Is there usually a dramatic difference between $5k and $10k cartridges ?

atmasphere, I was talking about vinyl records quality-control / sound-check, not cutting press-form process equipment.

"some recording studios use $5 per mile cables to make recordings” - not really, helped Sony Studios Toronto to find some interconnect issues, they have the best professional grade cables / connectors / mixers / amps / speakers / audio-processing EQ you can imagine! remember, there are only few actual cable and connectors manufacturers (OEMs), unless DIY, users typically employ cable-shop products..

Yeah, some do it right. Later Pink Floyd used Van den Hul cables. They needed two miles of them, as Gilmour said, and they got it.

"some do it right” - who does not? list would be welcome! :-) 

Not to sound like a smart ass, but has anyone actually answered the OP question with experience or just speculation? 98% of the answers are BS. Some good BS but am I wrong 🤔 

I think, some did answer with experience. Besides, the interpretation of "dramatic difference" can vary. But there is some BS, no doubt.

Inna correct, 1 or 2 but the rest BS 😜.  I don't have the funds for cartridges of that level however,  when I went from a Dynavector 20x2L to a Hana Umami Blue it was a very noticeable difference.  I can understand at that price point but does the laws of diminishing returns kick in at 5K? 

I was talking about vinyl records quality-control / sound-check, not cutting press-form process equipment.

@westcoastaudiophile So was I.

In the pressing plant they don't play LPs back. Instead, they send something called a 'test pressing' back to the producer; he has to sign off on it before the plant does the pressing run. He will be listening for weird ticks, distortion caused by over-cut, that sort of thing. Quite often the mastering engineer might take on this function although it depends on the production.

If the mastering engineer did their job properly as I outlined earlier, then the only variable will be if the plant introduced tick somewhere. Usually they don't. An addition test press usually goes to the artist who listens on whatever they have. Right there might be your concern but again the main thing is to make sure the LP is playable. 

@atmasphere they also play test pressings in the record plant during the manufacturing cycle. I’ve been on tours of the AS/AP/QRP facility in Salina. They have a small room next the one where all the presses are located. I’ve observed a plant engineer take a record off the press and go into that room to play it. I was told they do that periodically for quality assurance. They might not sit there with a stopwatch playing the whole thing (I don’t know), but they at least do spot checks.

I can’t speak to other plants but that’s what they do at QRP. I’ll bet it’s the same at RTI, Optimal, Pallas, etc.

@inna some fb to OP: discussing sound quality, using only price of cartridge, is pointless.. there are many $400 cart (80s price) outperforming $2k+ current offers.

the biggest task of building perfect analog system is to match cart/tonearm/phono-pre/pre/amp/speakers/room to give you what you want!

interpretation of "dramatic difference" can vary

Likely some “emotional” connection to the “perceived” sound change which both can vary per each individual 

Yes but you have to be careful. Many cartridge manufacturers have a bit of "house sound" so do your research. 

The comment about very cheap cables in recording studios is doubtful, but even if true is meaningless. It is about getting the most from the software. Same with statements about AC to your outlets.

@dwette +1 Thanks!

kennyc, yes.

The big question is can you enjoy your $10K cartridge more than I enjoy my $2K cartridge? I ask because I have never enjoyed a system more than my $100 Sears Silvertone suitcase stereo when I was in college. It must have had a steel stylus. Smoke a joint and listen to Stravinsky's Firebird with my girlfriend next to me in bed. I will never have that musical enjoyment again, but I do still get deeply into music sometimes. And when I'm in that musical mood, $!K cartridge, $2K, $50K, it wouldn't matter. Just give my porous brain the music.

Yes, but you need a considerable investment in playback equipment to realize the ∆.

I auditioned a Koetsu Jade platinum on a Technics SL1000R using my <$4500 Odyssey electronics and Harbeth P3s. It sounded pretty damn good (noticeably better than my Hana SL/Technics SL1200 GR). When the dealer switched to a BAT Rex II phono pre it sounded strikingly better! (Note: I couldn't afford any of that; the dealer was an old college buddy who was just happy to visit).

I think the 10% rule applies here (cartridge should cost no more than 10% of your system cost). You can spend more, and yes, it will sound better, but you will not be realizing its full potential.

Exactly. Unlike cables, that in my view should be one step ahead of the active components or you won't hear what your system is capable of.

Exactly. Unlike cables, that in my view should be one step ahead of the active components or you won't hear what your system is capable of.

Surely whichever component (including cables) is the least transparent is the rate-limiting factor? And since improving on any bottleneck component makes everything downstream from it sound better, removing bottlenecks closest to the source have the greatest potential gains? That's what baffles me about "rules" like the "10% rule" quoted above.

@audio-b-dog 

Great news then that great pot is cheap... hmmm, the girlfriend could be problematic. 

I remember the Sears Silverton Suitcase Record player... circa late 1960's?

@dogberry Of course you are right. My 10% statement was just meant as a general guideline for someone new to the hobby.

For a person trying to thoughtfully put a system together, getting a decent cartridge that is a good match with your system (or the one you want to buy) can be tricky. Typically that knowledge comes later in the journey. My best advice for a serious
beginner is to work with a trusted dealer.

Note: 10% would be near the top end. There a plenty of great sounding carts that cost significantly less than that. Two of my favorites are my Nagaoka MP 110 and  Grado Gold3. Both of those carts are a hoot and will sound great in any system!

Greetings,

Sorry for be late to this posting, I want to make sure I had proper information on this subject.

I can’t tell you the difference between a $5k and a $10k cartridge, but I can tell you the differences between a $5k and a $16k cartridge. (Retail price)

It’s like the difference between driving a Lexus and a Bugatti. A Lexus will get you from point A to B in comfort, it’s fairly dependable, and looks good. A Bugatti is exhilarating.

Joe Nies

"driving a Lexus and a Bugatti”..so, assuming our roads/hwys driving circumstances, are you saying Lexus is better? LOL

@westcoastaudiophile Your comment just cracks me up. Thanks for making me laugh.

Joe 

I think what he meant is that with the Bugatti after you get from point A to point B you need $20K for a new set of tires.

Late to this party, but when I acquired my Lyra Etna ($10K), it sounded amazing compared to everything I had before it.   Not saying that there’s causality (high price —> superb sound), but in my case it was exactly that.   

Bugatti is real bad for the ecology. But if you must engage in this BS it's not any Italian, it's Koenigsegg. You know how to drive, anyway ? It's quite different from comparing cartridges.

Exotic $$$ cars & $$$ cartridges=terrible comparison.

Is a Bugatti Veyron/Lamgborghi Veneno/La Ferrari ,REALLY "better" than a ...Lexus LFA?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5gmkykQOEIE

In my post, I didn’t mention Lexus worked with Yamaha’s audio division to perfect the LFA’s 9000 RPM scream.

I have experienced a couple of random  LFA sightings and it sounds like a  Formula 1 engine with the intensity knob turned down.

https://blog.son-video.com/en/2024/11/lexus-lfa-x-yamaha-the-roar-of-an-angel/#:~:text=The%20Lexus%20LFA%20supercar%20is,designed%20in%20collaboration%20with%20Yamaha.

I have purchased about fifteen phono cartridges over the last dozen years, all new, in all price ranges. Among them are Benz (I once hoarded Glider SL's when they appeared scarce), Ortofon, Soundsmith, Van den Hul, and Lyra. My profile shows my two tables-both with Reed 3P's. Phono stage is a Manley Steelhead. 

My humble two cents is that like most of audio, beyond the sweet spot the incremental improvement is very subtle. To get to the sweet spot though you must have optimum set-up. I have already hinted at this, but to my ears in my system and thus highly individual, I love the Benz Glider SL as being a champion at the pricepoint and YET, all four of my Gliders are in long-term reserve and my Ven den Hul Crimson Strad XGW and Lyra Etna are my current daily drivers. 

In very general terms, as you go up the scale in a given producer's line-up you get a little more micro detail/resolution and a little more micro-dynamics. Soundstage width and imaging tend go up as well. 

All that said, you can easily fall into the pit of getting too hi-fi and not any happier. For example, on some recordings the Lyra Etna on my 10.5 Reed 3P can border on analytical and ever-so-slightly cold. I can then take that very same LP and place it on my other deck with a 12" Reed 3P and the Van den Hul and the "porridge is just right" with the tone and warmth restored that was lacking with the Lyra. The Lyra Etna is always faster in every respect-transients, dynamics, overall presentation.

Besides my beloved Benz Gliders which simply check the boxes in every category at a very reasonable price, my other go-to sweet spot for the money is the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze. I am of the highly individual subjective opinion that both the Benz Glider SL and Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, properly set-up, provide 95% of what is attainable at 20% (or less) of the top-tier pricing. 

No one on this Board is more knowledgeable and reliable on this subject (again, IMHO) than Mulveling. Listen to his advice and not mine. But one thing that I do think I know is that as you go up the hierarchy you are more likely to be losing out on all that is achievable without expert set-up. I can set up and get most of what is possible with the Benz Glider or Cadenza Bronze on my own using just the SmartTractor alignment tool and a Fozgometer, but for the Ven den Hul and Lyra, I received good return on the investment by having Brian Walsh do my set-up. 

Doesn't it bother you people that cartridges sound so different ?

5k. rather put this into a good phonopreamp.

@inna 

Doesn’t it bother you people that cartridges sound so different ?

Doesn’t it bother you people that speakers sound so different?
Doesn’t it bother you people that amps sound so different?
Doesn’t it bother you people that preamps sound so different?
Doesn’t it bother you people that phonostages sound so different?
Doesn’t it bother you people that tonearms sound so different?
Doesn’t it bother you people that turntables sound so different?
Doesn’t it bother you people that other sources sound so different?

We need hifi for people that sounds the same for everyone, everywhere, all the time!!!

They sound too different, my man, to sound right. That's the point.