2. misc-audio
  3. 168015-1635

Lay Off the Newbies!

I always try to keep my posts constructive, but there is something that regularly goes on here that I think is detrimental to our hobby - A newbie has a simple question and a bunch of neurotic geezers (of which I include myself) jump on the guy with a million rules and rituals he must follow to achieve his goal, which ends up discouraging the guy right out of hobby. There was one analog thread on static where I recommended Gruv Glide and you geezers started in with so much BS- humidifiers, move to another climate, expensive gimmicks, etc, that GG would kill him and his records.  The end result? By the end of the thread, he sold his analog rig because he couldn't deal with the stress.  In a recent digital thread, you guys are recommending a newbie buy 20 year old transports.  All this does is just make newbies so stressed out that you'll drive them to MP3s.  Newbies need simple answers, commensurate with their experience level.  Buy a Rega table, screw in a Rega cartridge and play records.  They have plenty of time to turn into us.  Somehow we survived, listening to our Sansui receivers and JBL L-100s in bedrooms thick with pot smoke and spilled Boone's Farm.  And we made it.  Sometimes I'm amazed as well.  Let the young have fun while they can. Be well.  
chayro

Showing 9 responses by stuartk

stuartk
3,174 posts
 
Here is my take. . . 

When a newbie naively asks "What is the best ___ (insert component)?", it seems to me that the most helpful response would be one that encourages the newbie to trust his/her own ears, because ultimately what matters is what sounds good to them-- not to the rest of us!

However this rarely seems to hapen. Most often, they are inundated with suggestions from posters who are passionate fans of X or Y brand, which may or may not sound good to the OP, which the OP may or may not be able to afford or even demo for themselves. 

Even worse, an OP asks about X and very quickly, the focus is changed to Y.  

Even worse, in my view, are those who constantly respond with denegrating remarks-- "wire is wire"-- "bits are bits" -- "digital is crap"--
which is all about their egotistic drive to prove they are somehow superior. The impact of these polemics upon newbies is hardly likely to be positive.

It would be most useful to newbies if we all checked our egos before responding.  
 






stuartk
3,174 posts
 
@cissado:

Yes!  Great post!  

@david_ten:

That learning necessarily involves difficulty is a given. . . in every aspect of life! 

Just because difficulties cannot be avoided does not mean one must always learn "the hard way".  It is possible, in many situations, to gain knowledge without taking the most difficult path. The road may be rocky and washed out in places, but if one can help steer a newbie in such a way that they avoid falling off th eedge and into a deep gorge, I'd advocate doing that. Saying "well, they're gonna have to take some hard knocks, anway-- leave 'em be" is devoid of compassion, to say the least. 

 cissado did an excellent job of describing what I advocate-- I don't believe I can improve upon his post. 


stuartk
3,174 posts
 
@hilde45:

Excellent idea-- at least you care enough to have made the effort!  

I may be mistaken, but it seems to me, when I first sarting asking for advice here, a good many years ago, there wasn't nearly as much snarkiness in evidence. 
stuartk
3,174 posts
 
"If you want a serious answer, then ask a serious question. People on this forum truly try to be helpful, but sometimes the OP should do some research before posting".

Many try, yes. Others appear consistently more interested in pushing their personal agendas. And while I agree that's it's difficult to help someone when they can't seem to clearly state what it is they need help with, it doesn't hurt to keep in mind that such people may be hampered by the fact that they simply "don't know what they don't know".  I don't think it's necessarily accurate or fair to assume that someone who is ignorant is not "serious". 

You speak of "research" as though audio is a field characterized by great concensus. It seems to me far more likely that many beginner's attempts to gain some sort of reliable foundation or foothold will lead them to conclude that this hobby is rife with claims, counter-claims, arguments, contradictions, inconsistencies and unknowns.  

hilde45's suggestion that an FAQ category for beginners be created might be a way to sidestep some of the controversy and static. If such a resource were to be established, then newbies could be directed to it, straightaway, without trying anyone's patience or triggering a bunch of responses that fly way over the OP's head.
stuartk
3,174 posts
 
"...only the self aware with some emotional intelligence will process it and perhaps….act on it…"

+1

stuartk
3,174 posts
 
@onhwy61: 

"But that is what it is. If you want a firm foundation in the electro/acoustics of music reproduction then reading a few books is a better source than an internet forum".

No doubt. To clarify, I was thinking of a "common sense foundation" rather than a deep dive into physics, which could prove highly intimidating-- general guidelines for the person who is curious about experiencing better than mid-fi but unsure how to get started. 


stuartk
3,174 posts
 
'Regarding the subject of your post, I’m not sure it just has to do with newbies. It seems like it’s a case of hurting people hurting people".

Uncledemp-- you make an excellent point. After all, one can find the same sort of thing on just about any online forum, these days.

What was once known as "common courtesy" has morphed into "common discourtesy".  



stuartk
3,174 posts
 
@td_dayton:

"... at some point the "wah they're being too rude. what happened to Civility??"crowd has to get over themselves..."

"Sometimes replies can betray insecurities revealing an unexamined life".

stuartk
3,174 posts
 
@td_dayton:

"@stuartk i agree with that, which is why it really doesn't matter what a jerk says - often they're just at war with themselves and take it out on someone they think they're better than. if a few rude comments puts someone off from pursuing a new hobby, they weren't that invested to begin with. in life you meet rude people all the time, and if you can't simply shrug and move on then you're gonna have a rough time. don't see why a stereo forum is any different".

 I agree. 
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