Just retired and want to get back to vinyl listening

Very few people take Eminent Technology LFT-8b speakers as seriously as they do Maggies, for a reason of which I am unaware (I own both, as well as QUAD ESL’s). Harry Weisfeld of VPI, from a recent blog posting: "The ET LFT-8b may have the best midrange of any loudspeaker I have ever heard". A ridiculous bargain at $2499 retail.

Bill,
As always, good post, encouraging even inspirational but with a warning.
As for the best pressings, I think some of us could help here.
Yeah, taking dealers' time with little possibility of buying from them doesn't feel good. However, how else to try and compare many brands? Say, I would like to compare Lamm and Ypsilon or Gryphon and FM Acoustics. Virtually zero chance to do it at one dealer.

I’m going to make a few radical observations that are borne out of the many threads of this type on this forum and others:
First, the equipment suggestions are invariably a reflection of how the person making the recommendations would spend your money, allocate budget, prioritize one component over another and what that person might want out of a system. I wouldn’t dare argue with anyone’s choice. But, what do YOU want? The only way to know is to listen. That means seat time at a dealer or four (don’t know what your locale has to offer); friends or colleagues that can let you hear their systems; travel to other places to hear systems, etc.
Second, the amp and speaker have a symbiotic relationship and are often chosen together. That isn’t to say you can’t buy an all purpose amp or speaker, but the two are interconnected in ways that go beyond the literal; and from that, the type of amp (tube/solid state), power and to some degree, price and budget allocation are intertwined.
Used is good if from a reputable source, particularly someone who is a dealer who will stand behind the product along with the manufacturer-not someone who is blowing the product line out because they lost the franchise or switched to another brand to feature;
A good dealer should be a quiet guide to let you make choices, not someone pitching you. There are some good dealers but no one of them will carry all the brands you might consider. It is possible to put together a very good system from more than one dealer.
Shopping dealers to go out to buy from individual sellers is an ethical sore point- while I’ve had some bad experiences with dealers over the years, a good dealer should be treasured- for help, tech support, trade-ins, and price breaks.
Two final observations; one about gear and one about "vinyl."
Gear: I have two systems. One is ’high end’ vinyl only system; the other is a vintage system (based on old Quad ESLs and matching amps). I get as much joy from one as the other. This isn’t about the money, it’s about putting together a "system" that works together synergistically and draws on the strengths of the gear to present music in a way that you as the owner like.
Records: vinyl is a b-----. I say this as someone as dedicated to the medium as anyone. Unless you are planning on buying new audiophile reissues of classic warhorses, you are going to wind up in a world cluttered with shitty pressings and/or used records, where the grade "very good" means precisely the opposite. Not trying to discourage you- record hunting is fun particularly if your taste isn’t limited to the latest "audiophile" picks, but it’s a whole other world of things to know and learn: preferred pressings of older records; sources to acquire stuff beyond the usual, trusted sellers that won’t charge you top dollar for a valued copy.
The primary point of my missive is that you have to educate yourself, no matter how well meaning others’ advice is. And that means seat time, listening to some different kinds of speakers, amps, etc. I could go on, but I think it is unnecessary. (PS: I can appreciate a friend’s system that is entirely different from my "big" system, and really enjoy it. It is just different, but well chosen, thoughtfully put together to achieve a certain objective for that owner).
After all, you are the one paying for it and listening to it. Choose wisely based on experience you should gain before you spend.
And congrats on retirement.
bill hart

It appears that no-one directly compared Luxman, Accuphase and Pass. Until that's done I don't see how one can choose. This would be a guess that might not turn out to be a lucky one. External phono stage that would almost certainly outperform both Luxman's and Accuphase's phono modules would not be too expensive even new, probably around $2k. Sutherland 20/20 comes to mind first.
Personally, when choosing a brand I try to get the feel of the designer before any other considerations. Pass and Rasmussen of Gryphon sound good to me. Dimitros of Ypsilon too but that's out of the range.

I'm certainly enjoying it. Two things stand out, to me. First, the absolute clarity. Details in familiar pieces that I had never heard previously. And the control. Stunning.
I've looked at that turntable, but it's out of my price range, sadly. As is the CD player. But I still look....
Take care,

I am a big Luxman fan having owned many pieces since the 70's (yes, I am an old fart). I'm currently running an Accuphase E-600 and I may be selling it to go back to the Luxman MQ-300 tube amp.  The L-590AX or AXII are hands down, the best value in terms of Class A integrated amps. Also, with the new North American distributor, there is a $1,000 price drop.  

Whats not to love!!!

If like the integrated, you will be smitten by the Luxman turntable!  

I'm glad you are enjoying my old amp!

BTW, you and mountainsong both took great care of that amp. It looked new when I unboxed it.

Greginnh, I did, that's pretty cool. I'm blown away by the thing. I've heard both fans and detractors, but I'm running a pair of Paradigm Signature S6's, and I couldn't be happier. I can only assume that the people that bash these speakers haven't driven them with anything good enough to see what they can do. A new turntable is probably on the horizon.
L.

I dug this up, steventoney.
http://www.navratilaudio.cz/novinky/Luxman_L590AXII_HFW.pdf

There are actually three 590's currently listed, which is very unusual. Two of them are the L-590A MkII's which are two versions back from the current model, and one is the L 590AX, (which I own), which was superceded by the L 590AXII about 1½ years ago.

builder3, did you buy your Luxman from mountainsong?   If so, that was originally my amp!!

This is a long shot because they are probably too expensive but take a look at Classic Audio speakers. They should do well, I suppose, with Luxman/Accuphase class A amps. I don't know where to audition them, though.

yes -- card or standalone - would be additional purchase with accuphase -- could go either -- there is also the consider of the 2 slots and the DAC card for some inputs -- but I'm mostly focused here on getting back to vinyl listening.. both luxman and accuphase -- have the "look" I'm after for the retro -- like my old yamaha receiver --  Yamaha and most like brands are not the same today as what I had in the 70's - 80's  --

pretty much decided it will be a class a to a/b integrated typical of the luxman accuphase type styles -- but still open to other suggestions

The Accuphase units only need a phono card that is inserted into the back of the amp.   I think the Pass would need a stand alone phono stage.

The Pass integrated is like the accuphase E-600/E-470 in that it seems it would need a phone stage bought separately... all considerations -- all good integrateds

Rogue and Yamaha won't do - the man is aiming at higher performance level.

Are you people saying that this Luxman would overall be better than Pass INT-60, phono aside ? I am not familiar with Luxman.
Another theoretical possibility is JM Focal Utopia. It will require tube amplification and well matched cables or it will sound bright.
Something like this or higher:
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-jm-labs-utopia-alto-be-2017-09-06-speakers

The listed 590 ax Luxman is tempting, but I must be patient and get moved first.................

I hope to listen to that specific set sonus faber speakers and the vandersteen quarto wood ct -- devore gibbon x and the box types devore 0/96 -- maybe even the harbeth box 40.2 -- the vandersteen 5A is outside my budget for this first setup.. Also it brings on another separate discussion on speakers with built bass amps - version passive bass stages in the speakers I have been mostly looking at.   I may stretch speakers to around 12-14Kish, but was hoping for 5-10K as the overall budget was 20ish -- we will see -- I may start in the 15-20 K range for all the sundries and the update as I learn and experiment

starting point is modest memory replicant -- TT - I-amp - speakers with a retro feel and experiment from there

thanks for all the input -- I will get down and serious on buying after I get moved and have a new place..

I reiterate what rstheno had to say. VPI Prime. Soundsmith Zephyr mimc.

Rogue audio cronus magnum ii with the kt120..

That leaves over 10k for speakers. I have a long history with Klipsch but I would go for sonus faber Olympica 3 or vandersteen 5a used or audiophysic Avanti  (new series)

You mentioned vintage look and  having Yamaha in the past.  Have a look at the current Yamaha integrateds.  The A-S2100 and the next up A-S3000 are on sale at MusicDirect.     

steventoney, I thought I’d offer my two cents. I own the Luxman L-590 AX. There is one version newer, the L-590 AXII. The version prior to mine was the L-590 AII, which had a flip-down panel covering the lower controls. I bought my amp here earlier this year. It’s some of the very best money I’ve spent. I want to throw this out, because it seems to be some sort of a secret. While the 590 is called Class A, and the published output is 30w/channel, it actually puts out right at 90w/channel, (presumably switching to A/B). I bought mine without having ever heard one, and it was a leap of faith. I briefly considered the smaller L-550, but decided to go with their top integrated, and am glad I did. There are reviews out there, but you need to search hard. The new listing here on Audiogon is exactly like mine, condition included. I paid $900 less than that, shipped, which seems to be about the going rate for a very nice example.
L.

Thanks again..

I have my old reference from late 70's into Mid 80's of my modest setup of my Genesis then Hersey speakers attached to my retro with meter sliver front Yamaha receiver and Technics TT as a graduate and veterinary student........had an lower end Nakamichi cassette deck to make music for the car/truck from my albums......it is a good old memory --

so much to relearn and listen too now... with more discretionary money 

will have much more time to actually spend listen to the setup

Congrats on getting back to vinyl! I second the thoughts regarding defining the room first, then speakers, then amplification and finally source components. I sold Klipsch back in the '80's, and in my recollection horns need tubes. If you want value for money, have the space for a large speaker and are willing to venture from the mainstream check out Dennis Murphy's Phil 3:

http://philharmonicaudio.com/phil3.html

i heard these in his D.C. Home driven by a little audio note amp and they are astonishingly good, especially at $3,500 in a standard finish. You can get about any veneer or finish you can imagine on cabinets built by Jim Salk.  He offers a 2-week home trial, though you have to pay shipping. 

Congratulation!   I too got back into higher end gear and vinyl a few years ago.  I've had a number of integrated amps (luxman, accuphase, Hegel, pass, Plinius, and now vitus).  I too like the "retro look".  My luxman integrated from the early 80's is the only gear I have from back then.   I say if you like luxman,stick with luxman (although I would say that Hegel and Plinius are the best "band for the buck" gear on the used market, but neither are close to retro).  For the TT, I've had two VPI (a classic and a scout) but I never really liked the feel of a unipivot arm (and my wife hatted them - which also raises a topic no body else has raised, that being if you are attached, appeasing her sensibilities goes a long way for musical bliss).  I have two clearaudio tables and a linn sondek.   Linn has the retro look.  Pro-Ject has a new table with a retro look as well.  Luxman has a table too, but it's not cheap.   For a cartridge, I've had Shelters (7000 and 9000), Air tights (pc 1 and pc 3), micro benz, Lyras (titan and kilos), and sumiko (blackbird).  Ortofon is always a good bet.   One thing I mention that is rarely brought up is cartridges where they stylus extends past the body of the cartridge versus those there the stylus hangs below it .   The former are more exposed to damage.  

Even though i am an advocate of brick and mortar stores, if you do buy mail order, keep in mind that if you buy multiple components, some will discount but you have to call them and talk to them.  I've always had good luck with music direct in Chicago.  

Please make sure u budget for a good record cleaning machine. A must for "getting into vinyl".

 I want to echo what Reubent said about your room. You want to look at your room just like a component. You can put a $20K system in a badly set up room and it will sound awfull. You can take a $5K system and put it in a properly set up room and it will sound like a dream. Do some reading about room set up. Also, u want a high current amp, not to play at high volumes necessarily, but to be able to reproduce your sound, without clipping. An overdriven amp will make your music sound harsh. Also invest in a good cartridge. After all, that's where the music starts. If u don't have a good front end, it won't much matter what components u use after that. You can buy good used equipment on this sight, as well as others, after u find what u want. Look for someone that has a high satisfaction score. Good luck. 

A "like new" Luxman L-590AX integrated was just posted for sale on this web site.  It's a phenomenal amp!

I have shy’ed away from electrostatic panels so far - but will give a listen..

as noted - thanks for all the advice... I expect I will need to travel to some shops in western WA after I get moved and outfit the place I rent with a new bed etc.. and have my moved stuff delivered -- I do have a small project to have a Truck Vault setup put in my Yukon which would be a trip over to Sedro-Woolly area 

obviously in retirement - I’ll have the time

lots to think about and I will try to "hear" what I can

"vocals as clean - natural as possible and have clear - not muddled reproduction and sound stage for the hearing the various instrument on good source -- I a low - modest volume listen of variety of material that include jazz - instrumental - singer - songwriter - classic songs by male and female vocalists that have instrumental voices"  Have you considered Maggies?

I just setup the Marten Bird 2 in my demo room. Truly an amazing speaker. Stage III/Jorma design for interconnects. EAR for electronics,Kuzma for turntables etc are some good choices. Of course Transfiguration/Ikeda for cartridges. Good luck with your retirement and safe travels.

Mat
jjaudiosolutions.com

A couple of general comments.  Take your time.  If you are a bit like me you will enjoy window shopping.  I mostly have to buy 'blind' as I live in rural New Zealand.  My town only has two hi-fi dealers.  Both excellent and knowledgeable but of necessity the rage is limited.  Forums and magazines are helpful.  I would counsel to give more weight to magazines that are able to do their own testing - Stereophile, Hi-Fi News (UK) etc.  I am a long time reader of these sorts of mags and you kind of get to know the reviewers, and their fetishes. Every now and then there will be a review of a product you have or have heard and that gives you a touchstone.   Maybe I am just lucky but have generally been satisfied with my blind purchases.  

I second the recommendations of Rogue Audio for amplification, and Technics for a TT.  

I'm also in the Pacific Northwest.  Definitely check out Gig Harbor Audio in where else Gig Harbor WA.  They are very much into vinyl and have a great website.   Of course once you come over to that part of Western WA you may not want to go back to Eastern WA.  Also Tacoma has a Vandersteen dealer. 

I just did that exact same thing....was always into home theater. Decided to go back to vinyl...took me a while to get to where I feel finished. I too run a set of Klipsch horned speakers (Chorus II’s) went with used Mac solid state.
The turntable took a couple of tries with both table and cartridge.
Good luck with your quest....I hope you have as much fun as I did.
Although I am not retired yet....I will be in January

I would also check out Vandersteen speakers if can find a dealer out there.  Great sound and value.  Good luck! 

again -- all thanks for the info.. lots to think about...  Just a another specific directional discussion - while I'm heavily leaning to speakers like Cornwalls ( I am concerned if I can fit these into the places I may rent in spokane based on internet searches of rentals with garages for my new yukon  - even the Devore 0/93 - o/96 styles are retro appealing - even Volti Rival mentioned - keeping more retro -- I will be listening to the tall thin types like ML 60XT - Definitive Tech Mythos and other in a wide price range like this to include devore - KEF towers - just to understand what is out there..  I do need the speaker to do vocals as clean - natural as possible and have clear - not muddled reproduction and sound stage for the hearing the various instrument on good source -- I a low - modest volume listen of variety of material that include jazz - instrumental - singer - songwriter - classic songs by male and female vocalists that have instrumental voices -- some classic soft rock -- but I rarely listen to hard rock or metal - so what I'm after is not about hard pounding loud rock

Interestingly I was in exactly the same position as you with respect to vinyl listening (Retired, sold my last TT and LPs 33 years ago, $20k budget and now wanted to get back into analog). See my previous post on this subject:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/second-system-that-sounds-and-looks-spectacular-i-am-there

Like the post says, "I am there". I could not be happier with my TT setup, looks and sounds beautiful. I have absolutely no plans to upgrade this system.

Hey if you like retro, look at what noromance has suggested.
Line Magnetic Audio have based much of the design and engineering of the audio line on old Western Electric designs. I have the LM Audio 216ia, little push/pull tube amp. Point to point wiring and LM Audio's bigger amps are FANTASTIC. Pair them with a VPI or the Shinola Runwell turntable and you have a great retro system. Of course, McIntosh always has retro looking stuff and is very good.

Other integrateds you might want to consider.
transistor:
Gryphon Diablo 120 ( $13200 with great phono ).
Pass INT-60 ( $9k, not sure about phono ).
tube:
VAC 160 Sigma SE ( $13k ? ).
Octave - SE edition models. ( $5k - $13k ? ).

Gryphon will be the most dynamic and versatile.

it is far less pickings than in the 70-80's but back then in school and other professional training - I had far less decretionary money than now

I only have 2-3 places that I can get too prior to the moving van and drive away.. one has devore speakers as mention in an earlier entry.  their is a best buy magnolia - but it not really in the class of things being mentioned here.  I also would like to hear martin logan 60xts and some others in that style -- but I will have to decide and buy once I get a place in spokane

Do as much listening as you can before moving.  I live in the Nortwest and it's almost an audio dealer wasteland.  Portland is better than Seattle for dealers.  Some smaller dealers in Seattle and little variety.

My first move with cables and power cords would be in the direction of Audio Art. I am a big Purist Audio cables fan but out of curiosity recently tried their $100 Classic RCA cable. Very good and great for the price. I would get their SE with Xhadow or XLR connectors cables, speaker cables and power cords. Break-in time is at least 150 hours but they can do it for you for additional fees. They offer 30 days return so no risk. Accuphase makes their own cables, I think, at least interconnects. I would stay with one brand cables at this already high performance level. If you discover that Audio Art is not enough or just wrong choice, consider Purist Audio and Stage III cables. Some say that Furutech is excellent too, maybe, I don't know.

BTW on the ripped music - streamer aspect -- I have my FLAC files on a QNAP NAS that the SONOS systems accessing  --  I have another larger server system for ripped DVDs and Blurays for the HT with 2 viewing setup -- a primary Denon and NHT with HTPC on large Panasonic plasma - I hope survives the move as it a great TV 65in ZT60 -- not made anymore for living room and a Projector - Yamaha sound bar for the bedroom, this stuff is what I have played with and updated over the last 15-20 years, all of that and the many pieces and parts and stands probably has 30-35K of original and upgrade cost over 2 decades ---  but the new project is all about stereo audio listening and getting back to vinyl

thanks all for lots of good suggestions advice.. moving van is coming in 4 weeks -- still packing -- taking all my HT and computer stuff after my 4 days "vacation" to Shenandoah NP next week.

yes -- I plan to buy after I move and get into a new place... as it will effect final choices..

Luxman is high on the list likely 550, but could stretch to 590 as hedge to driver a wider range of speakers over time and will look harder at the Accuphase E-470 or stretch to E-600, but as noted the phone stage on these are separate purchases either as their cards or external -- Luxman maybe a better starting point for me and put some of the saved money in other parts of the setup, but will review other I-amps as suggested

There is one decent here in town I may be able to go audition the Devore speakers -- not sure what models they have --  Klipsch Cornwalls are still on the list but I will try to audition others and may well need a trip to Seattle or Portland after I get into a place in Spokane

research on TT has me looking at VPI Scout - stretch to Prime - Musichall 9.3 or Po-Ject -- so reading much on these and will try to view in person

as noted -- I have 500+ cds ripped to FLAC on a server and use the SONOS for intermittent very casual - as noted background music -- I I have a ZP80 into my HT setup + 4 other room SONOS players -- I do use it less today than when I first got SONOS 10+ years ago or so -- I could relocate ZP80 to the new setup and add in a better DAC -- suggestions?

lastly just for education - conversation -- what are suggested interconnects and cable -- that does seems to get lots comments -- consider this connections - cabling for VPI or MusicHall TT  - Luxman - Cornwalls as an example -- even if choices are not near final..

thanks for all the suggestions - comments -- very helpful in getting me to spend some money to enjoy my retirement 

You mentioned the Luxman integrated amps I'm a big fan my self and I would definitely go for a class A Lux they are wonderful but your looking at 20-30wch in the new o es and up to 50class A in an older one but they are harder to find. That said 30wch class a is pretty good and the Liam's have good drive. But you will need a more efficient speaker. Toile many have said there are a huge amount and I'd seriously look at used as speakers have the largest markup and biggest depreciation.  I think your table thoughts are a good direction and look used there as well. VIP have a good rep lots out there and they make a lot of people happy. I also stream tidal so as other said that's an easy addition later 

steventoney
Congrats on retirement. We have some similarities. I just retired a month ago and I used to live in Spokane for 22 years. IMO, buy a system before moving to Spokane unless you buy online or you want to make a trip to Portland or Seattle to look for gear. Spokane doesn't have any decent stereo shops compared to the bigger cities!
If you are looking at a VPI, the Prime with the 3D arm is a very good starting point. I have the VPI 10" 3d arm in my TT setup. If you are looking at cartridges, check out Soundsmith, they have a very good synergy with VPI gear.
If your mind is made up on the Klipsh, check out the Rogue Cronus Magnum II tube integrated amp with the KT120 tubes. Highly rated, good power, american made, great support, and it has a built in mm phono preamp. I used to have 1 and it drove much more inefficient speakers than the Klipsh. If you want in the future to upgrade the phono preamp. you can but you might not need to. If you want solid state, check out Hegel. You can probably get the H100 or H200 integrated amp but you will need to get an external phono preamp. 
I would use the SONOS system for background music only. I would also skip buying a CD player and go with a music server/DAC with your ripped music either on a server or on a NAS. I used to own the Auralic Aries which I liked over other streamers for a lot more $$$, and I had a very nice external DAC which had an expensive SB cable to connect them together. The aries has a great interface playing ripped cd's or streaming Tidal. I upgraded the aries and external dac to the PS audio directstream with the Bridge II and couldn't be happier. At the same time, I switched to using Roon which is a fantastic interface to playing music. The PS Audio DS with bridge II supports MQA as well as using the network interface instead of a USB cable. Each year, PS Audio comes out with an upgrade to its firmware which improves SQ on a system that is very good to begin with. The PS Audio DS Jr is very good too for 1/2 the cost.
If you don't want to get an external DAC/streamer, Hegel makes the H160 or ROST integrateds that include the digital pieces but not the phono preamp. But if your priority is vinyl, then you can get a nicer external phono preamp. My preference would be the Rogue and the DS/bridge combo.
Good luck, 

Well, Inna, why not let the gentleman decide for himself? Throwing away $200 worth of cheap cables is 1% of what he expects to spend; it's rounding error; and when it comes time to upgrade cables, he will know what he wants, what will work with his system. And I'll bet he doesn't have to throw any cables away.

Not to start it again but what terry9 said about cables was simply not true. You do need to spend a lot more especially if buying new and they can be the most cost effective upgrades. This includes power cords. I just didn't want the man to be misinformed or I would not have said it. Cables are components, signal transmission is very important.

I second the congratulations on your retirement. Life is just beginning!

Don’t buy speakers until you’ve heard modern Magnepans and Quad ESL’s. You may not like them, but if you do, there is simply no comparison for anything like the money.

Spokane isn’t that far from Victoria, Canada, which is home to a really fine audio store, Sound Hounds. They’ve been around since the early seventies, really know, and really care. I’ve spent quite a lot there.

For turntable, consider buying factory direct. If you don’t need suspension, consider a Trans-Fi Salvation turntable and air bearing arm. About $5000 new; although I haven’t heard the table, I do have two of the tonearms, and they punch far, far above their weight.

I suggest that you don't spend more than a few hundred on cables. Let your ears adjust to the sound and then see if you can improve on the cheap cables you already have. You may find, as I have, that cables are the least cost effective way to spend money.

Good luck!

The Accuphase is only slightly better than the Luxman and it does not come with a phono stage. I have owned both brands and amp currently running an Accuphase E-600, which is an additional $2,000.  If I had to do it over again, I would have kept my Luxman L-590AX at half the price of the Accuphase. Luxman offers excellent value for what you get. The L-550AX is a great place to start. Speakers are going to very much a personal preference and room-specific. DeVore speakers in addition to the Heresy and Cornwalls mentioned wil be a good match. Also any of the Totem Element series will sing very well with the Luxman.

Don’t skimp on cables and interconnects and maybe save about 10% of your buget for room treatment and tweaks.

Take your time, work with a dealer that will let you audition the gear at your hone and enjoy the process!

@steventoney

Since you are moving fairly soon, might not it be better if you start your search in earnest where you are moving? I’m not sure how many hi-end dealers there are in Spokane, but Seattle is just over four hours away and I’m sure there must be plenty of them there. And you'll have local dealer support if you need it. Maybe in this case it’s not about the swift road, but more about the journey and the fun you can have along the way. 

Hope you have a great retirement. I’ve got about 6.5 more years myself and plan to visit lots of dealers to build one more system. I’ve already started my search and dealer visits!