I always try to keep my posts constructive, but there is something that regularly goes on here that I think is detrimental to our hobby - A newbie has a simple question and a bunch of neurotic geezers (of which I include myself) jump on the guy with a million rules and rituals he must follow to achieve his goal, which ends up discouraging the guy right out of hobby. There was one analog thread on static where I recommended Gruv Glide and you geezers started in with so much BS- humidifiers, move to another climate, expensive gimmicks, etc, that GG would kill him and his records. The end result? By the end of the thread, he sold his analog rig because he couldn't deal with the stress. In a recent digital thread, you guys are recommending a newbie buy 20 year old transports. All this does is just make newbies so stressed out that you'll drive them to MP3s. Newbies need simple answers, commensurate with their experience level. Buy a Rega table, screw in a Rega cartridge and play records. They have plenty of time to turn into us. Somehow we survived, listening to our Sansui receivers and JBL L-100s in bedrooms thick with pot smoke and spilled Boone's Farm. And we made it. Sometimes I'm amazed as well. Let the young have fun while they can. Be well.
Though I'm a newbie to the forum (lurked on and off for a few years) I can say I've been a hobbiest of more years than I can remember. That does not mean I don't need advise or guidance from time to time. So generally, when I look for said advice I try to skip the BS parts and focus on where the meaty answers are. Snarky or "fan boy" responses serve no real value to a new comer other than discouragement or teaching to emulate the same in the future.
It is tiring but that seems to be the nature of today's internet based communications.
You are not a newbie, and your mission (if you wish to accept it) is to find a single discouraging post I have made to a newcomer aside from Kenjit and a few other assorted trolls.
PSS:
Who would have thought that someone supposedly living in Washington state would be sooo sentitive about a cherry picker post?
Tell ya what dekay, you show me where someone spontaneously started a thread for the express purpose of apologizing for the way you have been mistreated and complimenting you on all the help you have provided. Your comment by the way is exactly the sort of mistreatment that thread is meant to apologize for. Started by exactly the sort of person you and the others are pretending to want to do better for. What roasts your buns is I am actually doing it. And you know it. Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah. You show me that thread where people are like that about you. Then we can talk. Until then I will thank you to move along, please.
And, stay clear of that guy who yells "shiller" all the time.
He only does it about the shillers that push $$$$ "snake oil" relentlessly at every opportunity. And new popup members that post
unashamedly and rave about $$$$ "snake oil" products with no guilt.
david3838- I’ve been following all your postings and comments on Audiogon for the past 2 years and just wanted to say Thanks for passing on your knowledge on all things audio. I’ve learned a lot from your comments and they have helped my understanding of audio gear immensely.
Scott22- First off as a new guy with no experience and a limited budget I found this site quite by accident and ended up purchasing my speakers and integrated amp here. Since then I’ve been a regular reader and occasional responder. What I have observed is how helpful the members are in general and I’ve observed MC, in particular, has been a most consistent truth-teller( as far as I know) with an acerbic wit.
sj00884- Unsolicited i asked him his thoughts on improvements for my system. He offered them, I took them and viola, there was marked improvement. Very thankful he took the time given my modest setup.
Yes totally agree. We were all at one time "newbies" to the hobby. For myself there was no Internet to seek information. I had to learn by listening to equipment at audio stores. Few exist now. Sales people. Local audiophiles. Audio magazines. Then spending money to figure it out for myself. However, now there is TMI. Too Much Information. Being new to the hobby they may not be able to separate the subjective / objective view points and sarcasms to aid him or her in their quest. . To add to a prior thread, a "Woman" co worker started me into Higher Fi and the art of audio reproduction. I don't know if I should thank her or curse her.
This thread, though well intentioned, has pointed out that this place has morphed into some kind of internet gauntlet, with the nice people on one side and the not so nice ones opposite them.
If a newbie wants to run that gauntlet, my advice is to run close to the nice ones and ignore the others as they swing for the fences while aiming at your head.
And, stay clear of that guy who yells "shiller" all the time.
Bill - well said brother. We really do need a visit ;-). But don’t expect any quarter on the track, I would still bump ya into the Armco… ( not in an F car
chayro It was Sherwood and KLH (when the names meant something) but you got the rest right! styleman I've been here for years doing just that. Most of the time I will get a laugh, shake my head at the negativity or just learn. Rarely will I post because if I have a question it gets answered sooner or later or I look it up. Since I am the student and the forum is the prof I don't have a lot to contribute, and that is reflected in my minuscule post count. Having said all that, I read AG every day.
@styleman- at the risk of sounding patronizing, when the geezers like me came up, there was no Internet, so what we learned was all a function of reading, meeting with other audiophiles, hanging and listening as a quasi-social event. Even if the get-together had a purpose- to evaluate some piece of equipment or listen to some new material, not all was serious business. The last part is something that I think is missing today- there are clubs, and there are people who socialize (now that Covid appears to be receding), around hi-fi and music, but I think that’s less common now. Today, I suspect it is more of a solitary pursuit and the Net can yield products, reviews and fora like this one for what can be a worldwide community rather than just a local one. But in many cases, this becomes an isolated pursuit- you listening in your room. None of us have a "linear" knowledge base- at least for me, it’s pockets of knowledge that have been accumulated over the years. I think that’s true even of trained engineers and other scientists. This is a multi-disciplinary field and no one knows everything. In almost all cases, for me, the learning came through seat time, backed up with research (not as accessible then as it is now) and comparisons, experimentation, discussion and more listening. None of that excuses someone being rude to you, or having their ego bent out of shape and taking it out on you. If you are in a town where there are others interested in the pursuit, it’s worth seeking them out and getting to hear some systems in other peoples’ homes. It’s fun, it’s far more instructive than "virtual" interactions and you can develop enduring relationships. In fact, there are several people on this site (and others) with whom I’ve communicated over the years who I would like to visit and finally meet in person. The shared interest in audio/music becomes a bond that is often only part of the relationship.
I'm a newbie. Initially I got into trouble with one of your veterans, when in search of the right power cord and an understanding of connectors for 15 amp and 20 amp cords (really basic stuff for me), I pushed back on a suggestion that I install a dedicated 20 amp line to my system in my house. I didn't want to go to that extra expense but he pushed. So I pushed gently back but he got insulted - I apologized and that was it. I felt I had intruded into an elite club where I didn't belong.
Since then I passively check the forum everyday for relevant information. The replies often reflect a sharp sense of humor. But in substance, a lot of it is over my head as the members have equipment I've never heard of. So I sort out what I find useful - finding out about Benchmark amplifiers, Townshend speaker stands for example - and ignore the rest of the high end chatter. Newbies should just follow this practice - ignore the smartasses on this forum and glean that which is useful in one's circumstance.
Music evokes the emotions differently for every person, but the commonality is that it always will. I’m new to this hobby but then again I’m not…
I spent almost 10 years attending audio shows, reading forums like this one, and going to boutique audio shops demoing equipment, listening to different combinations of gear. I was searching for that “perfect” setup. It knew it had to exist right? However technology evolves and I could never quite convince myself to be satisfied, because there was something always better, there had to be. So the search went on and on and on. Unfortunately, I was missing the whole point, which was to enjoy music. Just last year I circled back to one of the original shops I found a decade prior and the shop owner remembered me and was like ‘what the hell are you doing, you need to start enjoying your music, you’ve wasted how much time trying to perfect a system?!’ He called me out on my unending search for perfection. I did what he said and I’m loving my music.
To all the “newbies” out there like me (and maybe you’re not really a newbie)…ignore the arguments about what components are better and why you should or shouldn’t buy a piece of gear. Just buy a system that fits your budget, tweak it over time, don’t worry about perfection because it doesn’t exist, and enjoy your music! Best piece of advice I’ve received.
Boone’s Farm was what we use to get the girls drunk and horny. Preferred hash over pot but yes room was smoking. I think back and get depressed on how much of my life I missed out on this hobby. Don’t get me wrong I love music and have been enjoying since I was 5. I look back are realize that I spent most of my life hearing music and not listening. Sitting out of the sweet spot thinking that this is the bomb, one speaker crammed in a corner the other hanging from the ceiling. With my current set up I will play the same album from yesteryear and it does not even sound like the same band. Back to subject is yes we don’t need to discourage the “newbies” I think half of the sarcasm is done in just to play with the seasoned posters (poking the bears). This a lot of the time is directed at those we play with and the “newbie” is just Collateral damage. Another point is they need to go through the same struggles we did to truly enjoy the journey and get to where we are today in the hobby, we had no threads to post questions even thought we had the same dumb questions. Now get off my lawn!!!
I have a younger friend in his teens that has just starting to get into audio---he has a hand-me down stereo from the early 90s. To him, it's the world. He's starting to buy vinyl now and has started asking me about updating his stereo. I find it so much fun helping him and being with him on his new journey. I doubt he would be asking me to help him out if I was critical of his system or judgmental. I respect most people in this forum, but there will always be bad apples.
@amg Audiogon search engine is good, but the hard part is knowing how to a search phrase that is accurate enough and also doesn't return too many results. My ability to utilize the search engine only increased as I knew what to search for. That problem, in a nutshell, is my rationale for an FAQ category.
What is wrong with a newbie starting their “research “ here? What are the alternatives? Equipment magazines tend to be aimed at the true believers, not at entry level curious. If the newbie wants vinyl then after reading Stereophile they might think they need to spend $200K after reading Fremer. Magazines also tend to reflect the biases of their advertisers. The best thing is for a newbie to throw mud at a wall in a site like this, get a variety of opinions, see what opinions make sense to them, and go from there. With the loss of stores, the chances of a demo of anything are slim and so the opinions of others are now increasingly important
Don't you wish you still had your vintage JBL L-100s or were still a newbie yourself? The original L-100s were some great speakers for fledgling audiophiles. I can't remember if mine had the orange or blue cubed grills. Newbies, please pardon the nostalgia. You're always welcome here, by most of us anyway.
I am new. Had a long hiatus and now able to get back to my beloved hobby. Its a different world. There are not 5 stereo stores with in 10 minutes of me like there used to be. I am not lucky enough to have really reliable local dealers. So I watch you tube reviews and come to forums like this. I do appreciate the advice, noble has been particularly helpful. I am a major jokester however, I will admit sometimes it is exhausting having to go thru 2 to 3 pages to get your answers. I do get the answers and the experience and advice you in-part is priceless…so thank you!
Like liamowen Posted.. "Plug my Apheta 2 into my Rega RP10 and listen to records. Has worked for several years now..." - I Guess He Wants Everybody to Know Exactly what that all is? especially a Newbie??"
Like me saying: "My JA200 is great with my Coherence PreAmp tied into my AE Reference and Signature Speakers and my Kimber Cables especially if I use my Altis Transport and my New DAC since the older was a lower sampling rate.." which the JA is a Jadis.. AND Point is! We just want help Sometimes w/o having to Google the Gear and saying "Oh, Wow! look at what he has and how much Money he spent.."
WOW! I agree with the Original post! too bad us Folks can't just give a Good Clear Concise REPLY! as with this string Everybody is All Over the Board.. to be Honest, it would be Nice for a Newbie to get a General Recommendation, not so many "Hey I Got The Most Expensive/Name Dropping and then acting Real Technical about Everything for or to the Newbie.. Sorta Sad when they just want a basic answer.. I suppose??
I would always suggest twenty year old gear because that was the last of the good stuff made before the change to all surface mount computer parts in everything.
@hikevint, afraid to ask a question? What's the absolute worst thing that can happen to you if you asked a question? Conquer your fears and at the very least get your feet wet.
"But that is what it is. If you want a firm foundation in the electro/acoustics of music reproduction then reading a few books is a better source than an internet forum".
No doubt. To clarify, I was thinking of a "common sense foundation" rather than a deep dive into physics, which could prove highly intimidating-- general guidelines for the person who is curious about experiencing better than mid-fi but unsure how to get started.
Thank you so much for this. I've been lurking in the shadows of this site but never joined specifically because of that, I'm afraid to ask a question. I signed up right after reading this just so I could post this. Thank you
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Welcome to AGon.. It can be a lot of fun, They unlock me twice a day.. :-) Regards
Thank you so much for this. I've been lurking in the shadows of this site but never joined specifically because of that, I'm afraid to ask a question. I signed up right after reading this just so I could post this. Thank you
They are always welcome, but they need also to keep blanket "voodoo" tall tales/remarks down down a little, otherwise they look like plants shilling for "snake oil" companies
It seems to me far more likely that many beginner's attempts to gain
some sort of reliable foundation or foothold will lead them to conclude
that this hobby is rife with claims, counter-claims, arguments,
contradictions, inconsistencies and unknowns.
But that is what it is. If you want a firm foundation in the electro/acoustics of music reproduction then reading a few books is a better source than an internet forum.
YUP.. Unless it's a stress post.. I just dropped a set of cables and blew up my system.. those post can seem a little urgent.. I did it for the first time 2-3 years ago.. I must have sounded NUTTIER than usual..
Mercy that was a bad day.. Right in there with "penicillin for WHAT?" days..
"If you want a serious answer, then ask a serious question. People on this forum truly try to be helpful, but sometimes the OP should do some research before posting".
Many try, yes. Others appear consistently more interested in pushing their personal agendas. And while I agree that's it's difficult to help someone when they can't seem to clearly state what it is they need help with, it doesn't hurt to keep in mind that such people may be hampered by the fact that they simply "don't know what they don't know". I don't think it's necessarily accurate or fair to assume that someone who is ignorant is not "serious".
You speak of "research" as though audio is a field characterized by great concensus. It seems to me far more likely that many beginner's attempts to gain some sort of reliable foundation or foothold will lead them to conclude that this hobby is rife with claims, counter-claims, arguments, contradictions, inconsistencies and unknowns.
hilde45's suggestion that an FAQ category for beginners be created might be a way to sidestep some of the controversy and static. If such a resource were to be established, then newbies could be directed to it, straightaway, without trying anyone's patience or triggering a bunch of responses that fly way over the OP's head.
If you want a serious answer, then ask a serious question. People on this forum truly try to be helpful, but sometimes the OP should do some research before posting.
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