That sounds like unusual behavior for pair of speakers - especially for those. Try to use an equalizer (component) sound field processor, or the equalizer app on a smartphone/laptop. If you are able to correct the anomalies, then your speakers have issues. I would recommend this test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKdEoiNyyZcalso check for the burn in test (for headphones) also works for speakers. |
I hate to say it because I'm a Prima Luna fan (have an EL34/KT88 integrated). But they don't extend as well as a good SS amp. Gold Lyon KT88s helped but switching to SS works better.
Make your room more lively, put KT88s in you amp and that is the best you can do. To tell you the truth Maggie 1.7s don't have the best tweeter, you'll need 3.7s for that but you can get them to work reasonably well. |
@nayles02
Strip out the Anti Cables speaker cables and try running just the panels alone with any decent speaker wire that you have to hand...
If that improves matters try replacing the IC’s as well...
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A cursory glance shows the amp has what - 8, 4, 2 Ohm outputs. If you're on 8 Ohm, try the others.
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Thank you for the responses.
- Using an EQ does help, but introduces it's own set of undesirealbe sonic characteristics.
- I would hope my Pass Labs gear would be considered good SS...yet still unacceptable in the high frequencies, and only marginally better than the Prima Luna gear on the 1.7i's.
- I have a pair of LRS's who's high frequencies are vastly superior to the 1.7i's??
- Swapped out the AntiCables with some Canare interconnects and Mogami speaker cables...sounded worse.
- I've tried all the settings variations on the PrimaLuna's 8, 4, and 2 ohm, and high & low bias.
The funny/bonus thing is the harsh poorly recorded music sounds better than any of my reference audiophile recordings on the 1.7i's. I may keep them just for that gem of an attribute. |
Have you tried using the stock u-shaped jumper in place of your anticables attenuator? Seems a likely culprit.... |
I would think there is a problem with the speakers. 9 DB down in the highs? If the LRS sounds good on the same equipment in the same room, something wrong with the 1.7s. |
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Getting good measurements of large dipole loudspeakers is not trivial. By way of example, John Atkinson uses a fairly sophisticated quasi-anechoic measurement technique and you can see his frequency response measurement of the Magnepan LSR on this page, Figure 2: https://www.stereophile.com/content/magnepan-lrs-loudspeaker-measurements Compare that with the frequency response Amir Majidmehr of Audio Science Review recorded using a state-of-the-art, hundred-thousand dollar computer-controlled Klippel measurement system, second graph in the first post on this page: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/magnepan-lrs-speaker-review.16068/ There is so little resemblance between those two curves that you’d never suspect they were the same loudspeaker. And imo conspicuous by its absence is the "in room" curve that John Atkinson normally runs, perhaps because he was unable to get good data using his normal in-room-curve measurement technique. My point being, it is extremely unlikely that casual non-gated in-room measurements made with a spectrum analyzer are "accurate" when there is major inconsistency between far more sophisticated, industry-standard measurement techniques. This is a situation where I would say, trust your ears far more than you trust your measurements. Duke |
I have a pair of 1.7is. I recommend until you are very familiar with the Maggies and sort this issue out, that you run them only on solid state equipment. I have not looked up the specs on those Pass Labs monoblocks. But I would use those and the Pass Labs solid state preamp. I would put back in the stock steel plate jumper for now. Also check the fuses to make sure they aren’t blown. Make sure all your cable connections are good ones. Play music that is well recorded. Examples would be Steely Dan Aja and Goucho. If there still is a problem call Magnepan. Normally the highs aren’t as big an issue as the lack of bass impact. When yiu get this sorted there are other modifications that would make a difference. |
andrewmg7 posts07-28-2021 5:56pmHave you tried using the stock u-shaped jumper in place of your anticables attenuator? Seems a likely culprit....
I'll try that. thx |
kingdeezie46 posts07-28-2021 6:05pmI would think there is a problem with the speakers. 9 DB down in the highs? If the LRS sounds good on the same equipment in the same room, something wrong with the 1.7s.
Agreed |
ps576 posts
07-28-2021 6:40pmCheck the tweeter fuses?
Fuses look good. |
audiokinesis2,592 posts07-28-2021 8:27pmGetting good measurements of large dipole loudspeakers is not trivial.
My point being, it is extremely unlikely that casual non-gated in-room measurements made with a spectrum analyzer are "accurate" when there is major inconsistency between far more sophisticated, industry-standard measurement techniques. This is a situation where I would say, trust your ears far more than you trust your measurements.
Duke
The ears are telling me the highs are significantly truncated, and the analyzer confirms what I'm hearing. |
kingbarbuda289 posts07-28-2021 8:45pmI have a pair of 1.7is. I recommend until you are very familiar with the Maggies and sort this issue out, that you run them only on solid state equipment. I have not looked up the specs on those Pass Labs monoblocks. But I would use those and the Pass Labs solid state preamp. I would put back in the stock steel plate jumper for now. Also check the fuses to make sure they aren’t blown. Make sure all your cable connections are good ones. Play music that is well recorded. Examples would be Steely Dan Aja and Goucho. If there still is a problem call Magnepan. Normally the highs aren’t as big an issue as the lack of bass impact. When yiu get this sorted there are other modifications that would make a difference.
Yes, the Pass gear sounds better than the PrimaLuna for sure. I'm not lacking any bass. In fact the base is what i'm most impressed with. I called Magnepan this morning. Still awaiting a response. Thx. |
You’ve had these Magnepans for 5 days. (I’ve been listening to Magnepans, almost exclusively for 40 years.). What speakers were you listening to before the Manepans? Could it be that you (your ears/brain) had become used to unnaturally bright tweeters and the more natural tonal balance of the Maggie sounds dull? ( Of course, this argument doesn’t account for your measurements. When it comes to the pleasure of listening to recorded music, I place more importance on my own subjective aural experience than I do on measurements.) |
Maggies are very sensitive to positioning. You might try them with the tweeters on the inside and tilted towards you. Just put CD cases behind the back legs. Make sure they are several feet from the rear wall and try various angles. But in general, you shouldn't be seeing that kind of rolloff on the top end so it is possible something is defective with the tweeters. |
Have you checked the working of your spectrum analyser with different speakers? |
Agreed with a few others,try the stock jumper.
I use stock Maggie 1.7i, PrimaLuna tube preamp, SS Bel Canto monoblocks, and highs sound great. (Have not, however, done a freq analysis) |
The question is did you listen to these before purchasing them, and, if you did, what kind of electronics were used. Also, what kind of speakers did you have before? My take is that the somewhat soft PrimaLuna, combined with the somewhat soft Maggies and a possibly unfriendly acoustic in your room is possibly the problem.
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Maggies aren't for precision at all and by all possible means useless for studios. Their design is reflection of engineering, science and experimenting, but not accuracy by very far. |
Maggies aren't for precision at all and by all possible means useless for studios. Their design is reflection of engineering, science and experimenting, but not accuracy by very far.
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Nonsense. |
Those fuses you looked at.. Replace them.. I don't care what they look like.. -9db? That is a whole lot.. Any way to make sure the highs are actually getting an AC signal? or some serious comb filtering going on.. with that Di Pole
Is it down -9 with just one speaker playing? Turn off one speaker and run your test. Then move the speaker further into the room. One speaker.
The jumpers. Put the stockers back in and then replace the fuses.
Break in is not 5 or 6 days, it takes that long for cables to settle.
Get them off the floor too. If they are on the floor.. 3-4 inches is better. Just to make sure..
2-3 weeks and let the crossovers break in.
All I got for no money! :-)
It takes 4-6 months to break in a set of Teflon caps.. They sound terrible the whole time, too.
Patience and due diligence, make sure you're staying out of trouble instead of getting out of trouble.. You'll get it... I'm sure..
Regards |
This may seem like to much common audio sense but maybe the room & your equipment are a bad match: If you have another room , you can try an experiment to see if another room yields the same results: If you bought them new, I am sure the authorised dealer would be happy to help. Lastly, there is Magnepan customer support: I am sure you are not the only 1 to have these issues and they would more than happy to help you. |
I'm running Maggie 3.7i with Pass gear and the sound is fabulous. You may need more break in time my 3.7 were well over 300 hrs before the magic appeared. Also play with the placement I always favored tweeter in speakers toed in and 18" from side wall with 36" from back wall on mid bass side and 30" on tweeter side.
Good luck |
I should add when I first had 1.7 they came without the jumpers installed and had me worried as there were no highs like at the store so double check your jumper connections. |
Size of room? Heavily damped (rugs, curtains, etc.) or not? Position of speakers relative to walls, listening position? |
I just wanted to add, make sure your banana plugs are not inserted too far. They can sometimes foul some wiring or reach the panel. Also take a flashlight and look at the wiring near the crossover and see if you see something disconnected. I seriously doubt both panels would be a problem but it is possible that a new guy mis-wired them. |
-PrimaLuna EVO 400 Monos
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WOW those monos are some power pack amplifiers,
Built in same factor as Cayin, Spark Audio, High quality,
Very surprised you are not getting higher fidelity in all ranges..
hummmm,.
I was close to buying the LRS, until my tech geek stepped in to cancel the project,
Said the LRS has 4 phms impedence, 86 db, not friendly to the Defy7,,**ok for string quartet**, well the purpose was for big full orchestra symphony,,
Tech: *Not going to happen,**.
Not sure if what he is hinting at has anything to do with your issues of faulty highs, no sparkle, shimmerings, dynamics in upper fq's..
Sorry to hear of this venture into Magnepan.
There is a big faithful magnepan group here,,maybe one these Magnepan-ians
can *chime* in here and give us some solutions to this roll off issues.
Good Luck |
If you pull the jumpers and just plug into the highs, what do you hear?
If they’re working they are working. Put the jumper bars back in and let them break in. It’s all placement and break in.
One speaker in the middle of the room. Easy test, to check for combing. Di poles on the same baffle plane SUCK.. They have a wonderful sound, but you cannot ever get the front and rear poles to be coherent.
That still has nothing to do with "is there a signal coming out of the speaker" vs There is a signal coming out but is being combed and canceled. That I could understand.
A pillow right behind the highs will show if that is the case. Cancel the rear pole.. The DB level should increase..
Regards |
oldhvymec3,337 posts07-29-2021 4:27pmIf you pull the jumpers and just plug into the highs, what do you hear? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You are NOT offering anything substantive to help resolve his issues... You should, we all should re-read exactly what the OP post is saying, He never siad *8I am not sure if I have them puled in correctly** He states,, why is the highs sounding rather crappy?** I think he deserves a solid truthful answer from The Magnepanian Club as to why the magnepan’s are not performing up to the reputation. Do we have a case here of hype and snakeoil..or what .......... You tell me,,I was just days from orderinga pair.... My tech screamed at me **NO* Just in the nick of time.... |
Seems to me, this type of speaker requires a specific amplifier in order to achieve maximum performance..
Or a I wrong?
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As most things tech, usually the fixes are simple. When they aren’t simple then it’s a big problem. Just put in the stock jumper and hook up your high watt ss system. Angle the panels so the tweeters are pointed at your listening position. Assuming your fuses are ok, what do you hear? Highs should not be an issue on Maggies. How many watts output are your monoblocks? Maggies like high power. I am using a pair of Bryston 28B3 monoblocks for instance. Schiit Vidars are not enough. I used to run a pair of Vidars and one went into thermal protection. |
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I have the Maggie's 0.7's ( room won't support 1.7's) for money spent I'm very satisfied with the performance of my Maggie's
As most know they need watts/current
I tried using my VAC KT88 tube 100 watt amp that has 8,4,2 taps l also felt l was missing something also on the top end
l decided to try my SS amp that puts out 500watts@8ohm 650@4ohms and 1,200 watts@1ohm +65 amps for 500 milliseconds I did the fuse, jumper upgrade and Magna Risers speaker stands
All l can is, that it totally transformed my .7's
I position my Maggie's 48" into the room, 110" apart, slight toe in and l have approximately 60" to the side walls l sit 120" from the speakers
All l can say is now they have excellent inner detail dynamics and nice extended highs
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Where along the vertical axis are you measuring? 1.7is and all QR Maggies are only good in the middle one third of their overall height. That’s why 3.7is are so much better… true ribbons do not have that limitation. |
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Maggies like high power
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now we are getting somewhere, which may lead us to the resolution of the OP,,,wait a minute,
Nayls02 has a massive SS amplifier,, and still he can not get the Magnepans to perform as high fidelity speakers...
......
Sure glad my tech geek screamed at me..
***NO***
wow, would have been yet another speaker project disaster.
The Voxativ Project set me back $900.
Good Luck to Nayls02
I’m outta here |
Either the tweeters on OP’s speakers are working properly or they’re not.
I say the following based on my decades of experience with Magnepan speakers. Amps, room, placement, source material, cables, fuses, the alignment of the stars, and so forth, and so on, have only had relatively minor, not dramatic effects on how the tweeters sound.
Whether I’ve used beefy tube mono amplification, a not-so-beefy tube integrated, a moderately-beefy hybrid integrated, or robust solid-state integrated, I find that I want to tame the tweeters a bit using resistors. The rest is refinement.
That is all. |
Any tech who says no to Maggie's unless you have a very low watt amp isn't worth listening to. Maggie's may need subs for lack of the very low end but they sure don't lack high end sizzle unless something is wrong with your tweeter. They come with the jumpers or resistors to tame the highs in a lively room. Your tech probably doesn't sell Maggie's so is pushing something else which I doubt will ever match a Maggie for the $$. |
I had 7 years with Maggie 3.7 s. Preamp isn’t the issue. I had a nakamichi amp heavily biased to class a and it was a total mismatch. Look for a a used Bryston or Mcormick amp, or a modern parasound amp. Needs an amp that can deliver fast settling amperage |
Suspect that they are not propely hooked up/connected.
If damaged it's unusual that both speakers would have the same fault.
Not a clue as to what the "add-ons" mentioned by the OP are, but suggest hooking them up stock (nasty jumper plate and all).
I responded to another Maggie owner here with similar complaints and the HF problem was resolved with proper hookup (poor electrical contact was the culprit I think, but too lazy to look back through my posts).
DeKay |
amp, or a modern parasound amp. Needs an amp that can deliver fast settling amperage
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is what my tech was getting at.
~~Requires high(er) current~~ than what the Defy7 can deliver = Not a match made in heaven.
Is what he was trying to express.
He suggests , sure for string quartet, the Magnepan + Defy marraige would be excellent..
Well thats not what was the intention. The magnepan was for voicing full slam orchestra, in super high definition rock solid bass, rich detailed perfect voiced midrange, and the most glorious highs ever heard by the human ear..
Is what I had set my hopes on for the Defy7.
Magnepan is quite magical, we all know this based on countless testimonials.
The caveat is a amplification current that can deliver the goods.
Lets stay focused.
As I now recall was often mentioned when discussing panels wayyy back in my Topic, ShootOut at the OK Corral...
How could i foget,,,which is why i never reconsidered going anything **panel*
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dekay3,770 posts07-29-2021 9:10pmSuspect that they are not propely hooked up/connected.
If damaged it's unusual that both speakers would have the same fault.
Not a clue as to what the "add-ons" mentioned by the OP are, but suggest hooking them up stock (nasty jumper plate and all).
I responded to another Maggie owner here with similar complaints and the HF problem was resolved with proper hookup (poor electrical contact was the culprit I think, but too lazy to look back through my posts).
DeKay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I aint buying in. No evidence his hookups are faulty. |
I reiterate: The tweeters in OP's speakers are either working properly or they are not. And nobody here knows what other variables/factors are present in OP's situation. Not every problem nail needs a sledgehammer. (HUH? whatever does that mean?)
I suspect that @dekay is on the right track.
I will say it's (sorta) fun to read all the responses in this thread. But I think it's time for me to unfollow. Best wishes and I hope OP gets it sorted out. |
mozartfan would you put a cork in it?
ONCE again read before you post..
I offered a reasonable solution it see if the tweeter section is playing and if it is, let it break in.
Second a di pole will comb filter like no other it will cancel out front to rear because of the common pole.
PUT a pillow over the back of the tweeter section to stop the combing,. IF that works you know it’s combing. NOW position the speaker to reduce the combing as much as you can.. The -9db should go down.
You can double check for combing by using only a single speaker, pull it to the center of the room..
TWO ears TWO eyes, ONE mouth... Order away, they are great speakers..
Regards |
1.7i's sound like they have a head cold because of where the inductor is placed in the crossover.
If you don't want to mess with the insides, the easy solution is to buy a Shiit Loki or Lokius and bump the frequency you are not hearing properly. I bought one as an amusement and not only does it do that well, but you can also bump the bass, as they will produce a significant amount more than their stock configuration. Same concept as a plate amp for subs. Box subs don't go that low naturally, their bass is intentionally overdriven. Not talking about open baffle or horn subs, just boxed ones.
Let the naysayers descend like rabid wild animals while they mic measure their rooms and let a computer do the tampering for them, all feeling safe on the streets knowing there are no tone controls on their preamps.
Everything else that offers a significant performance increase is major surgery that requires removing the panty hose, starting with a million staples.
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williethe53b is Back! "rabid wild animals?" WTF? |
I had the LRS for a while and liked them so much I stepped up to the 1.7i
I find they would run OK on a 25 watt tube pre/power amp (Cary Audio), a 50 watt tube integrated (Jolida), but they shine with big SS power (Adcom GFA-365 mono-blocks).
They sound great to me. Placement is five feet (5') from the front wall, tweeters out, toe-in to aim just outside your ears.
Past speakers in the same room were KEF 104/2, Infinity RS II, Klipsch Chorus II.
PS - I can't hear above 13kHz.................................... |
Sounds strange. I bought my pair of 1.7i's about 2 years ago with never have seen or listened to a Magnepan in my life. I figured for that low dough it was worth taking a chance. Hooked them up to my Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP Integrated amp with KT-150'S and was blown away by the sound! Plenty of highs and mids. I also use AntiCable speaker wire and the stock jumpers. I run two subs from the single out on the Primaluna. Blows away the Vandersteen 3A Signatures that I replaced. Dana |
