At the same time I had those my dad had a pair of the legacy signatures (first generation) and the VMPS blew those away in every department. But that isnt a really fair comparison but it does say a lot for the VMPS competency
No love for Legacy Audio
Hello all. I have been on a few discussions here and read many more. I have not seen many of the posters here talk much about Legacy Audio speakers. I am referring to the Signature SE model and the Focus SE model. I am curious why people don’t seem to like them as much as several other brands that get talked about much more here. What is it you like better about the ones you are consistently raving about. Thank you.
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@steve59 I once had a pair of the VMPS tower II special editions and I loved them. One of the most stunningly competent speakers I have ever heard. The Focus SEs appear to me from just comparing the speaker complement and specs to be as close to them in performance as is possible out of what is available on todays market. Though since the SEs are a more updated design, they are probably noticeably better than the VMPS
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I always try to chime in to Legacy threads and say the same things. I've only owned Legacy since I began my hi-fi journey over 25 years ago. Before that, I had tried a pair of low-end Yamahas, B&W and Wharfedale. I still own a pair of vintage B&W DM2000s and they still sound very good but they're distant spares, so I rarely listen to them anymore. Otherwise, I am all Legacy. Started with OG Classics in the latter 90s, moved up to OG Focus years later and now current model Focus SEs. The Focus have gotten smaller over the years but I get why some say they're still big speakers. I am fortunate to have a large-ish listening room so they can really breathe. I also have Legacy's Silverscreen HD center channel and my Classics now serve as surrounds. No surround rot or anything after 26 years! And so far, I have two Studio HDs for Atmos. The Studio HDs are really difficult to find out in the wild. I am looking for another pair to complete my setup. But not budgeting $2400/pair for Atmos speakers, no way. Legacy are all-around good speakers. Great for 2-channel and just as great, if not even greater for 5.1 music and full HT speakers. I've always been about 70/30 HT to music but it can go as low as 50/50 depending on where I'm at in tweaks or whatever motivates me. One thing to note is their resale value is poor in the beginning. I think it takes a good 10-15 years to finally hit bottom and then start climbing back up. But I couldn't care less about resale. I suspect I am in the minority there as I don't flip speakers very often. |
I owned a pair of Signature SEs for a few years. I thought they would be my end game speaker. I was particularly impressed with their air motion tweeter and ability to be placed close to the wall due to their sealed enclosure. Over time they seemed to be missing something. For large speakers with two big woofers they seemed to be lacking in bass. Also the lower mid-range seemed to have a hole in it. I experimented with placement but they sounded the same. I was driving them with a 400 watt McIntosh amp. One day after owning them for 3 years or so, I pulled out my old Green Mountain Chromas from storage. These are stand mounted monitors Much, much better in every respect but the tweeter. I sold the Signature SEs. Eventually I bought Kef Reference 1s and used the Chromas in another system. I wondered what I was thinking when I bought them. I wanted to like them
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Just an update, I've dialed in my Legacy Audio Empires better, now they are great for music. In particular electronic, rap, pop, and acoustic music sounds huge on them. I'll probably never part with these as long as they're functional, they're SO good for dance music & movies/video games. Like I said, Tie Fighters sound like they flying over you. Also surprised how much low end I'm able to get out of them with EQ for being open baffle, no need for sub, but I guess having 6 12 inch woofers helps with that. For the price these (very rarely) show up, I cant think of bigger sounding speakers that still have good sound quality. I think the fist full of large woofers helps make these compete with modern systems by helping keep harmonic distortion relatively low for a system thats 25 years old. I really wish Legacy would make another open baffle in this style again with analog crossovers. The newer ones look nice (and sounded good when I heard them at Axpona too), but I'm not interested being tied to their digital crossover and conversion system. I'd like to mix and match amps & DACs with my speakers. |
It is why i boasted myself here more about my room acoustic homemade than about my gear choices... People think that reading the user manual of an amplifier is knowledge... It is so evident that acoustic is the heart of audio not electronic design so good it is... Psycho-acoustics is the blood in the acoustic heart.... The rest is marketing... And small room acoustics is very different from great hall acoustic... Same science two completely different architecture and installation ...Two specialities ...
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I have the Focus XD for eight months now. They are great speakers Very live and dynamic sounding. I owned quite a few speakers in the past and they were all floor standing. None of them can compete with the XD on dynamics and bass. Music just sounds live through the XD. Transient speed is unbelievably fast. |
Back when I was brand new to 2ch audio, I heard a friend’s Legacy Signature III setup. It was one of my first exposures to "real" hifi with turntable source and quality separates (BAT 6H30 tube preamp, Parasound Halo JC1 amps). I really loved it - such a fun, engaging listen! A year later I got my opportunity to buy those same Signature III’s - and having NO idea what I was doing, pieced together my first "serious" 2ch system, including a Sunfire 600 Signature amp and BAT VK5i pre. Wow, was I excited to fire it up! Then (drumroll)...wow, it sounded pretty awful! I significantly improved things by ditching the Sunfire (eventually landing on my friend’s JC-1’s), but it never surpassed "mediocre" enough to justify its expense. Chalked the experience up to a bad room / apartment, and listed the Signature III’s for sale. A local fellow contacted me, wanting to hear them first. Damn! They were already boxed up, and I knew he’d lose interest upon demo - but I obliged and set them on the long wall (the very wall I’d avoided due to "conventional" acoustic wisdom). Upon setup, my jaw dropped! All the fun sound from that first listen at my friend’s was back...and then some. I was genuinely impressed, the buyer was very impressed (of course he bought them immediately), and then I was sad I’d unlocked their potential literally 5 minutes before they walked out the door forever :( But I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for Legacy! The rosewood finish was truly gorgeous, too. I’d seen a lot of wood veneers that don’t hold a candle to Legacy’s work. |
I'm a Whisper owner...and they're the best speaker I've heard in any of my spaces! Pacing, detail, and proper volume of different instruments in the mix is uncanny!!!! They create a ...hate to say it...a holographic space! Oh and I have the original ones...so it used the Step One processor which serves me now as decorative signage, I've found that Audyssey MultEQ-X with REW does a much better job. Now if I went to a Wavelet 2 that may be a different story. Loving these "Dream" speakers and my sweet spot it alot bigger! |
I have a pair of Legacy Audio Empires. Although they have a large soundstage they are not my favorite for music, however they are great for movies and games. Dialog and soundstage sounds big, Tie Fighters sound like they’re flying over and passed you. With EQ to boost the lows explosions have a lot of punch too even without a subwoofer, which I was surprised considering they’re open baffle . Out of curiosity I called them and ask them a few years ago if they have replacement components for them and they said they even still have replacement drivers for them. The speakers are 30 years old and weren’t huge sellers at the time yet I can still get some support from the company if something goes wrong, I think that says a lot about them. |
@big_greg You are correct. The Focus speakers are made for larger rooms. My room was specially built to accommodate them at a smaller size (those 4 wall built-in bass traps). Just keeping them away from the side and rear walls is important and alleviates too much bass (overload). I'm sorry Legacy, but the original Focus are better than the SE and superior to the HD (tweeters mounted in the wrong direction). The 20/20 has a more difficult to drive low impedance (2.2 ohms versus 2.8 ohms in the bass) but otherwise should sound nearly the same. |
@backdoor Okay, there are several comments about Legacy speakers which are either wrong or unusual. As a 20 year owner of the original Focus and Signature IIIs (2 rooms), they are NOT designed for corner placement with sharp angles direction to the listener. My 3 friends with Sig IIIs and 2 with Focuses have them 8’ to 9’ apart (mine are 8’ center to center) slightly towed in (2 straight ahead). One uses it for monitoring (Better Records). They are highly accurate speakers, not the ultimate in resolution, quite coherent for a 7 driver, 4.5 crossover system. They are used bargains, easy to drive, even with a 35 watt 8 ohms (20hz-20Khz)/50 watt 4 ohms Yamaha CR620 receiver. My issue with the Focus is their flat front baffle (as well as Harbeths) which keep the sound emanating from the box; hence, the speakers don’t disappear. Also, the second problem (worse for me) is the single person optimal seating. My friends who have Von Schweikert speakers have incredible seating and disappearing speakers with all the attributes of the Legacy lower end speakers but at significantly higher cost. I intend to replace my Focus with the ultimate speaker for my listening room being the Ultra 7. Possibly Marten Parker Quintet 2 or VS Ultra 55 passive (I considered the VS VR9 SE Mk2 but it is too huge for my 20’ X 15’ X 10’ room and weighs 600 lbs each). I’m also going to audition the Aequo Audio Adamantis. I suggest you pull your speakers out at least 2’, possibly 3’ from the wall to give it air and spaciousness. The bass needs room (this is so unlike my friend’s VS VR35 export which is designed to be placed against or with 1’ of the rear wall). Also, they would be in front of your equipment stand. Try angling them slightly (I mean from 1/4" to 2" max). @kota is correct that room treatment would greatly improve your enjoyment. Even my living room system which is open on one side and windowed doors on the other, has front and rear thick tufted wall treatments (decorative). The Sig IIIs have that rear tweeter and disappear better. I hope I’ve helped you. 2 pair of Hallographs would also help immensely but are costly, 2 in the front wall corners and two in the middle between you and the speakers angled toward the speakers. As a former commercial real estate appraiser with 17 studio appraisals, I saw two pairs of Focuses used in studios for the benefit of rock musician playback and one pair in a recent photo of a large professional studio. All pointing straight forward and not near any walls. |
@hickamore My Focus (original) have tremendous bass and slam. I have a custom built listening room with built in activated carbon bass traps in all walls and the room was designed for 6 12" woofers. They can shake the room with bass depending on the recording (like George Wright-Hot Pipes), using only an EAR 890 70 watt tube amp. I have much experience listening to subs in friends homes. However, three friends own Signature IIIs (and I do in my living room) and another two Focus. The new Focus models use twice the magnet weight which may slow down the bass. Those cheaper, lighter bass drivers of the original Focus move air faster and punchier. |
I chicken out every time. Last year I nearly pulled the trigger on a black ash Aeris trade in when a pair of kef blades came up 15 minutes from my house for the same price. I'll own a pair some day but I think my 3500 cu/ft room is too small for the aeris, and they are the speakers that interest me. |
I have Focus SEs in walnut and one speaker has bubbling veneer on three sides, the speaker is under warranty, but I come to realize now I pay for shipping to fix what clearly is a manufacturing defect. This may be normal in the industry (not smart enough to know) but unexpected and disappointing on many levels. New speaker with bubbling veneer on three sides? How does that leave the factory? And now I have to pay to ship this beast. $300, maybe more? It makes me think the lack of love for Legacy may be based on actual customer experience. |
I have the Calibre XD’S and am really happy. I bought the passive version originally and was running them with a Rogue Cronus Magnum. At 90.5 db and 100 wpc they sounded really good, but Bill Dudelston told me they liked a lot of power and said they would have a lot more/better bass and presence with the XD amps. I took his advice and man was he right. I upgraded them to XD’S and have the bass powered by the 750 wpc ICE amps and the mids/highs by the Rogue. Very impressive presence, slam, air and and soundstage. I listen to a lot of jazz and they really do a great job with that genre. If you want to rock out they can with authority. Drawbacks? Sure, I have to take some metal candleholders off the walls because they rattle too much when I crank the Calibres and my wife has accused me of violating her noise ordinance a few times. I had a guy do a master set with them and it did wonders for the imaging and soundstage. They sound spacious and smooth at moderate volumes as well. Future plans are a Wavelet and if possible, Aeris or Focus XD in a few years. I’m a Legacy fan. |
Well, I have a pair of Focus SE’s in my main system driven by Plinius amps and a Holo Audio DAC and I can tell you my system sounds amazing. I also have a pair of Signature III’s in my second system paired with an integrated tube amp and it sounds great as well. I don’t really care what anyone else thinks. To me the Legacy’s are special, especially when paired with high quality amps. No subs required! |
I have a friend with Legacy Signature SE. They really fill his room with rich, airy sound. Those were the speakers that reignited my interest in the hobby six years ago. They still sound great. I love my Tektons, but still enjoy his awesome system. Good synergy in his room. He runs them with a 15k McIntosh integrated, VPI Prime and Soundsmith Paua cart. Magnificent. Sounds almost as good as my room. |
I am driving my signature se with parasound a21+ for LF and Rouge ST100 Dark for the HF with a Don Sachs 2 preamp. I think they sound exceptional in my 21x17x8 room. I think I mentioned in earlier post that I could not imagine a 9k per pair sounding better in my environment. Soundstage, separation of instruments, clarity - basically all the characteristics I enjoy the most are all there. They are fairly large but I did not think too much so. I traded a pair of Polk Legend 600 which is the second best speaker I have owned. So, my experience level is nowhere near most that post on this forum but I liked the polks a lot and the Legacy’s even more. Someday maybe I’ll be fortunate enough to hear some of the other high enders that I hear about but until then the Legacy’s will stay put. By the way, I have heard some Focal floorstanders, Martin Logan 60xti, Goldenear and a couple others so I’m not totally in the dark. I also plan to attend Axpona so hopefully I can hear some other very good ones there.
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Have Signature SE's in an open floor plan but the main listening area is 22 x 15 x 9 or so. They were my favorites among a selection of speakers costing more than two times as much. I needed a speaker that could be very near a rear wall so ported speakers were not ideal. Drive them with a Prima Luna HP Dialogue integrated amp. They are quite efficient at 92 dB and the two 10" woofers supply a wonderful presence to music that dips into the low frequencies. Hard to find a place to listen to them but worth the journey as they offer excellent value, competing with much more expensive speakers. |
@mikekollar, FYI I'm a clam and I'm not happy. None of the clams I know are happy. |
I have a pair of first-generation Focus. Went to Sangamon to pick them up. Folks were super friendly. They are big and heavy. After trying to set them up in many rooms and with different amps I was about ready to give up. The bass was hard to get right. I was bi-amping with a Legacy amp (Coda) on the woofs and MFA 120C on the tops. I switched to Maggies then CAR T1.3, but recently hooked them up in a new room with a Pioneer SX-1250. WOW! Incredible sound. Right now they are being driven by a modern Pioneer home theatre receiver that I bought for like 100USD from ABC warehouse, and the room is an old cabin with a vaulted ceiling, sounds wonderful. |
Heard the Focus SE Speakers. They have ballsy grunt that remains clean. Nicely finished furniture grade speakers. Cabinets at one time were made by the Omish people in I think Indiana. DO NOT hold me to that. Then Legacy moved to Macgungie, Pa where the cabinets were made by the Omish in Lancaster, Pa. They then moved back to their original manufacturing facility. The speakers are imposing to the eye and too proposing for my ear. One could be pleased with them if in a very large room if you have a large wallet. I always thought the Legacy Classic gave the most value. |
rbrannenBill Dudleson was making a commit on one of his podcasts that when he first released the Signatures he gave them to a buddy that owned a recording studio. After a month or so Bill was talking to him and ask about the speakers. He was told "Their GREAT. But we need about 10 more db. for our usage". That is when Bill got to work designing the Focus SE's. What you say makes perfect sense. And I love mine ! |
@mikekollar agree with Mike, I live just north of LA and was in the market for a new system but had around a 10 to 12k budget for speakers and about another 5 to 8k for electronics. I spent several weeks auditioning multiple speakers with names you would all be familiar with and before I auditioned with legacy speakers I was deeply disappointed and even depressed at what I had to pay to get realistic sound pressure levels and bass that can slam. I’m a drummer and listen to mainly instrumental prog fusion and electronic and listening to speakers between 10 and 25k left me realizing I would need to invest in sub woofers and significant amplification to get the sounds where I needed it to be. My last stop was at a local Legacy dealer and when I first started the audition we played the signature SEs and I said those won’t do, please move to the Focus XDs and that was every thing I had been looking for without having to invest in electronics or sub woofers. I’m blown away at how these speaks can be driven at all volume levels and produce amazing sound pressure levels while presenting warm accurate sound stage and instrument reproduction. I’m in love with my system, Focus XDs with Wavlet 2 and MAC mini with Roon |
I owned the Legacy SEs for a few years. I loved the sound of the tweeter. It was very alive and natural. Gradually, I fell out of love. With acoustic music the imaging and center fill were just off and I couldn’t correct it with repositioning. I discovered this problem when my second cheaper system sounded way better with a new dac. In comparison the Legacies just could not deliver the realistic imaging and palpability from that better new dac that the mor modest system did.The bass also sounded wrong. It may have partly been a room issue, but I couldn’t fix it. I replaced them with kef references 1s. |
I recently traded a fully active pair of Calibres for a custom pair of Signature SE. They have the new upgraded midrange driver that is seen in the picture of the XD version. Mine don't have the internal amp, but are tri-wire, tri-amp capable with crossover between woofers and midrange, and between midrange and tweeter assembly handled by the Wavelet 2. I drive them with 6 channels of a D-sonic M3a-4000. Really terrific sounding speakers with great flexibility. |
I will add that for the longest time the perception among the vast majority of high-end 'philes was that Legacy were bombastic mid-fi monsters not far off from the present day with Tekton. The prevailing philosophy was that high-end loudspeakers had two or three driver units and cross-over points and that the drivers had to be expensive from a well known producer-most in Scandinavia-with a tower or stand mount configuration. Admittedly, that snobbishness and broad predilection was misplaced and inaccurate. But it did persist throughout most of the 80's and 90's and well into the oughts. |
Just a quick little update; whether it means anything or not, I have no clue. I just got an email from Legacy saying that "The absolute sound" has just awarded Legacy with their 2022 editors choice for 4 of their speakers, The Signature speaker was not included but its big brother the Focus was one of the four. I also learned that the Signature SE is now available as a Signature XD (internal sub amplification).
The broader point being that yes, these guys do get some press!
Also... I have no idea what the "nail on the head" post above is all about |
Well it seems that I hit the nail right on the head. That didn't take long.. How many post were erased by members and how many by the people that WORK for AG. The wrong people are erasing the members post.. They still haven't figured WHO pays the bills.. Strange WE haven't seen the registered mail being received yet by the owner. Maybe a process server is a better idea, you know the BOSS gets the goods then.. |
@mikekollar What's the ceiling height in the 20 x 17 listening room? I'd want a dedicated cathedral for the Aeris. @vinylvalet My Legacys are forever, but of course I keep every scrap of original packaging in pristine condition and will leave a note re Agon Marketplace and Echo Logistics for my estate administrator.
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I think early on I considered legacy a 1 owner with a table saw in his garage and a RadioShack across the street, same as vmps, couldn’t help it. I think legacy has improved their image and are more than a bunch of woofers in a box. Axpona before covid the aeris and valor(I think) sounded amazing and looked impeccable |
