Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

Dam, what I'm hearing is that the galvanic isolation in the 005 is great, but not entirely perfect. I dont think i could justify spending 1k+ on an opticalrendu or similar device on the already expensive 005. I was initially considering something along the lines of an igalvanic 3.0. I think the Singxer can be had for roughly a third of the 005's price. Its still a tough call for me if I just wanna save some cash and call it a day. Even though there's over 10 pounds of upgraded electronics in the 005 over the singxer like you said, do you think 3x the price gets you a huge leap in performance?

Here is my experience using the usb input to the DA005. I am using a MacBook Pro laptop running on its battery until I get a dedicated streamer. Before the DA005 I was using an Ayre Codex DAC. I found that an UpTone IsoRegen benefitted the usb with the Codex. The sound was clearer, easier on the ears, and more musical. However, I did not hear this same improvement when I used the UpTone IsoRegen with the DA005.  Instead, I tried a device which converts usb to either optical or coaxial outs in an attempt to galvanically isolate the usb. I preferred the coaxial input over the optical which seemed to soften the music. The coaxial digital cable was a DH Labs silver sonic.  I liked the usb to coaxial conversion and listened to quite a bit of music this way.  On the Duende track from Bozzio Levin and Stevens, the bass guitar near the beginning was articulate and clean as it should be as compared to optical input which muddied those same bass notes.  Today just for comparison I went back to direct from the MacBook Pro using my Curious usb cable into the DA005 with nothing in between.  While the bass notes were clean and clear, they were also better articulated and music overall was punchier and more dynamic. So... I am currently listening to digital files and streaming directly into the DA005 from my laptop.  You might be perfectly happy with the DA005 without a reclocker but I would recommend you use a decent usb cable.  Overall, what I am finding is that some of these devices may benefit the DA005 in some ways but not in others.  

@turcoda It's much more than superior usb board in 005 that makes it a wonderful dac. Every aspect of 005 is well thought out, reason why it's been so positively reviewed. With 005 you won't be moving on to another dac for a long time, you can build up rest of system over time to take advantage of full potential of this dac. Can you say the same about the Singxer? Knowing what I know about the 005, if I were building a system I'd get the 005 and cross one more item off the upgrade list, this is dac for the long term.   My present system is culmination of well over twenty years building systems, this is likely my last system, I see no need to upgrade this dac.

Fair enough. Sadly I know myself better and I know ill be out shopping for new parts in no time, no matter what i buy : P The singxer crossed off everything off my list I wanted in a dac. Seeing as I'm a far cry from being an electrical engineer, I have little clue as to how the more expensive components in the 005 will affect the sound.

I just splurged and bought an HSA-1B amp recently and i feel like I spent way more than I should have already. Buying the 005 just exacerbates that feeling. But you're right, I'm probably gonna end up picking it up anyway...

Just put my 005 in the system a couple of hours ago.  First impressions are it is smooth and spacious.   I didn't hear the brightness others speak of, but maybe it's just smoother compared to the DAC card in my Aesthetix integrated amp.  I'll let it run in more then commit on the sound after a couple hundred hours.  As I understand it may take 350 to 400 hours to come into it's own.  

@kclone Congratulations!  You're in for a treat and I don't think it will take 400 hours for it to all come together.  How are you using the DAC, with a streamer, computer, transport?  What cables and inputs are you using?  If you have any questions there are several here who will offer some help or suggestions.  Have fun with it!

okay, listening right now, it does sound harder.  I have been listening at lower volumes because my tinnitus has been bothering me, but as I juice the volume it is a little harder/brighter, at lower volumes it sounds relaxed.   The good news is my system sounds very enjoyable at lower volumes, average about 50 decibels lately.  

In front of it I have a Aurender streamer with USB out.  I am using Duelund IC (similar to Belden 8402) into a Aesthetix Mimas integrated amplifier.  Speaker as Proac D48 Rs.  I may try it as a preamp later on, but I am worried it won't be as good as the tube preamp section of my integrated.  

One thing of note, since hooking up the 005 last night, it is not playing nice with my Euqi Core 1800 power conditioner.  Last night it seemed to cause a power surge after plugging it in, it shut down the power conditioner and the out let it was connected to. I hit the breaker and got back in business.  Then in the middle of the night, all my components plugged into the Equi Core were off, shut down.  I think the conditioner is dead or something, I'm afraid to plug stuff back in to it.  Right now all my components except the integrated amp (plugged into the wall) are plugged into a little Monster power strip.  

@kclone The 005 will swing back and forth for a month or so while it's breaking in. Don't worry if you get some awful sound while the break in is going on.

Sounds like your power socket is overloaded or the power breaker may be old and needs replacing. Check what else you have connected to the same circuit and the power capacity of your power conditioner.

If your Aurender has an AES/EBU and/or COAX digital out set it to Professional Level in the Aurender App. You'll get a better sound.

thanks jc4659, yeah, I'll be patient, I know the deal on this as I have followed others break in notes.    

@kclone

As @lordmelton wrote, the break-in of your Musetec is usually not in a straight line. Just keep listening and it will get there. There are some very fine, and expensive, capacitors used inside and I think those are the components that take time to sound absolutely right. I would not use the Musetec straight in to your amplifier section. You have a great integrated and you should use it for all it’s sonic benefits. Especially at low volumes, you will be sacrificing too much SQ.

The Equi-Core "power conditioner," as you probably know, is not a power conditioner in the usual sense. It does not create new power, like the PS Audio units, nor does it "simply" filter the AC line as do virtually all the others. It changes the AC power lines in an unique way, supplying live power to the otherwise neutral line. Instead of the component receiving live, neutral and ground lines, it gets two live lines and a ground line.  So it is possible that a particular component may not take well to that--I don’t really know. My suggestion is that you consult with Equi-Core, perhaps referring them to the informational page at Musetec to see if there is anything there that might not look friendly upon a "live" neutral line. Given that the Equi-Core is such an odd bird, I’m not sure that Musetec could be of any help. However, given what you have written, I would keep the Musetec away from the Equi-Core.

Thanks for your input guys.  I'll probably move on for the Equi-Core and look at getting something else.  Maybe a Puritan Labs.  

@kclone @melm  I doubt its the balanced operation of Equi-Core as I use BPT 3.5 Signature balanced transformer based pc with my 005. I suspect you may be overloading Equi-core, likely quite a bit of inrush current when going from standby to on with 005, recall these are supercapacitors and charge up at each start. If Equi-Core continues to operate correctly without 005 connected your Equi-Core isn't failing. You could try disconnecting another component from EC and see if that solves issue, feeding clean power to 005 is beneficial.

wait what, I don't want to unplug something just to get another unit started.up.  Forgive my ignorance, but I used to plug my power amp along with everything else into it an never had a problem but now it can't candle super capacitors out in a DAC?

FWIW, I fire up the DA005, my preamp, and Pass Labs x-350.5 amp all within 10 seconds of each other!  Those Pass caps are pulling lots of current no doubt.  No problems.  I'd work around the Equi-Core for the time being until you figure out what the problem is.  With all the changes that the new DAC will be going through you don't want to be throwing other variables into the mix just yet.

yep, sound advice jc4649.  Thanks. 

Since we are talking about start up of the dac, are most users going to standby when not in use?   I had decided to leave on 24/7.  Is that a bad idea?

@kclone I understand your reluctance to remove components from pc. Have you tried removing amp from the Equi-core and run straight into wall? I've found over many years and many amps I much prefer all amps straight into wall vs BPT. But then I run three dedicated circuits, each on 20amp service, 10 gauge Romex, dedicated grounds on each. Again, I understand you may prefer amp into pc if not using dedicated AC.

The power surge on initial turn on points to your ac circuit as culprit vs Equi-core. The big current draw in your setup is integrated, I'm with @lordmelton in thinking its your AC circuit is the problem. If you have typical 15amp service with likely 16 gauge Romex your AC circuit not up to powering this many components. There's not much to go wrong in a balanced power transformer pc, I'd check that AC circuit prior to purchasing new pc since you'll have exact same problem with the new pc.

@blang

Supercapacitors, like all capacitors, have a limited lifetime. In the case of supercapacitors it’s usually measured in cycles, the ones in the Musetec for 500,000 cycles. It’s hard to know what that means for normal DAC use. As you know in the Musetec there are two sets of supercapacitors that are charged alternately--should probably lengthen life. In any event, the controller might charge more frequently as they slowly lose capacity. They are not very expensive and not very hard to replace. But I suppose that’s a reason to put the DAC into standby mode between listening sessions.

As I have tubes in my system, I turn it on an off (standby) with the tubes (some also on standby).

sns, my amp hasn't been plugged into the Euqi Core in months.  I was just commenting that the Equi Core handled everything including my amp with no trouble, I didn't clarify that it hadn't been in there in awhile.  It sounds way better out of the wall.  

does the unit burn in  on standby mode?, because I was playing on sending a signal through mine 24/7 for about 3 weeks.  

@kclone 

Well, it may depend upon what you mean by burning in.  All the inputs are digital so there is no signal going through on stand-by as there is no power being supplied to the digital circuits.   The analog circuits I suppose are being kept "warm" with stand-by.   I do not know to what extent that constitutes breaking in.  I would think that leaving it on with signals going through for three weeks is overkill, but not a lot of wear in the scheme of things.  You'll propbably get 90+% of break-in in the first 100 hours or so.  Perhaps the engineering types will chime in here with a better answer.

Curious if any of you have compared the Musetec to a comparable tube dac?

@kclone Hi, To put this matter to rest please plug your whole system except for your PC into a regular power strip, including your amp, and then switch your breaker on. If the breaker doesn't trip then the problem is with the PC. And as I said before is your system using a dedicated circuit? The power consumption of the 005 is only 25w.

Also check your breaker is correctly rated and BTW is it an Earth Leakage Breaker? These trip very easily and you may need to adjust it.

Hi, I just wanted everyone to be aware that Midwest Audio is a dealer/distributor for Musetec. Shipping is fast and free. The special offer right now is $3199 as long as I have no other fees. Customers are getting their 005 DACs usually in about 10 days. (I don't know if this type of post is allowed but since this DAC is $3299 on Ali Express, I thought people should know about the option in the USA).

Thank you!

Midwest Audio

574 329-1850

@midwesternaudio I would assume you welcome inquiries and technical questions about the DAC from those interested in learning more about the Musetec DA005.  Also, any comparisons with other DACS would be welcome here too with the usual caveat that you are up front about being a dealer/distributor.  Verdant Audio posts frequently so I assume AudioGon is okay with this.

lordmelton, yes, I after I hit the breaker switch the other day, I plugged everything into a power strip.  I was going to introduce one component at time back to the Equi-core but didn't get a chance.  I order a pair of Polk Audio R600s for my son (that is what he wanted), so I spent the night setting those up and will break them in for him on my system.  Plus, I watched a basketball game.  I will try tonight and report what happens.  By the way, I know Polk is not considered audiophile, but listening to them this morning, I'm like WTF?  They are pretty darn good. 

@kclone With the caliber of your electronics it's not too surprising that the Polks sound really good!  Many years (20?) ago I was breaking in a pair of Paradigm Atoms for my daughter using, at the time, all Audio Research electronics and they sounded so good I bought a pair for myself.  I still have them!

@jc4659 Hi, yes I may be able to answer questions. Glad to help if I can. The DACs that I have compared the Musetec 005 directly to are the Gustard X26Pro, The Holo Audio Spring 3 and the PS Audio Directstream. The Gustard is not really in the same league in my opinion. It sounded smaller and less engaging.

I was enjoying the Holo Audio Spring 3 and couldn't fault it but I always felt that there was something missing. When I first got the Musetec 005, I brought it in from my icy porch and connected it stone cold. I immediately thought, I like this better. Of course it improved over time but the big differences to me were the increased transparency of the Musetec as well as better PRAT and dynamics. It just sounded more real to me, and allowed a better connection to the music. So, I sold the Holo Audio and became a US Dealer for Musetec.

A customer traded in the Direcstream for the Musetec so I did a comparison between the two DACs. The Directstream is a great DAC and one that I like a lot because it has great musicality and tone. The Musetec also has great musicality and tone, but again, it had a little extra transparency so that I felt that I could hear a little more into the "space" of the recording. I think the Musetec might have been a little more dynamic as well, which to me always makes the music seem more real.

I did have the Holo Audio May KTE a while back and I thought it was really good. I didn't have the Musetec at that time but from what I remember, I believe the two DACs are on par. The one thing that I like about the Musetec that I couldn't do with the May, is connect straight to my power amp. The Musetec has a volume control on the remote and it sounds really good connected direct. I know a lot of people say that a good preamp always improves the sound, but I could definitely live without a preamp with the Musetec.

Persons researching the Musetec and wanting to read everything, and especially Europeans, may wish to know that there is a new thread about the DAC on a German Audio site:  Aktives Hören 

Google the site.  In Google click on  "Bausteine für aktives HiFi" and then scroll to "Qualität von China-Krachern (hier: Musetec DAC)"

Anyone can read it by means of Google Translate.  English readers may be amused by some of the translations.  Breaking in the DAC becomes "rehearsing" it.  Seems logical.
 

Thanks for the info and still on the fence on trying a 005 against my NOS Tube Dac...😏

Wig

@wig Not sure this has any bearing on present day tube dacs, but back in the day I had Audio Logic 24MXL. Also had Perpetual Technologies dac setup modded to the hilt. AL suffered greatly in comparison, perhaps unfairly biased against tube dacs to this day.

Over the years I've come to the conclusion I only want sources to provide maximum resolution and transparency, barring analytical presentation, I prefer to add flavoring elsewhere.

Whether 005 will fit your needs contingent upon your evaluation of present tube dac. If you feel present dac excessively flavored towards warmth or lacking transparency and resolving power 005 could be for you.

Update on mine, not much to tell. I listened for a little bit but my main speakers are out of the system because I am burning in a pair of Polk R600s for my son. I have about 120 hours on mine. I had some Pink Floyd on, It sounds very detailed, even at the lower volumes I was listening at (tinnitus is bothering me). I don’t notice exceptional staging capabilities others have reported yet, but I am with unfamiliar speakers too, and I haven’t messed with optimal placement yet with those either.

I have a photo of the 005 in the system on my virtual systems page.  Last pic at the bottom.  IMO, photos do not do it justice.  

Too many speaker variables for you to evaluate certain capabilities of the DAC. I admire your patience though. I would have put my speakers back in by now ;)

@kclone The online manual recommends you set DPLL to BW01 for PCM and BWO6 for DSD. I have found the SLOW filter is best.

Turn off DOP and DE-Emphasis unless you really need them.

You have an integrated amp so use the pre-amp and set the 005 volume to fixed.

Make sure your Aurender is outputting Pro Level SPDIF and your conversion settings are correct.

Happy Listening.

I was on the phone with Midwestern Audio and I thought he had me set it to fast filter.  Unless I heard him wrong which is possible.  

Well, I tried to hook up a component to the Equi-Core and turned it on and the breaker associated with a couple outlets tripped and turned off all the power, tv, power, amp, lights and all.  sorry for taking up the thread for this, but there was never a problem until I initially tried to plug the 005 into it.  I flipped the breaker back on and everything works fine with power strip and outlets, but no way am I plugging anything into the Equi-Core again.  

Coincidence or causation for 005 and ET? Isn't there protection circuit on ET? You'd think that would trip prior to house breaker. In any case looks like that pc malfunctioning. I've had my BPT for nearly twenty years without a single problem.

I prefer slow filter, I recall at least one person here preferring fast. In any case, doesn't make a huge difference, dpll setting more consequential.

My estimations of 005 sound quality continues to grow as latest tubes and  resistor and cap mods in pre burn in, and newly added OpticalRendu. SS, imaging continue  to bloom, timbre continues it's more natural evolution, and the ease OR added, just WOW!

005 capabilities to expose every single little change is sublime. question is, could this be double edged sword? I went in wrong direction with audiophile network switch, 005 easily exposed that.

@ sns

Many Thanks,

Any Musetec 005 owners have or heard in person the Mola Mola Tambaqui?

I have the Musetec (love it), but looking to complete my second system and curious how these two would compare?

I'll know this week if I'll be able to in home demo a Tambaqui. However I'm just a little skeptical that something could sound notably better then the 005 justifying its 4 times price difference.

But I'm curious.

@ja_kub_sz I haven't heard the Tambaqui but even if it did sound better than the 005 it would be in a micro detail or two, which you wouldn't even be able to pinpoint unless you were doing side by side comparisons, or personal taste.

I've heard plenty of DACs more expensive than the Tambaqui and the 005 more than holds it's own.

For that imaginary factor I'm not going to buy a Tambaqui or anything else.

You can get a 005 and an Aurender N20 for the same price or a 005 plus over $10 grand of cables.

Lots of people here have spent months talking about the Tambaqui but no one has stumped up the cash yet. Dreamers with lemonade money.

I stumped up for a mola mola before I heard the musetec, preferring the Tambaqui to anything else I’d heard. My business partner bought a musetec to try, so we set up the comparison. It didn’t take more than 2 or 3 tracks to hear the musetec outperform the MM in detail and clarity in general. You can just hear more of the music with the musetec. It also had better weight, and staging is better especially in front to back depth. I sold the Tambaqui and bought a musetec. The musetec versus the may, now that’s a much harder call.

@lordmelton you're probably right in your conclusion.

This all started when I saw a demo Tambaqui for sale on US Audio Mart for 9k. I immediately contacted the seller and offered up the $$, and got, what I presumed was a scripted response of "it just sold, but I can get you a new one at a good price".

If I had grabbed it for 9k essentially new with papers, I would have given it a try and happily sold it again if it didn't live up to the hype.

But now I'm kinda half in half out, because paying even another 2k more... The diminishing return line I'd have already crossed (most likely).

Oh well... My impulse buy of a dream audio product floundered I guess.

We'll see... If the dealer let's me do an in home listen, maybe there's still a chance to A/B the two.

I'll let you know.

Thanks

@teknorob23 yeah the May KTE was/is probably what I'll go with and hear the 005 and May are very close approximates, but the May is almost 6k vs the 005 at 3.5k. So again the value proposition is a hard one there too considering I already have the 005.

I'll be honest the 005 is the only DAC that I've had that made my jaw drop (not that I've had or heard many, coming from a X26 Pro), but I would liken it to when I first heard the Technics G700 iAMP which I fell in love with. Only to then get the SU-R1000 and felt a little less excited about it because the "jump" wasn't as large as it was from my old Cambridge 851a to the Technics SU-G700.

Probably best to just sit this one out, hit AXPONA collect my thoughts and wait a year or two.

After all I just "saved" 12-13k 😂

Now to think what else I can blow 13k on... Where to start?

Trust me no one was more skeptical about the 005 than I was, but listening to it b2b with the MM, it’s objectively superior. I’m lucky enough to have the may and 005 on my rack at the moment, with a view to keeping one of them, so far the may has it, based on texture, 3 dimensionality and separation. I think they resolve at similar levels but i can hear more, more easily with the May. Each time I switch back to the May the smile is bigger, but you’re right it’s still double the price of the 005 making the later all the more remarkable

@ja_kub_sz @teknorob23 Hi Guys, Well I’m glad that has finally been put to rest and the 005 can be acknowledged for the fantastic value it is.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Holo May has a few tricks up it’s sleeve but I just don’t like two box units. That’s why I came across this thread in the first place.

I’m feeding an Aurender N20 (10 Mhz clocked) into the 005. I’ve found so far that the AES/EBU favours WAV, older CDs and PCM Hi Rez, while USB favours DSD, FLAC, SHM CDs and anything else that has been digitally enhanced.

Everything is ripped to the Aurender SSD.

I can see a Shunyata Omega AES/EBU in my future. I’m currently using a Hi Diamond Reference AES/EBU and Crystal Clear Audio USB Magnum Opus II, both of which I’ve found to be excellent.

Here's best comparative review I've probably seen of  KTE version of Holo. Compared both to Mola Mola and Totaldac. https://twitteringmachines.com/review-holo-audio-kte-may-dac/

Anyone had a chance comparing the 005 to a Lampizator DAC ? I had the Denafrips Terminator and much preferred the live sound of a Lampi dac. I suspect that any other DACs I buy might give me a different sound, not necessarily better. Hence it would be useful to know if someone compared. Does the US dealer send one for home audition ?

@Technorob23

I understand what you are saying about the May versus the 005. As I posted somewhere after I wrote my comparative review, I found the May's  separation and smooth texture very appealing, but ultimately lacking the fine resolution of the 005. Also I felt over time that the separation and layering of the music was achieved by sculpting the sound as an artist would use charcoal shading. Real music yields separation between instruments when the listener is close. As the listener moves further back from the stage, the sound remains palpable and 3d but not separated. Therefore, as appealing as the May sound may be, it is manipulated and unnatural. Since my preference is realistic sound, I prefer the 005.

Interesting... Thanks @sns and @dbb 

So 005 =/< May maybe?

May =/< Tambaqui maybe?

But 005 < May < Tambaqui in price (as always 😂)!

Yeah, probably gonna just wait this out, but wish I could get the 005 and Tambaqui side by side to really just let them shine and see what my ears/brain think.