My New Magnepan 1.7i's sound dull and lifeless on the top end...why?

All Magnepan speakers require a lively back wall to generate the proper sound at the listening position. If the back wall is too damped, it will muffle the high frequencies. Remove any damping panels, foam, etc from behind the speakers and listen. Maggies do not respond well to rooms extensively treated for cone speakers.

Hello nayls02 . Check the fuses on the lower part of the rear of the panels. Replace them with 1 or 2 amp fast blow fuses, preferably ceramic.

That is very unusual for Magnepans...usually the opposite...speaker placement is very important with Maggies. I would try different positions and angles and make sure they are a couple of feet off the wall.

Agreed, very odd, especially since whenever some solo violin comes up at random it's actually impossible to skip or change the tune since it's so darned engaging. One thought, you have a lot of 'gear' going on here. Maggies really aren't that finicky, I recall using some of the priciest Nordost Blue heaven cable and it really dulled things down. Mostly bass, but plain 10 gauge wire sounded much better. If you are 'upgrading' anything based on cables, I'd start there, replace with more ordinary and especially high gauge stuff since Maggies like current. 

russ691,216 posts07-29-2021 12:28pmI just wanted to add, make sure your banana plugs are not inserted too far. They can sometimes foul some wiring or reach the panel. Also take a flashlight and look at the wiring near the crossover and see if you see something disconnected. I seriously doubt both panels would be a problem but it is possible that a new guy mis-wired them.  
Apologies for the delayed response. We have a winner! Banana plugs were inserted too far. Backed them off a 1/8", and the magical highs appeared. I must say, these Maggie's deliver incredible musicality and detail. 

Thanks again for all the suggestions and the fix from russ69.

nayls02 OP

The 1.7I is said to be the same evil load in the HF as the 1.7 with very low impedance combined with high -phase angle makes for nasty EPDR loading.
https://hometheaterhifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/magneplanar-1.7-speaker-impedance-phase.gif

I wouldn’t expect tubes to have much up there they will sound very rolled off. And Class-D won’t like it either.
Amps to look at are ones that have the reputation for not even breaking a sweat into that kind of loading.
I can think Krell for sure and I’m surprised the Pass mono’s didn’t work a bit, but they are Mosfet, and not quite as muscle bound into those loads as a bi-polar (bjt) Krell.

Cheers George

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, and sorry if this is a dumb comment, but just check that the external fabric is not adhered to the speaker membrane anywhere. Often they're kinda stuck here and there and can release by themselves but sometimes don't.
That would deaden a panel. 
You'll know by looking side on to see if the fabric is flat or not.

Are you sure there is not some snakeoil selling going  here?

I had a similar problem with my MMG's last year. I thought the tweeters were blown, however, I took a shot and tried this: I removed the binding post plate and found that the wires from the crossover to the plate were slightly loose. I tightened them up and they're back to normal. I don't know how this happened, perhaps through shipping. Either way, it might be worth looking into. Best of luck.

Jon

Sounds to me like you set everything up right.  Those stock steel jumpers are junk.  Pass Labs have plenty of current to drive those ribbons.  Anticables work well with Maggies but maybe you just need more break in time.  You may try tilting forward a couple inches to see if that helps because what you are describing doesn't make sense.  I owned 1.7i's and used Anticables and their jumpers with high current amps and the one thing that was never lacking was upper ranges.  And don't be  influenced by measuring devices.  The two best ones you have are the ones on either side of your head.

The crossover in the 1.7i is pure junk. Replace the capacitors and the inductor, ditch the stock  wiring. Lose the fuse
And you  will have dynamic range coming out of those speakers that you  would not believe. 
I am saying this, because I have a pair myself, and did all the upgrades. 

Absolutely @yuviarora, the binding posts as well (Cardas posts will fit right in the stock holes). That whole plate is filled with ferrous parts! Have you watched the GR Research YouTube video in which Danny Richie measures the 1.7 and looks into it's x/o? Well worth your time. A YouTube search for "GR Research" will bring up all Danny's videos.

@bdp24 I haven’t watched that video, but I will. The post was the 1st thing I chucked, now my crossover is soldered onto my cables directly.
I have Mundorf Evo Supreme oils for the mids, Mundorf Supreme Silver oil for the Tweeter, Jantzen wax 12 gauge Coil inductor for the Bass, Neotech 14 gauge Solid OCC Copper for the internal wiring.... The speakers sound incredible, Jazz is just to die for.
One of the coolest surprises was Electronic music, which previously sounded like monkeys beating pots and pans on the speakers, is now one of the most detailed, crisp 3 dimensional sound I have heard on any speakers.
My friends call the Maggies "The Spaceship". EDM sounds like a mushroom trip, no distortion whatsoever.
Fantastic speakers, but the crossover upgrade is an absolute must in my opinion.

@yuviarora did you install the GR-Research Maggie upgrade or are the parts you mentioned above something you selected yourself, or was your upgrade obtained from someplace other than GR-Research and if so, where? I have a pair of 1.7i. Thanks!

@kingbarbuda I made the crossover myself, just upgraded the factory crossover, kept the values exactly the same.
You need 115.8uf total for the mid section (3x33uf+10uf+6.8uf), 10uf for the tweeter, and a 1.4mh inductor for the bass panel.
If you follow the existing layout, you can just build a crossover using the same layout. A schematic is also available online.
I had to build a box attached to the speakers in the back of the panel, I put my crossover inside it. You can go about doing it however you see fit.
I went with mundorfs because they are very highly rated boutique parts, build it well and build it once.
Changing the crossover is an absolute must on these speakers.

P.S. Just  watched GR research's video, and his  way of building the crossover is his own, but I can tell you this, the stock configuration after changing all the parts is not lacking in the least. Treble is beautiful, shimmers that are incredibly detailed and never harsh. Everything is in balance. 

I would put pictures up if I could, the crossover box looks very nice on the speakers, I have also done a stand upgrade in the back. Both are bolted into the stock frame.

Just updated my Account picture. You can see the crossover box there. 

I just bought a used pair of 1.7i speakers, in pristine condition and only 7 months old. I own a pair of .7s and wanted to upgrade. The 1.7i speakers sound bad. Dull, bassy, no high-frequency detail. I was hoping to get more low-end response, but I wasn’t expecting the dull, lifeless sound. I am very experienced in setting up Maggies. Magna Risers don’t help. Different amps don’t help. Tweeters in vs. out don’t help. Neither does moving the speakers and my listening chair help. I can get them optimized, but I can’t remove the shelf in the frequency response (about 5 or 6 dB starting in the midrange, so that the lower mids and bass are elevated). Is this how they sound? Is there a large variation from one pair to another? My .7s sound awesome in the same room with the same equipment.

@eatapc Hi. I am a former Maggie 1.7i owner. This is what I recommend:

1. Magnepans NEED subwoofers. They do. They are ribbon speakers with no air movement and no percussion. There is no slam. They need subwoofers. I added a pair of REL T/9i subs to my 1.7i and it revolutionized the sound. 
2. I agree the binding posts, fuse and jumper are steel plate garbage. I replaced the steel plate jumper and cheap fuse with Mike Powell’s silver upgrade. It’s a sliver humper and a silver tube replacing the fuse. Those changes greatly improved the top end. I am sure if you are handy enough and can replace the crossover and binding posts, more benefits will accrue. 
3. These Maggies need powerful solid state amps for regular driving, but also for headroom and dynamics. Schiit Vidars are insufficient. Amps like the Brystons and Pass Labs are good. 
I hope this was helpful. 

Hi Friends, 

So I am at about 250 or so hours with my new 1.7i's, and also experiencing the lack of highs, and sort of lifeless sound as well. Do they ever open up more, after more hours...or is this it?  🤔  They are quite slow sounding, and I have a McIntosh MC 252 driving them, on its 4 ohm Taps.  So weird. I'm  not used to Maggies sounding slow, as I've owned MG 12's in the past, along with. 5's, and these sound nothing like those.  So will these open more in time? Did the original post guy have any changes to his?  Really curious, and also wondering if I should start driving them hard and loud to get em to open shop.  Just don't know.  Thanks for any insight.  -Brian.

Did the original post guy have any changes to his? 

Yes, he had pushed the banana plug in too far and it was contacting elements. Your issue may be different. I didn't like my Mac 402 with my .7 Maggies. Much better with a Parasound A21 and a lively preamp. 

OP, this will answer some questions:

I’ve been a loyal Maggie owner for decades using 10s, 1.6s and 3.6s as my main speakers. I even bi-amped my 3.6s using a Pass Labs XVR -1 crossover. I moved on to YG Acoustics and couldn’t be happier. The YG’s are more accurate, neutral, detailed and musical.

I have no affiliation with GR, but found the video and measurements to be informative.

Okay, little update here...and this is for MY particular ROOM.  I think I've solved my situation, and posting in case it helps any of you.  I have a small room, and had the tweeters on the inside all this time, figuring it was the best plan with my little space. WRONG BRIAN!!!  I moved them to the outer edges, with slightly more toe in, and the difference is NOT subtle!!  Beautiful highs, openness, and imaging.  Plus it spread the music on a wider stage, with no loss of excellent imaging.  It's actually more focused in a real stage way, and as it was with my previous set ups. I'm now pretty damned happy, as set up the other way, they sounded like they were playing in their cardboard boxes!!!  So there you have it.  Your room may vary, but try what I did if issues, and remember to tow em in well. Ahhhh.  Back to Maggie May Bliss!

@trumpetbri Glad to hear it! Maggie’s are glorious. Anyone who says they are inaccurate is delusional .

@kingbarbuda "Magnepans NEED subwoofers. They do. They are ribbon speakers with no air movement and no percussion. There is no slam. They need subwoofers. I added a pair of REL T/9i subs to my 1.7i and it revolutionized the sound."

Can you elaborate how you connected your RELs to your system?  Did you just set the crossover on the subs?  If so, what did you set them to?  Did you do a high pass filtering on the 1.7s?  I have some 1.7is on order and want to have two subs as well and am trying to figure out the best way.  

Right now, I have MMGs and I'm using a Bluesound Node and it's sub out with a single sub (and its high pass filtering and low pass filtering) to connect everything, and it sounds pretty good to me.  But I want to have two subs with the 1.7s.  Thank you.

 

Not to be argumentative, but Maggies are NOT ribbon loudspeakers. Well, the tweeter in the 3.7i, 20.7i, and 30.7 is a ribbon driver, but all the rest of the Maggie line and all their drivers are planar-magnetics, not ribbons. A "ribbon" driver is a very specific thing (the diaphragm of the driver and the conductor that causes it to move are one in the same), not just any ol’ planar.

Calling Maggies a ribbon loudspeaker is like calling an electric bass a bass "guitar". Common (Steve Guttenberg regularly refers to Maggies as ribbons, and John Atkinson always calls his electric bass a bass guitar), and incorrect. ;-)

@bdp24 your point is well taken. The point I was trying to get across is that Maggies do not move air. They don’t have traditional drivers they move air. Hence, no persuasiveness in the sound. 
 

@charliech No high pass filter used. RELs were connected to amps with high level REL cables made by Kimber and later Analysis Plus to amp binding posts. Crossover was tuned to my Maggies and the room. It’s been a while since I had the Maggies in my system. But they were crossed likely at around 80-100Hz. 
 

I would also recommend getting the Mike Powell silver Ag Maggies upgrade and putting the 1.7i pairs on better stands. 

One difference between open baffle dipoles (such as planars) and dynamic drivers in enclosures (whether sealed or ported) is that dipoles "move" air from one side of the planar to the other---leaving the air pressure inside the room unaffected, while box speakers change the air pressure inside the room (and inside the enclosure, which is why the suspensions of drivers intended for use in enclosures differs from that intended for open baffle use).

@kingbarbuda, did you mean to say "percussiveness" rather than "persuasiveness"? If so, I find the bass panels of the big Maggies to have a very percussive sound, which is why they reproduce piano and drums so well. But that’s more a mid-bass rather than deep-bass (40Hz and down) phenomenon. Magnepan has been working on a dipole woofer system for a few years now, which uses multiple dynamic drivers in a sealed enclosure. It will be available as an add-on for current Magnepan models, and as the woofer system for a new model: the 30.7 For Condos.

Eminent Technology already offers such a woofer system, and then there is the state-of-the-art OB/Dipole Sub from Rythmik Audio/GR Research.

I sold off my 1.7i’s not long after I had them solely because their height and overall presence in my room made me feel as though I was on Easter Island…

I replaced the 1.7i’s with a pair of .7’s, which I found to be much more responsive, perhaps even “brighter”, for lack of a better description. I had a Pass Labs X150.5 during this period, as well as a couple of tube preamps - all was good. 
Fast forward to the present and I’m now absolutely digging a pair of original MMG’s whilst I await the arrival of the new LRS+.  Pass with Maggies and Thiels is usually a solid matchup. 
 

My current setup is a good deal less involved with equipment. I’m enjoying a Belles 250i hybrid Mosfet integrated amplifier with the MMG’s, a coupla Schiit dacs, a cd transport, a cheap-seats pro-Ject turntable, and an Aurender 2TB music server. Back to basics more or less and everything is fine. Oh, and no sub. 

@bdp24 Yes. I meant “pecussiveness”. Autocorrect messing me up again.

My experience with Magnepans are my former 1.7i and the AXPONA tests of the LRS and the LRS+. I added a pair of REL T/9i subs to my Maggies and it made a world of difference. Not hard to dial in. But I think the addition of the subs and what kind of subs could be room dependent. I have thought about getting a pair of LRS+ just for kicks. I haven’t pulled the trigger on that yet though. Going to AXPONA at the end of the week. Maybe something will happen there. 

I just received a call from the hifi shop that my Maggie LRS+ speakers have arrived. I would say “finally” but it was only a three month wait, which is a rather big departure for me since I’ve always bought everything I own from stock. I’m not a very patient guy…

 

Immediately upon receiving the call I put my pair of original MMG’s up for sale on another site, at a price I hope someone long interested in a pair of Maggie’s but hesitant about taking a more substantial financial plunge will decide to buy. I mean $275 for a pair of speakers as good as these is a pretty good deal.  It’s worth a toe in the water at that price. 
 

 The audio press went fairly gaga over the original MMG model when it was first released, and if the equally gaga opinions currently being tossed out there for the LRS+ are even half accurate I’ll be a happy camper. The two brands of speakers that have consumed most of my interest and money over the years are Magnepan and Thiel. There’s more than just “something about them” that keeps me wanting one or the other. 
 

I pick up the speakers this coming Saturday. Woohoo!

I’ve high passed my 1.7is at 100hz with dual tekton 2x10 subs, rca inputs.

played around a bit with sub xover, volume and phase settings for room/placement.

Happy camper here..