Oh geez. Just saw this thread was started almost a year ago.
hope your still loving the chinook!
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Looking for a tube phono pre
Looking for a tube phono pre in the 2500 to 3k price range. Currently running a Sutherland Insight LPS. Using a PrimaLuna EVO 400 integrated and VPI Prime scout with Hana ML. I have a Chinook on order at Upscale but they are dragging their feet and I have read some reliability issue post with the Chinooks, so I can cancel the order. Anyone compare the Rogue to a Chinook? Thanks
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Not too many years ago I bought into the Mr Nixie DIGNA Phonostage, as the earliest Model Released, I had read too much positives about it, not to arrange a Home Trial. As a Design for a Phon' it has over the past few years evolved and is available in new guises, that are much better for the end user. The Model I bought was a early design and not as adaptable as the most recent, I needed a EE to carry out a modification, where the Mod' enabled the E88CC / 6922 Tube to be used. Tube Rolling took the earliest Model of this Phon' to a elevated level of performance, certain Vintage Tubes were just stunning in use with this Phon'. I took this Phon' to Bake Off's and discovered it was very comfortable in the Upper Value Phon' demonstrations, I have heard it hold its own in a lineup of Phon's where the Values were ranging from £3K - £5K+. At one Bake Off there was a small group of the overall attendees who could not give it enough appraisal for the Performance and Value. My Local HiFi Group were so impressed, they had it for their use as a long term loan, to be used as the reference Phon' for Vinyl Source Demo' experiences for quite a few months, the DIGNA kept winning favour and for the Performance / Value Ratio, it was being reported by the Group to be quite capable, and is fending off the Phon's made available, both Valve and SS across this period. For myself to have it Superseded and used a 'second in line' Phonostage. I had a Commissioned Bespoke Valve Design produced. Which as a result of the R&D, ended up with a host of boutique matched components to get the Phon' to the Standard that I was wanting for my own use. The DIGNA was a comparative Phon' used during the Phon' Prototype Design and Build. There were DIGNA Sonic Traits, I did not want to be without. The Designer /Builder of my Phon' was producing my Phon' as one of two Prototypes, a Company was interested in having the Phon' Design on their Product Range. My Phon' as stated was finished with matched Boutique Components, along with a improvement change to the Power Supply, due to the design being honed to suit my unique preferences. The other Prototype was produced using very recognised quality components that were all matched (Matched to myself means discards of components and added costs to get the correct matching). The Power Supply was as per the original design. The Company prior to COVID were very impressed with the Prototype were willing to produce a Casing to their wanted design and take it to the Munich HiFi Show as Item with a asking price of £10K as a base model with further upgrade options if the Customer wished for them to be made available. Both the Phon' Designer /Builder and myself were without doubt my Prototype was the better Phon', but only to be achieved at a increased Build Cost. The Local HiFi Group have had my Bespoke Built Phon' and the DIGNA side by side in Comparison on the Groups 'go to' System. The General Consensus is the DIGNA is a substantial competitor and is not a bettered Phonostage across the entirety of the presentation, it shines out as an attraction in many areas of a replay. I am in Total Agreement. COVID changed a lot of things and the Company interested in the Phon's did not maintain their interest. At some point the Company reignited their interest, but wanted a Design a little further from a Typical Design, which I believe I am correct in saying was a Transformer Coupled Design. An individual in the Local HiFi Group was made known the Prototype built along side my one was up for sale to raise funds for the New Design, and they secured the purchase, at a much better price than having one commission built, and still have the Power Supply and Component Upgrade Options if they ever feel the need. Again the New to the Group Prototype Phon' has been compared to the DIGNA and even though with a different sonic, the Group assessment is that it is a Parity Phon', in relation to impressive performance, but the DIGNA has a leaner side to the sonic. I totally agree with the overall assessments. Until packing away the Analogue Set Up for Storage, I was to use the DIGNA regularly. I like it that much. When used with a DIY Built Head Amp of a easy to access Design, I get loaned a version of this Head Amp model, the DIGNA is Jaw Droppingly Good. I've had the Helicopter on 'The Wall Album' pass through the Roof and Land in Front Of Myself. The special effect embedded into the 'Amused to Death Album' have been so life like real. Soundstages have no boundaries, Supercars roaring throughout the length of the home, A Animal Pulled Sleigh, detected way outside of the Room and then in front of the listener to leave the room and seemingly travel another substantial distance, and last but not least, the Growl in the ear from close proximity, I have caught many with that one, watching for the listener in the Hotseat to look for the animal. The DIGNA with the Head Amp is able to catch me with the Growl. I have taken the 'Amused to Death' Album to nearly all Phon' demo's experienced and when able to be used, not one Phon' is doing what the DIGNA does with the Head Amp. If the Forums are visited where there is support for the DIGNA, it does not take a lot to discover there are those who have compared it to upmarket Phon' Brands and it is well documented that some are of the opinion it is a match for a Aesthetix Rhea. With the Monies being suggested as the Budget for a New Phon', the DIGNA is placed very comfortably into it.
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Late to the party but I would recommend a used Zesto 1.2. I used one for a few years and then went up to the Zesto Deluxe II which has balanced I/O and better SUTs but is a lot more expensive. The 1.2 is dead quiet, dynamic, not tubey and just flat out a great sounding bargain. Reliable and cheap to run. |
I love the aesthetix Io but settled for the Herron, call him up and have him configure for audiophile (he has two tube configurations). For the price you can’t go wrong. I went down the rabbit hole in 2016 and have probably dropped $45k into my system including 1500 LPs, so be prepared to stay within your limits! |
Your post caught my eye since I have a Herron VTPH-2A; " I've had the Herron VTPH-2A and the Hagerman Trumpet MC. The Herron is very neutral and detailed and low noise. The Trumpet is very warm, open, beautiful sounding. Doesn't try to be as neutral as the Herron, but I love that kind of romantic sound. It definitely sounds like tubes doing tube stuff. Low noise but not as much as the Herron. The Ares (like all Rogue gear) is an interesting mix of clean non-tube sounds, almost some SS like qualities, and then some tube sound qualities (the Blue CineMag adds some warmth and body so that was a good choice). The Herron does that too (with JFET front end) but is more refined and even handed. All of these 3 stages are extremely flexible with gain and loading options! The Hagerman through wonderful front switches. You will have to change tubes to unlock some of the extra gain levels for the Herron and Ares. The Ares uses DIP switches (ugh) for loading and the Herron uses optional RCA plugs which you have to get from Keith ". I was looking for a 2nd Phono Stage since I desire to run a Stereo & Mono TT. Long story short and Thanks to you I purchased the Hagerman Trumpet MC which arrived before Christmas. I am extremely impressed with it and I can now understand why there are so many Excellent Comments out there. I view the Hagerman as an Overachiever for the price. |
@sokogear Never said I was unhappy. Sutherland is a fabulous pre for the money. Yes its detailed and dynamic. I am running tubes for amplification and just wanted tubes on the phono as well. I received my Chinook and its also very clean and detailed and very dynamic, full body is how I would put it. Bass is very extended. What it really adds over the Sutherland is depth in soundstage, layers upon layers of depth. Its also wider and more holographic soundstage and its just getting burned in yet. Nothing at all wrong or unhappy with the Sutherland though. |
Another recommendation for Zesto. I have owned the Andros 1.2 for almost 7 years and have enjoyed it a great deal. It sounds wonderful, has been 100% reliable, is easily adjusted and has the flexibility for loading and gain to accommodate just about any cartridge. A used Andros 1.2 would be well within your price range and even a used Andros 2, which has the new power supply, could be had at the upper end of your price range or close to it. |
I recently purchased the Yoshino EAR Phono Classic (or Phono Box in Europe) and I will vouch for its quality. A definite step up from my long-time friend, the first iteration of the Acoustic-Signature Tango. Best part for a person who hates to jump through a lot of hoops just to play records - it's got ZERO dip switches. You get different gain from the MM or MC button in the back and it's perfect for most cartridges. You can fine-tune yourself into an insane asylum while I'll be pulling another record out of its sleeve. |
I bought a used Zesto Line Stage preamp and it is absolutely the best gear I have ever owned. They specialize in phono preamps, check them out. I sent my unit in for some upgrades and their service is the best. 1st class all the way. When the time comes for me to get back into vinyl I will be looking for a used Zesto |
@pakatsuleas I have owned a dozen phono stages over the last 40 years… starting at $200 and now with my Audio Research Reference 3 ($17K)… every penny you put into your Phonostage (assuming well chosen, not just on price alone) is worth it… generally up to the cost of your TT and if future oriented beyond. It is an itty bitty signal… carefully capturing it and amplifying it to line level is critical. $2K is justified…. Maybe a used ARC? |
The Telefunken's I got off of eBay I believe, maybe AudioMart. There are a few good re-branded Telefunken smooth plates you can find, and are usually a good deal as they are not stamped with the Telefunken logo on the glass. The Brimar's I got off of Audiomart by a private seller, but were origiianlly sold by Upscale Audio, and sold in their original boxes. |
@jmphotography I suggest clicking the buy button. Things go fast from their web site. You don't have to pay when you do, and you can always change your mind after talking to them, it just puts you first in line. |
I’m surprised you’re having an issue with Upscale, they’ve always been great to me. They must be waiting for stock from Manley? That said I’ve bought some really nice used AQ Wild Blue Yonder (expensive) cables from Echo hifi and they’re great to deal with! Definitely worth keeping tabs on their used/FS ads. |
@big_greg Thanks, I sent Echo a message |
The Chinook is a really nice phono stage for the price. I bought mine pre-owned in 2018 and it has seen a lot of use with no issues. I'd cancel your order with Upscale and jump on this https://echohifi.com/details/17222/Manley-Laboratories_Chinook. They won't drag their feet, it will be shipped out tomorrow. I eventually upgraded to a Herron VTPH-2A, but they are now unobtainable. I still use the Chinook every morning while getting ready for work. |
@jmphotography I also have the ModWright PH9.0X & it is wonderful. It sounded great even with the basic stock JJ tubes but I switched them for NOS military Tesla & it's now amazing! Excellent communication from Dan as well. |
Yea, you can save a lot of money and get wonderful sound with the Hagerman Trumpet MC. I added 4 Telefunken smooth plate (Dynaco branded) 12AX7’s and 2 NOS Brimar 12AU7’s to mine, and it is very nice indeed. Added to the overall cost, but still under $2k. After reading @mulveling positive review of the Hagerman, I jumped on one, and glad I did. |
@jmphotography look for a used NVO tubed phono they don't come on the market much but worth to keep an eye out for one. Super quite and very versatile. |
Based on the quoted information in bold print, one cannot have an opinion about "electronic azimuth adjustment", because there is not one word of explanation contained in that paragraph. Lots of hi-gain phono stages use cascode input circuits; I own 3 of them, in fact. The choice of that input topology does not per se address azimuth adjustment, whether built with solid state or tube devices. Apart from the mention about minimizing crosstalk, which is the function of azimuth adjustment, I still don't know how it works without introducing some complex circuitry to modulate the very low voltage signal from a cartridge; actually adjusting azimuth at the headshell would be a better choice. I guess that since Fosgate did design the Fozgometer, perhaps he has incorporated some of that circuitry into the input stage. Interesting. And obviously, he knows more than I do. |
If one can't or doesn't know how to adjust azimuth, they should be enjoying their Fluance (nice tables for the money - not a knock), not looking at $3K tube phono stages. It's certainly not "an advantage over any phono stage". This just seems gimmicky, like a faux carbon fiber top. OP, there are many solid tube choices in this range that should give you awesome sonics. I've owned the Rogue like 4 times, the big deal there is to get one with the BLUE CineMag 1254 SUT. All the Magnums have Blue, and a few of the non-Magnums were also upgraded to Blue. The RED CineMag 3440A suck. I mean, not mincing words, they really suck. There's also a new Ares II version (supersedes the prior version) you should be aware of - I haven't heard it myself but it's supposed to represent a solid step forward. I've had the Herron VTPH-2A and the Hagerman Trumpet MC. The Herron is very neutral and detailed and low noise. The Trumpet is very warm, open, beautiful sounding. Doesn't try to be as neutral as the Herron, but I love that kind of romantic sound. It definitely sounds like tubes doing tube stuff. Low noise but not as much as the Herron. The Ares (like all Rogue gear) is an interesting mix of clean non-tube sounds, almost some SS like qualities, and then some tube sound qualities (the Blue CineMag adds some warmth and body so that was a good choice). The Herron does that too (with JFET front end) but is more refined and even handed. All of these 3 stages are extremely flexible with gain and loading options! The Hagerman through wonderful front switches. You will have to change tubes to unlock some of the extra gain levels for the Herron and Ares. The Ares uses DIP switches (ugh) for loading and the Herron uses optional RCA plugs which you have to get from Keith. I've also got a Sonic Frontiers Phono 1SE+, which at least superficially is like the Chinook with a quad of 6922 and a JFET front end. It runs at 60dB gain, and it's VERY fussy about cartridge matching. Any cartridge around 0.5mV sounds AWESOME on this stage (I assume this extends up to ~ 0.8mV before overload worries). But cartridges with lower output like 0.3mV Koetsus fall totally flat - lacking dynamics and just generally sounding like a bore (the Koetsus sound wonderful on those other 3 stages). I notice the standard Chinook also has 60dB gain. Don't know if that applies to the Chinook. The Hagerman has a JFET front end too but has enough max gain (68dB) to work extremely well with 0.3mV cartridges (I've tried it!).
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"What the heck is “electronic azimuth adjustment ?" lewm- I almost purchased one a couple years ago as a back up. Copied from distributor page: Back Story of the F 159: Actually an interesting unit for the price. The one I was looking at was sold. It's a hybrid. SS/tube. I use Foz's older signature all tube unit. This Black Ice caught my attention because of the Foz association. |
@audiosaurusrex thank you, that’s one I did not have on my list, but now I certainly do. |
@jmphotography You should check out the Modwright PH9.0X stunning phono pre. I use it with my Acoustic Signature Triple X and Umami Red. It's a little more than your budget but totally worth it |