I always try to keep my posts constructive, but there is something that regularly goes on here that I think is detrimental to our hobby - A newbie has a simple question and a bunch of neurotic geezers (of which I include myself) jump on the guy with a million rules and rituals he must follow to achieve his goal, which ends up discouraging the guy right out of hobby. There was one analog thread on static where I recommended Gruv Glide and you geezers started in with so much BS- humidifiers, move to another climate, expensive gimmicks, etc, that GG would kill him and his records. The end result? By the end of the thread, he sold his analog rig because he couldn't deal with the stress. In a recent digital thread, you guys are recommending a newbie buy 20 year old transports. All this does is just make newbies so stressed out that you'll drive them to MP3s. Newbies need simple answers, commensurate with their experience level. Buy a Rega table, screw in a Rega cartridge and play records. They have plenty of time to turn into us. Somehow we survived, listening to our Sansui receivers and JBL L-100s in bedrooms thick with pot smoke and spilled Boone's Farm. And we made it. Sometimes I'm amazed as well. Let the young have fun while they can. Be well.
chayro Wow! You must have had a great scholarship to be able to afford to spill your Boone's Farm. TeeHee Good Points, though! Be Nice , everyone. Troublesome or expensive suggestions do nothing but notify us that you are an a......e.
Not a fan of newbie bashing. We were all there at some point. However, there are some self proclaimed "seasoned" audiophiles in this forum who need a good old fashioned come-to-jesus thrashing for being pretty obtuse sometimes.
Makes me think of many years back, just starting in home audio. I found an audio dealer (sad there are so few now) about 90 miles away. Even though they carried some very expensive stuff, they were more interested in working with me to build a system that worked for me, in my home and within my budget, rather than pushing expensive gear or personal opinions. None of my questions were considered trivial and all of their answers and responses were considerate. This is how we should help - keeping our advise level-headed, unbiased, pertinent and considerate. Also we should keep in mind that we may not have all the answers and that there are others here who may offer good advise as well......Jim
Why do you like Rega cartridges?Just because they fit easily?
I am a Rega fan, and appreciate its simplicity, quality and fantastic value, gimbal arms, etc. but would not use their cartridges. If someone posing a question is buying or has bought a table from a dealer, no doubt any reputable Rega dealer has plenty of options for other cartridges that will work fine. They know how to install them and add a spacer if needed, set the tracking force and anti-skating, and should include that in the price.
I have read plenty of really insane stuff being bloated here, but the Rega cartridge arguement is not part of that group. I assume the OP since he is a newbie would buy a cartridge new from a local dealer who can help them, not used off of a web site to be left on their own, with a product that IMHO really should not be purchased used.
I rarely post here, but do read a bit. I'm active on another audio forum.
I'm not a newbie, but I also don't have tens of thousands of dollars tied up in audio gear. I actually have other hobbies that take up my time, interest, and disposable income.
There is definitely a condescending tone from some members if you aren't "in the club" or don't have expensive gear.
I did say some, not all members.
Best way to kill a hobby is to discourage people from entering it.
Reminds me of an advertisement for DARE coffee flavoured milk in Australia. The daughter arrives on the back of a Harley with a big burly biker, and the daughter thinks she's got away with bringing home someone her dad would disapprove of. The dad looks out the window, swigs down some Dare coffee milk, and answers the door completely starkers..
The cut shows the biker riding off alone and the daughter none too impressed.
Well heck george they removed my post.. Wonder who got me.. LOL I’m still gonna answer the door naked.. My house, My rules.. I wore a mask. What else you want. Maybe I’ll go with the classic trench coat look and a cigarette holder.
I mean I didn’t even call anybody a booger eatin’ spaz or anything..
I mean the dog, the rabbit, the goat, the chickens they are ALL naked.. The dog answers the door all the time.
Ironic that we search for perfect audio and listen to (mostly) uplifting music but neglect to perfect ourselves and uplift others. Nothing wrong with disagreements and robust discussion but for some their incivility is the beginning and the end.
Jonny! I was a very young mechanic for Henry and Ian at Lolita Automobile Developments for 3 years before getting heavily side tracked into audio electronics and started building huge self contained water cooled Class-A solid state amps that even NP (god) acknowledged. And there’s no problem with what I perceive.
" The best recommendation I can offer to newbies is to search the threads. Yes, it takes a little more work than creating a new thread and allowing responses to collect. However, the effort will be rewarded by returning an unmatched richness of content and discovery."
"
The best recommendation I can offer to newbies is to search the threads. Yes, it takes a little more work than creating a new thread and allowing responses to collect. However, the effort will be rewarded by returning an unmatched richness of content and discovery."
hey george, you know, from a certain perspective the compact disc was "snake oil."
It’s real has technology proof behind it and EE (electronic engineering) etc. "snake oil" has NOTHING! but conmen trying to make huge bucks out of it from the gullible.
hey george, you know, from a certain perspective the compact disc was "snake oil." 😉
and yeah that search feature has been helpful for me and i've enjoyed using it a lot, though i'm on the fence whether it really justifies guys who've been posting here since Bush was president turning into crybabies whenever somebody new asks a newbie question. but like i said before, not a big deal to just shrug and move on either 🍻
I think the biggest barrier to educating yourself is being afraid to ask a stupid question. There are no stupid questions but there are plenty of off-topic, self aggrandising answers. My advice to any newbie would be don't be afraid to ask the questions, ignore the replies that don't help and acknowledge the ones that do. Once the whole thing turns into a pissing contest move on to another thread. Don't give up, do your own research and once you know enough to contribute give a bit back.
"@stuartk i agree with that, which is why it really doesn't matter what a jerk says - often they're just at war with themselves and take it out on someone they think they're better than. if a few rude comments puts someone off from pursuing a new hobby, they weren't that invested to begin with. in life you meet rude people all the time, and if you can't simply shrug and move on then you're gonna have a rough time. don't see why a stereo forum is any different".
I think it would be helpful if posters would specify whether they are 'newbies' at stereo equip in general, or newbies at being an "audiophile". It's an important distinction that will greatly determine the answers you receive in response.
I cringe when I think of some of the responses I gave to folks, years ago, who I thought were real newbies, when if fact they were just 'newbies' to the audiophile thingy.
Dekay I'm a newbie and I didn't find your post to me overly positive. Sure I was asking for it, proposing a silly scenario but the outright personal attacks here and the overall sense of superiority is a turn off. This is a HOBBY about music it's not a religion or a cult to me any way. I'm tough and find a lot of it funny. One of my favorites was someone posting that they didn't have any thoughts on the subject but it was important to let everyone know that. I'm here to connect with people of like interests to learn from others. I have found people on this forum who have opened their homes to a complete stranger. Invited me to talk to them on the phone to discuss things. Why can't this site be more like that and less snarky, junior high school abusive bullying?
Four years ago an indivdual new to audio would have been given good advice on building a great system within the newbie’s budget, whether two channel or home theater. Now there are "expert" habitual posters that makes this not so much the case.
A newbie may not have enough experience to be able to weed out bad advice that is not relevant in the context of their system.
OP you can see I like to cut up (maybe to much), but in all honesty, when a new person ask a question the quality of the question usually determines the quality of the answer.
YOU seem sincere in your effort to make them feel at home, maybe consult with the AG staff and see if you can head up a new topic on the forum to accommodate, "New Comers" "New Guest" "Newbies" "The First Stop".
Maybe a little introduction to the behavior that will be tolerated by all, what won’t be tolerated by ANY and the difference between the two.
There are no rules chiseled in stone, BUT a few.
No "NASTY" name callin’. Be respectful. Curve the political rants. Red, Blue, Neither or ALL. (curve NOT Stop) Its ok to fly your colors, just not in my face. Do unto others as you would have THEM do unto you.
BUT above all, contribute to the forum in a constructive way. Enjoy yourself. Be aware sometime it takes a little intervention on the Staffs part, sometimes on the members part, and sometimes on the EVERYONES part including the "The New Person". Nothing wrong with standing up for yourself in the shadow of a BULLY.
"I’ll be your Huckleberry" against that mean ol "Johnny Ringo"
BUT that is NOT the natures of most AD regulars. Good honest folks..
WELCOME has always been the AG way..
Unfortunately there are SOME that will even take offence to being called a "Newbie". I mean after all they have been turning knobs like the rest of us their whole lives, too..
With great respect and regards to ALL, New or Not..
anyway i am in full agreement with the OP re: older guys acting like a $4000 cleaning system or $2000 isolation accessories are the Only Way to really do it right
@stuartk i agree with that, which is why it really doesn't matter what a jerk says - often they're just at war with themselves and take it out on someone they think they're better than. if a few rude comments puts someone off from pursuing a new hobby, they weren't that invested to begin with. in life you meet rude people all the time, and if you can't simply shrug and move on then you're gonna have a rough time. don't see why a stereo forum is any different
it’s funny how these threads take on a life of their own sometimes. It’s very difficult to make oneself so clear that your message is taken the way it was meant.
from my point of view you're gonna get knowitalls, gatekeepers, general jerks etc in any niche hobby. and it doesn't matter. if you're really into something you'll pursue it no matter how those types treat you. just gotta roll with it - why should a 20yo care if someone who remembers where they were when jfk got shot thinks his system sucks? why should a thousand dollar system guy worry about the opinion of a guy who spent 6 figures and ruined his marriage for this thing? at some point the "wah they're being too rude. what happened to Civility??"crowd has to get over themselves and just keep it moving. 8 out of 10 people are cool towards the newbies like myself and that's good enough imo. just my .02c
it’s funny how these threads take on a life of their own sometimes. It’s very difficult to make oneself so clear that your message is taken the way it was meant. I was never talking about anyone being nasty or snide when a newbie asks a question. My intent was to say that the well-meaning and experienced audiophiles should not overload newbies with so much information that they get scared out of the hobby. This seems to apply to analog more than other subjects, probably because of the way many audiophiles ritualize record cleaning, setup, etc. IMO, it’s not necessary to tell a newbie they need a 4-step 20 minute per lp cleaning ritual or a $3000 ultrasonic machine to enjoy vinyl. For a new person, I think a $300 record cleaning machine and a 1-step fluid is plenty at the beginning and certainly much better than the Discwasher we all used in our youth. That's what I meant.
-Newbies happy/not happy with the 'AG Experience'.... -Existing subject to the same y/n query...🙄
AG as a whole Is a bit more....'uneven' in response to newbies. Generally, relatively courteous...'in forum' discussion amidst the 'locals' to the OPs' query responses can get a bit 'haywire', but...*shrug*
'Long Form Forums' re wires, ICs', why this/that amp, pre, post, speaker(s), etc., ad infinitum probably stunt one into silence....not wanting to incite pixelated piking....
OTOH....so far the majority here is civil to all and any.....until the random response/rant leads to a meltdown of sorts with some or no conclusion/resolution.
...as for 'haywired'...*L* Yup, guilty. Born/bred that way...rather used to it. Not likely to rewire unless breathing stops.... Rather fond of carrying on with that latter activity...;)
... Moanday morning comes too soon...Good whatever, J
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
