Nevermind had pop hooks and a unique intoxicating quality that had a powerful effect on a lot of listeners. The record didn't have a huge budget and got big based mostly on consumer demand. Nirvana was larger than life before Cobain's death. Musical "talent" isn't some easily quantifiable attribute that's accurately measured w/ one yardstick or one persons opinion. Attempting to rank the best moments of of the Pixies, The Melvins, Soundgarden, Mudhoney, Nirvana and Alice in Chains is pretty much a clueless turd in the punchbowl exercise. |
Jeremy72,
Nirvana was influential when regarding the media(radio-tv-press). Musicians were much less influenced by Nirvana. More talented bandes like Pearl Jam-Soundgarden-The Pixies-Mudhoney-COC and Alice in Chains were much more influential with nu-metal and mainstream rock from the late 90's to even current bands. Kurt Cobain's death made it convenient for the media to make Nirvana larger then life! |
Nirvana album Nevermind - hugely influential |
For me, Beatles music has no meaning other than to sing along in the car because the radio played them so often. Though I always thought their covers were interesting. I guess it was in 1968? or 1969? that the story that Paul was dead circulated and we combed the covers for hints about his death. The radio played alot of Beatles, but for the Battle of the Bands or the Friday or the Saturday night dances at the local fire halls or high schools, it was garage band fever. Louie,Louie, Gloria, I Can Give You Everything, Just Like Me, Satisfaction, Evil hearted You, I'm a Man, House of the Rising Sun. Lead singer had a tambourine, every band virtually had a Hammond B3 or Conn organ. And somebody played a mean harmonica on I'm a Man. Danced and partied all night long. The only time we heard Beatles music was usually a slow number for the girls. Of course we did not mind that much, we got to grope a little and get a little giggle out of the girls. ( Or if someone got a little too frisky a slap in the face. Are you reading this Charlie? You got us kicked out of sooooo many dances!!)
So what does this mean? The Great Divide. Music as Art or Music as Self-Identification. If I wanted Music as Self-Identification I always came down on the side of the Rolling Stones. Let's party all day and all night. If I wanted Music as Art I always sided with my Dad's music of Coltrane and Davis. But later I found the passion of Schubert as my artistic muse. So the Beatles where on neither side of the Divide. Not as self identification and not nearly as a fulfilling aesthetic experience as Music as Art than even a minor composer like Spohr.
I still collect 45s from the 60s of obscure garage bands with fervor and listen to Schubert when I want music as art as an aesthetic experience. |
I agree that there were many other artist that released long versions of there hit songs.
I guess I used the Iron Butterfly tune because it took up one entire side of the LP. And that drum solo played with headphones on along with some extra smokin spirts made that song one that was quite unique.
It also seemed that after that record, alot of the bands were adding drum solos to there live concerts.
Oh, to be young again. |
Sorry Ozzy, I originally missed your real point. I responded because quite recently, actually the first time in years, maybe 30 or more, I heard this piece, owned the album at one time, long since gone and forgotten.
As far as long play it seems to me the Doors 6 minute version of "Light My Fire", the FM version that you mention Rcprince, is the earliest tune beyond the 2-3 minute standard of the era that was actually mixed in with the standard version on AM. Most of the others you mention were limited to WMMR, Philadelphia, the FM rock station at that time. |
Ozzy--My memory is fading, but I think the record that started the longer versions of songs was probably Bob Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone". When it first was played on AM radio they only would play the first two verses (fitting barely into the usual 3 minute maximum), even though the single went for the full four verses/6 minutes. I remember one Saturday afternoon listening to Dan Ingram on WABC in NY (who was also an FM jock, with a jazz show), and in the last hour he was on he played the entire record. Shortly after that I started to hear the whole record played, though I think it may have been because about then I started listening to FM.
There were other long songs around that era--Cream's "Toad", the Doors' "Light My Fire" (FM version), "The End", "Soft Parade", etc., Serpent Power's "Endless Tunnel" (any of you actually remember that one?), and a lot more--as well as Iron Butterfly, so I guess I don't really think of them as starting the genre. |
"How about In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by the Iron Butterfly"
Yeah, I was a fan at the time, what was I thinking, I wasn't, it was that plodding, pulsating beat. Listening now the 17 minute repetiveness is a simple reminder of how often mediocrity rises above true creativity. Wonder what some of the pre-eminent drummers of that era thought about the long version? Catchy but hardly altering or influential except to the teen boys that bought it at the time, I have since changed my mind?:) |
How about In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida by the Iron Butterfly?
With the long 17 + Min jam. Sorta changed the 2-3 minute standard at at he time. |
"Parlaphone released the Beatles 'Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band'"
A day that shall live in Infamy! |
-Hendrix Are You Experienced = Global change in electric guitar playing, (not just in rock).
-1st Velvet Underground laid down a foundation that hundreds built on, (Bowie, Roxy Music, Sonic Youth...).
-1st Black Sabbath, grudgingly must admit had a big hand in establishing metal.
-1st Van Halen, busted open another smaller door.
-Captain Beefheart, Trout Mask Replica, helped shape a wide range of punkers, outside rockers and jazzers who were looking to push the edge.
-Sex Pistols Nevermind the Bollocks, 1st Cars and Nirvana Nevermind showed that there was still some flavor left in what appeared to be stale chewing gum. |
Jimi Hendrix "Are you Experienced I remember buying it the first week it was out. Used it to terrorize my parents along with The Velvet Underground. |
Jimi Hendrix "Are you Experienced" |
Well if you wanna play that game,Rock Around the Clock by Bill Haley and the Comets started the RocknRoll revues that started carrying the sound through out the USA. RocknRoll in the south started breaking down racial barriers in the south.
But to get back to the original posters question
Srgt. Pepper was using new ways to record @ the time,heavily influenced by drug use which was taking off in the summer of love.
Bitches Brew fused Jazz and electric instruments in a raw nervy way making most jazz musicians sit up and take notice. |
One could also argue that Little Richard's "Tutti Frutti" released in 1955 impacted rock and roll much more.
Little Richard began recording in 1951, 4 years earlier than Berry.
He is widely recognized as the performer who transitioned rhythm and blues to rock and roll. |
Since someone eventually got around to Pet Sounds, I'll add a single (rather than an LP):
Chuck Berry's 1955 release, "Maybellene", at which time - it could be argued - Rock n Roll is born.
Marty |
The Doors(st)album has influenced alternative music from the late 70's thru the 80's. It even influenced grunge 20+ years after it's release. |
Miles Davis did it twice with "Kind of Blue" introducing modal jazz, then "In a silent Way" introducing electric Jazz.
Miles basically invented jazz fusion, which open the door for all those groups that came after like Johnny Mac, Mahavishu, Return to Forever, Weather Report, Brand X... JLP.
So Miles really heavily influenced Rock and Jazz.. from Hendrix to Maynard F. |
Muddy Waters - Electric Mud.
Thomas Edison - Mary had a little lamb. heheehe |
It's Lola's 41st birthday, and the entire "...versus Powerman and the Moneygoround" lp still stands up very well for its era and all time as a rock album. |
Hi Dave,
The op of this thread is genre altering. Southern rock is a part of the rock genre. I do not see, as wonderful and enduring as the Allmans albums are, as trail blazers in the same way that the Beatle's Pepper album is.This is not about how popular or well loved a bands work became. It's more akin to releasing something at the right time with all the stars aligning.
IMO only
Regards, |
Hi Montejay,
While the Allmans are my favorites, I truly believe they were innovators; influenced by and the melding of blues, jazz, R&B and early rock n' roll they created a whole new thing.
They were the impetus for the whole wave of Southern Rock bands that followed. (I really don't think of them as Southern Rock). While there were many accomplished bands of this type, none were as accomplished and unique as the Allmans.
Of course all in my humble opinion.
Best,
Dave |
Hi Dave,
I listen to those three albums regularly
having two on sacd and one on an excellent
MOFI. There where many blues based jam bands that allmans were influenced by.
As much as I enjoy them this is about albums that changed the genre,
not our favorites |
Regarding the OPs question;
How about the original Allman Brothers Band? The Allman Brothers Band, Idlewild South, At Filmore East, Eat a Peach.
Certainly genre defining if not genre creating works.
Best,
Dave |
Hi Bongofury
I don't doubt your experience in live concerts or the music industry
As a kid growing up in Montreal in the '70s however, I saw Pink Floyd
ELP and many other rock bands define stadium rock
U2 came after
IMO
Regards, |
It's interesting that no one mentioned the period when Dylan and The Band were noodling around in the basement. Eric Clapton disbanded Cream after hearing what The Band produced during that time i.e. Music From Big Pink. Lots of musicians claimed that Music From Big Pink changed their lives and the way they thought about music.
The Beatles moved sharply away from the sound of SP as Dylan continued to influence John Lennon and George Harrison. I think he had little influence on McCartney because he walked out of the room when Sir Paul tried to play it for him. I do believe there was a lot of friendly competition between The Beatles and Dylan, but Paul has really done very little noteworthy music since losing his foil in Lennon.
The Beatles influenced Dylan to go electric, Dylan influenced the Beatles to write real songs as opposed to the drivel they did on their early LPs. |
Montejay
I have been in the concert biz for ages and we kind of hold up U2's Zoo Tour as the "Srgt. Pepper" of live tours for originality and scaling. |
MacDad
Sorry to hear you are pulling up stakes!!!!! You got to stock up on those pecan pies from Goode!
I also just had about the best steak ever in Houston last week at Churrascos. As for the Nirvana and Stevie, I totally agree. |
Owned a lot of 45's when I was a kid (I'm 57), and of course handled and heard my parents LP's but MY 1st 3 LP purchases were The Supremes Greatest Hits, Vanilla Fudge, & Sgt. Pepper's. It's hard to explain growing up with the Beatles to people that didn't. And I understand there are some folks here that aren't fans but the Beatles music was a world-wide phenomena for a reason.
Perhaps you've heard (I know I Have)the expression when speaking of a different artists particular recording; "...this was their Sgt. Pepper's...". I think that pretty much says it all! |
Bongo knows my take on the place of rap, hip-hop, or whatever they are currently calling lyric poetry set to someone else's music, but I whole-heartedly agree with Innervisions and What's Going On. Both are genre defining. Innervisions is just mind-blowing from an originality and artistic standpoint. It's one of those "Where The F___ did that come from" moments. The only thing that comes close to those, and it's for me, prob not for everyone, was Nirvana. I remember the first time I heard "Smell's Like Teen Spirit" in the car. I was driving down Shepard Dr in Houston, and I was about at W Alabama midway through the song. I pulled into Cactus Records and bought the CD. Cactus is still around, thank God, even though I'm moving to Oklahoma. Going to miss Houston. |
Bob Dylan's "Highway 61 Revisited". The first fully electric album. Bruce Springsteen's "Born to Run". A break out record for the boss, that changed what rock and roll is, could be and is compared to for ever. |
I think there would. Anyway, I prefer Wish You Were Here. |
But there probably wouldn't have been a DSOTM if not for Sgt. Peppers. |
Sure DSOTM set all kinds of Billboard Top 200 longevity records and sounds great, but I wouldn't say it altered a genre in any way. It's a slick Sgt. Pepper's style theme album and PF's total sellout effort. But no denying its success. Meddle marks their last art rock album. PF early adopters know the difference between grits and gravy. So here's a vote for Pink Floyd's Saucerful of Secrets, welcome to extended cut space rock. |
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Well, Machine Head was probably not as influential as DSOTM, I agree. |
The Byrds "Mr. Tambourine Man" set the stage for folk rock and "Fifth Dimension" combined folk rock and psychedelia sounds. |
Nobody say a word about Little Feat.
You all seem too traditional. Following your predictable
squared way of thinking why not to mention Frank Sinatra. |
Hi Bongofury.
Like your take on genre bending albums. I don't agree with U2 defining stadium rock. Beatles,as early as '65, Rolling Stones, ELO, Kiss, Floyd etc., had been doing there thing for years.
Regards, |
Hi Onhwy61.
I tend to agree with all of your choices.
Genre changing. They do not have to be our favorite.
I would throw in Thriller as well.
Regards, |
I see where Bitches Brew and DSOTM fit in.
As much as I like the album,I am not as sure about Machine Head. What made this album's impact greater then what bands like Zepplin were doing at the time?
Regards, |
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
Pink Floyd - DSOTM
Deep Purple - Machine Head
I don't like Beatles, never did. Or Stones and Queen for that matter. |
Jay Z's The Black Album and Public Enemy's "It Takes a Nation" seemed like significant milestones in hip hop. Raw Power by Iggy was probably one of the more influential punk albums, along with the Ramone's debut. I think Stevie Wonder's Innervision and Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On" brought soul and R & B in new directions. The Who Live at Leeds defined early metal. Bob Dylan's Blonde on Blonde defined the singer songwriter. U2's Joshua Tree defined stadium rock. The Pixies Surfer Rosa was epic, helping Radiohead's the Bends define indie rock, as well as Nirvana's Nevermind. |
Deep Purple "Machine Head" and BlaCK Sabbath "paranoid" were highly influential forebearers for Metal. |
"The Chronic" by Dr. Dre
"Bitches Brew" by Miles Davis
"Sweetheart Of the Rodeo" by The Byrds
all changed their genres. |
Also Miles Davis "kind of Blue" |
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I'll throw Joy Division's Closer on the table. It had a large influence on the rock bands that came after them. Nothing like the Beatles will exist again. They were a cultural event. |
These questions beg multiple answers that only go to prove that life can't be reduced so facilely ... I do remember a
DJ playing "Palisades Park" about 10 times in a row one night many, many years ago ... and subsequently getting fired for same. I certainly remember "Blue Suede Shoes" and that Elvis look ... I still listen to Coltrane's "Interstellar" and "Ascension," something I can't say about the majority of my music ... I appreciate the Stones much more today than was true years ago, and I still think the Doors put out some of the best rock/blues ever produced |
