K-horn won't fit, any other corner speakers recommended for a big room?

One of the smaller Martin Logans will get you there. 

Audio Note, or for something different, Larsen.

The Cornwall IV would probably work.  Gotten lots of rave reviews.  

Thanks for the input so far.  I am checking out a used pair of ML Prodigy's that look interesting.  I doubt if this is what you meant by the smaller Martin Logans. I'm doing some research on them now.  Most guys are saying that they need some space around them, which unfortunately I do not have.  Always been of fan of electrostats and planars though.

I have heard the Cornwall IV and absolutely love them.  In a different room, the IV is at the top of my list but for this room they are too short and don't pass the WAF test.  As she says, they look too much like a speaker from the 80's.  I cannot disagree with that but I rarely look at my speakers.

I'll check out the used market for Audio Note and Larsen.

WAF is overrated. 

Viking Acoustic Project X or Fantom.  I have the Grande Voix and both are in corners in a room larger than yours.  Big Soundstage!

I remember the K-horn from back in the day- late ’70s. A friend had them set up with vintage Marantz tube gear- 7 preamp, 8b amp and they sounded good. I never lived with them long term, though I heard that system plenty of times over the course of several years.

In researching vintage and early speakers that derived first from the sound for film business, I was led to understand that the K-horn was done as a "cost effective" product first marketed shortly after WWII, without taking away from Paul K’s innovations. Later efforts to improve on a corner horn include the JBL Hartsfield and modern interpretations of that. I don’t really have the front room corners for such a speaker (or for a JBL Paragon which I’d like to hear, along with the Hartsfield and the Classic reproduction of same).

I switched from stats to horns circa 2006-7. I like both types largely because of the transparency of the midrange, but the horns give me more dynamics, the ability to use SET amps (glorious, I use old Lamm ML2 amps). The system uses a modern bass subsystem, described below.

But, I’m in stasis right now, until I can travel, and hear some big Franken-horn systems using vintage elements or designs drawn from some of the earlier efforts. Why?

One of the issues is the nature of the bass (which does not appear to be your primary concern). When I ran Quads back in the day, I supplemented with Decca and later Sequerra ribbons, but adding subs (not as much selection then, pre-home theatre market), it could sound like three different speakers playing at you (I was using ARC tube electronics back in the ’70s and for a while).

I don’t know what your budget is. Some of these speakers, particularly some of the more rarified ones, are not sold in typical retail establishments, but if you avoid things like true, unmolested specimens of WE from the period, you won’t necessarily be paying the tariff for something that is highly collectible (and maybe you will- some of the vintage stuff is highly sought after).

You could do a big speaker system that isn’t a commercial product (or a current one) that delivers something a little different than a modern speaker. This is all in the nature of personal preference plus room acoustics and set up as well as your objectives. I guess at this point, my only suggestion is to not rule out the possibility of something that is quasi-vintage (since you like corner horns) but may able to utilize a better cross-over, and address any consistency issues across the spectrum (coherence is what I’d call it- a seamless presentation).I have exceptional immediacy with a horn type midrange driver (Avantgarde Duo), no crossover, hooked up directly to the Lamm ML2.

Bass- Horns

I have more modern bass, though- for horn loaded woofers and upper bass take space. I use something modern (15" subs, servo controlled,with DSP) to deliver below 55hz. I get very convincing bass that has shape, texture and body-- a very filled in, dimensional delivery of bass that I would judge as "good" if the program material contains it. Yet to my ears, modern bass sounds different than horn loaded bass, which is taut, maybe not so deep in earth moving ability, but has a quality that is very "fast", may not sound anything like a horn, but has a quality all its own. What I’ve done for now is a compromise.

Windows

You can treat these and still have use of the windows when not listening seriously. I don’t have a major problem with glass, but have treated the glass in my room as necessarily to eliminate it as a factor. Room acoustic treatments can get you out of the "audiophile approved" at a price products and into "pro" solutions- there’s a lot more knowledge in that area beyond just home hi-fi. That is readily addressable, though whether you want to use a treated piece of glass as a horn wall would remain a question, perhaps drawing you away from a corner horn as such. You can also baffle these with free standing products that essentially take the place of the "corner’" for the purpose of acoustics.

Where, generally, are you located? This, just because access to some of this stuff may require travel. That’s why I’m in stasis.

Check out a used pair of KEF reference 203/2 or 205/2 if you can find one, they featured corner placement adjustments.

For what it's worth, I listened to K-Horns, La Scala, and Cornwall speakers when I upgraded my system last year. I like how horn speakers reproduce music and I wanted to match them with tube amps. Out of the three, I preferred the La Scala speakers because the music was effortless. The Cornwall speakers do produce the "in your face" type of bass that is expected now. The La Scala bass is present, but it is more relaxed and not so energetic. I supplement my La Scala speakers with a Rythmik servo sub to provide more energy below 60hz. The servo provides nice distortion-less bass that matches the La Scala and tube combination wonderfully. As for the WAF, the La Scala has that mid-century design aesthetic that seems to be popular in home interiors. 

@whart I am completely jealous of those beautiful Avant Garde horn speakers. 

Why don’t you go everywhere with a Ohm and put it where you want. Lot less money, a few models to chose from, easy to pair an amp with. The wife thing that easy you can have mine TOO. She won’t give me mine back.. The little $hit.

Wife easy, good stuff, ay?

I had a pair or two.. Certain situation they are perfect.. What you think?

Best wishes. The wife thing.. really, can we work a deal.. I’ll pay you, how’s that? She comes with food for a week and a suitcase full of shoes. :-)

Regards

Volti Razz

+1 for LA Scala ll, plus subs that is designed for music, not home theater.

I like what whart said in regard to windows. I have Khorns, with window on side wall about 12" in front of speaker. I place removable treatments over window during listening sessions.

Well, given how limited you are in location, I'd strongly suggest you look into tone controls first.

The corner placement is going to cause a severe imbalance of bass to everything else.  You need to reduce the bass output more than control the mid and treble dispersion.  In other words, you need tone controls. 

But to answer the question as asked, the Audio Note speakers are designed for corners and Klipsch Heresy's may also fit your description, but may still need bass reduction. 

BTW, I just looked for pictures, I can't quite tell, but if your bass units are separate or powered you may be able to reduce the power to them separately, by reducing the input to the bass amp or bi-amping and adding a volume control for the bass.

I have a long narrow room, about 15 x 40, with mostly glass along one wall and openings to a hallway an kitchen along the other.  My speakers are about 18 inches from the corners on the narrow front wall.  I replaced my old Ohm Walsh 4s with the 5000 upgrade.  Fantastic.  I have the bass set to medium, and have taken my REL T5 subs out of the system.  Unless I sit in the middle of the living room with the speakers, I don’t think my room will ever be very ideal for pinpoint imaging, so I tried used Ohm Walsh 4s a few years ago.  Haven’t thought of trying anything else since.  They also sound great in the open kitchen, with plenty of bass, at the far end of the room which is essentially the back wall.

Reading the post above, there are 4 “tone controls “ on the 5000’s which enabled me to really get them dialed in and put proper upper midrange in the room for the first time.  It’s hard to imagine a room that would want all the base they are capable of, but my space does have cork floors.

Ohm is a good option. Only because I’ve used, owned or had most the old Klipsch, Altecs, Jensen, WE, JBL and Tannoy speakers, in this house, not other rooms MY rooms. Just because they make mention that they work best in a corner or what ever the manufacture recommend it doesn’t mean they work in your corners or your rooms.

The only problem I’ve had with every horn or semi-horned speaker I’ve ever used. They are tough to get right in the best of rooms. Throwing in all the other weird stuff they DON’T play well with, like anything on a wall that deadens one side and not the other. Most Klipsch speakers like a lively room. They rely on a reflex response. You throw that out of kilter, you’ll measure until the cows come home, it will never image correctly, have a center phantom, or find a good position to listen.

Either your ears aren’t big enough, one (ear) is to small or The sweet spot is in a place you can’t put your head. LOL (between your legs).

You have to be a contortionist to listen to your system..

OHM. It’s mor betta’ (southern yak)

The next problem is going to be able to gain match subs (low sensitivity) with high sensitivity speakers like horns. It never works. Your always fiddling with the gain on the lower one, in this case the sub. Make sure you have a remote on your sub system that will help.. I always matched drivers or had remotes and usually huge passive subs too. 4cf or larger.

Tone control? I don't leave home without it, if you have horns you have to have tone control. PERIOD. It's like letting a baby run around without a dipper. What a mess WITHOUT control.. Get my drift..:-)

Have fun though..:-)

I wouldn't put Logans in corners against the wall, nor any other dipole speaker.

You're on the right track with Khorns, make it work!

Go with newer model Khorns which are fully enclosed and should allow you to pull them off the wall and out of the corner a little. Or, modify an older set.

@rooze I'm with you on the dipole.  I think that any dipoles will require too much space behind and beside them for me to seriously consider trying them out.  Although I do believe that you don't know until you try.  

I have been looking at Ohm for quite some time and I do believe that the Walsh 5000 could be an excellent attempt to make it work.  I may have to take advantage of the very generous at home trial period that Ohm offers to see if these would work.  At full retail pricing, I'd have to start selling off a lot of equipment that I may not be ready to part with just yet.

I have been speaking with John Huff of Huff Loudspeakers about some of his Omni's that he has leftover from his days in the industry.  He seems to feel confident that his Huff Three would do well in a corner such as mine and is willing to make a deal.  There is much debate about omni's out there and the lovers and haters both make great points.  With my limited knowledge, I think that dipoles would be tough for me to pull off and omni's could be even harder to get right.  Any thoughts on omni's for a very wide separation and corner placement in a big room?

Although the newest Khorn has a fully enclosed bass horn, it allows the Khorn to be out " a bit " from the corner, and you can adjust the toe in to the listening seat. However, they still use the corners to get the optimum balance out of them. Do not be fooled by this. They are still, imo, considered a corner horn. Ohm and Klipsch are like apples and oranges. They are not similar in their presentations at all. I have always had a dedicated listening room, and the WAF was never an issue this way, so I apologize for your situation. You either like horns, or not. I am a horn guy, and Ohms, although very " spacious " sounding, do not do what a Khorn will do ( and vis a versa ). There is no argument with this. It is all about what you want as a listener. And, MLs do not benefit in a corner. Good luck. Always, MrD.

mrdecibel: If you know, how do the Klipsch La Scala perform with corner placement?  Are they designed for corner placement ideally?

@kren0006 The Lascala ( and the no longer available Belle ) can fit in a corner, but in all of my years experience with them, corner placement causes mudiness, boominess, creates overhang in the bass output and timing, and, the dog house ( Klipsch lingo for the bass horn ) loses the coherence between the bass and midrange / treble. I find them very coherent and well balanced. They sound good against the wall behind them ( being 24 inches deep, with some rear wall treatment ), but not near a corner. I know quite a few folks who use them in corners, and I tell each one of them to get Khorns. I enjoy my LSs, but if I currently had workable corners ( I did at 1 time and owned earlier Khorns ), I would have Khorns. As you may know, I admired PWK, and still do ( RIP ).

I should also add, this is my findings with most speakers in corners.😞Sad, but true. 

Volti Audio Rivals. Better than the K horns in just about every way imo. That said, the new K horns do not need to go right in the corners. The design has been slightly modified & efrcticreate their own corners with their new cabinets. 

Thanks mrdecibal. One more if I may: Klipsch Cornwall- okay in corners? I ask because my brother has similar placement restrictions as OP but for different reasons and KHorns won’t be in his budget. But I’d rather know going in than to advise something unlikely to work well

i know the whole point of the name Cornwall is supposedly that they work either in corner or on wall but just wondering if that’s true in practice or merely marketing bluster

As @rooze has commented 

“ I wouldn't put Logans in corners against the wall, nor any other dipole speaker.”

@speed005 … It might help were we to be aware of your budget ?

You might look at Pi Speakers.  A couple of their models are designed to go into corners. 

I first heard the 7 Pi at the Midwest Audio Fest many years ago.  I knew nothing about them and had no idea what was in the room, and from where I had to stand (because of the crowd in the room) I could not see the speakers, but from outside of line-of-sight they sounded absolutely incredible.  My jaw dropped when I was finally able to enter the room far enough to see the speakers.  I had no idea I had been listening to horns.  Designer Wayne Parham is superb, every design I have heard of his has been excellent, but his specialty is (arguably) speakers designed for placement in the corners.

Duke

@tsushima1  yes, budget would be helpful.  I’d like to stay under $5k if at all possible.  
 

@audiokinesis   I have been looking at the 7 Pi for awhile and have considered it as my last alternative.  I have built a few cabinets as well as speakers in my day, so the option of building a pair is real, but with this prior experience I also know how much time that takes to get woodworking to my standards.  Your first hand experience is the first that I have read outside of the Pi website so that is very encouraging.  To be honest, as I have followed Agon for several years now and have read many many comments and opinions of yours in particular, I take that experience and commentary as the gospel truth.  No BS at all.  The same goes for many of the responses that have been shared on this thread.  It is an honor to get opinions and help from those that I hold on high regard.  Thank you.  

I agree with @mrdecibel 

Tight in corners is no good for any heritage speaker except a khorn. Even the cornwalls can benefit from being a ft or so away from walls. My LaScalas are a couple of feet away from the corners (where the subs reside) and they sound just grand.

So my suggestion is for a Cornwall IV if khorns or lascalas are a no go.

I have not heard the new Khorn other than in a corner, so I cannot say from my own listening experience, if they were to be excellent set up in free space, away from all walls and corners. But I speak to many Klipsch and Khorn owners ( I am talking about the new AK6 ), and none are using them far from the corners, based on their listening preference. However, based on my readings and research, the dog house on the new Khorns are ( just imo ), designed like a slot loaded sub, kind of like the older Janis W1 and W3 subwoofers, designed by John Marovskis ( I believe this is the spelling ). I met him at his Bronx warehouse on 2 occasions, once for a pair of W1s, and another for a pair of W3s. Read up on the design. If I am wrong about this, so be it, as I have been wrong once or twice before...lol. To answer @kren0006, my description of what happens ( from my own listening ) when placed in a corner, is true on all Klipsch ( again except Khorn ), and, most speakers. Corners are acoustically problematic, ime....but, if the corners are the only place for speaker location, get the speaker that has all of the other attributes you are looking for, as nothing will be optimum in a corner, but can still be enjoyable. My best, and enjoy ! Always, MrD.

@speed005 did you ever make a move?

@audiokinesis absolutely!

I am a proud owner of 7pi corner horns, and I’ve never heard anything so relaxed and smooth, yet dynamic and punchy ant the same time (in my typical domestic settings)

They put my floor to ceiling line (full range) arrays to shame in the way of “punch and drama”…

The arrays do have their advantages though…just completely different.

@speed005 , A system in that room will always be for background music. There is no way you will get anything close to acceptable performance in a room like that especially with that kind of speaker placement. Having said that you can stick any speaker you want in that location. 

If you want a system for serious listening you will have to work with another room in the house.  

@mijostyn , It's funny to read your comments and advice because you are dead on correct and that is exactly what I found to be true.  Listening in that room turned out to be for background music and replacing the VSA VR3's with a pair of Canton Karat M80dc pulled out of the corners and some precise toe in did the trick.  I think the MTM setup and the small baffle helped to get the dispersion wide enough and far enough to get the soundstage closer to what I was looking for in that room.  I recently added a pair of passive subs to the room to help fill in for low level background listening and this helped a lot.  

I am currently building a new listening room in the basement for my critical listening system.  I have a pair of Acoustic Zen Adagio's on deck for that room.  I am also looking at a Bob Carver VTA20s tube amp to power them, used of course.  I am not finding many customers with reviews of this amp.  I'm not sure if it's because it was a budget friendly tube design or because it wasn't produced for very long or because of the Emotiva connection.  Anyone have much experience with this amp?  I'm looking to get into tubes and thought this may be a good entry level starter, but the lack of users has me concerned.

@speed005 , It is not rocket science. After you have set up enough systems in crippled situations you get the hang of it.

The Adagio are a great speaker. It is not easy to design transmission lines. However, they are not the most efficient speakers. You need more than 20 watts/ch. I would not run them with any less than 60 watts/ch. An amp that is Class A for the first 20-25 watts would be nice. The Pass XA25.8 would be nice. Used JC-1s might be overkill but the first 25 watts are magic. Atma- Sphere M 60s would be wonderful. Many AR amps would fit the bill. I would stay with well established companies in case service is required.