

Surprised that you’re the only one to suggest Harbeths. Every speaker in the line is voiced beautifully. I have little tolerance for high-end anomalies and the Harbeth "ruler-flat" response curve does the trick for me. No matter what electronics I've thrown at them over the years, they’re always smooth as fine cognac.

And despite middling sensitivity, they’re an easy load to drive & relatively tolerant to room placement, and their post-BBC thin-wall design makes them fairly compact & lightweight. Lots of selling points.

@alvinnir2 mentioned that he liked his Harbeth CS7ES3s, but bemoaned their lack of bass (bottoming out in the 40-45Hz range). I think he’s right on the money there, esp. given the OP’s emphasis on rock/metal. But keep in mind that the CS7 is one of Harbeth’s bookshelf models, currently selling in the $4-5K range. My own pair, mated with a good sub & amp, shake the floor & produce painful sound levels in my 14x17 room. The many Harbeth reviews in Stereophile & TAS suggest that most Harbeth models have similar voicing, differing mainly in dynamics & low-end. The larger models, especially those in the OP’s price range, might do the job for the OP in an average-sized room, even without a sub.

GoldenEar Triton Reference based on my experience with the speaker. Great value for money and Class A rated on Stereophile. No listening fatigue for me.
 

also another speaker to look at is the Boressen X series, excellent speakers punch way above their price point.

Try the monitor audio gold 200 G3 that AMT Tweeter is very non-fatiguing and very three-dimensional and opened has a very enveloping sound stage makes you feel like you're right in the middle of the performance.They're in your price range, and for a little bit more money the platinum 200 G3 is even better.

The Pacific Audio Fest is coming on September 6th. If you can wait that long it would be an excellent opportunity to get a better idea of your options.

So many speaker recommendations but you really need to go out and listen if you can. You have not mentioned anything about the room. How big is it? Will you be able to have the speakers ideally placed out in the room or must they be close to a wall. 

A few years ago I was also  shopping for new speakers with a budget of $10K. I went out and listened  to everything I could locally, with a preset notion of what I was likely to like and buy . My musical tastes tend towards rock, blues, and fusion jazz so not so far from yours.

I ended up getting the rather inexpensive new KLH5s To my surprise and my ears, I found them the most pleasing. I too have a sensitivity to brightness but the brightness content can vary from recording to recording so I use a Shitt Loki mini equalizer in the effects loop of my CJ preamp.

I set it such that when I have a recording that needs the brightness tamed, I just use the remote to kick it in and voila .....brightness gone.

Someone posted Harbeth as a recommendation. I can only opine that I had a pair of the Compact 7 ES3 at one time. A lovely speaker that was not bright but it did not have the bass extension or dynamics to "Rock",, They would be lovely with classical or jazz however. A friend has a pair of Wilson MAxx. They can sound very good but they are huge and very costly to ship and sell if you don't like them so prepare to be married to them.

Now didn’t you open up Pandoras Box ! Lol

speakers always become fabulous threads with amazing talking point. That’s why we all love this great hobby

That being said; I’ll give my comments. I also did some searching about 2 years ago. I loved the Farbers, just felt they lacked in bottom end at the price point they were at. Legacy I felt lacked detail in some way though they did sound great. I was close to pulling trigger on Cantons and then found PBN Audio offered the best speaker for the money and frequency ranges and crossover point that checked all the boxes. Peter hand builds every speaker himself and offers any and all finishes you could desire. I settled on the M1!5. They have (2) 12s and a beautiful horn. The crossover itself is artwork. Peter makes a smaller version with (2) 8s and a different tweeter. Just my thoughts here but something from left fouled never hurts

Another close out of state option is Oregon.  I have dealt with Jeff at Metafi audio in Lake Oswego.  He is a straight ahead guy with some interesting and quality options.  He also gets a good selection of used gear that is often in 9/10 or 10/10 condition and he is able to offer good pricing deals. 

I am very surprised to find myself writing this, but I recently bought a pair of Volti Razz speakers, and I can't get over how much I like them. What is surprising me is the upper midrange and tweeter. I kind of braced myself for enjoying the dynamics (which I really wanted in my room), but paying the price in, I dunno - aggression? 

But it hasn't been that way at all. I use a Class A, all tube 60 wpc amp (Zesto Bia), and I think the combo sounds wonderful. I am very sensitive to a forward or bright sound, but a friend swore I'd be surprised. They can be had for $7500 in a lovely wood finish, or save $2000 and paint them yourself (which is what I did). Horns do rock, which I know you want. But these do not hurt you while doing so...

Any Harbeth speaker. Most fatigue free speaker I’ve ever owned.