Is it possible for a high end manufacturer to overprice their goods?

@kokakolia 

Surprisingly Sonus Faber pricing favors the mid-range, the more you pay the exponentially more value you get.

There are two strategies: make the profit on the lower end vs the top end. Of course, with the sound, everyone's priorities are different, for me the best (perceived) value is the no overhead boutique brands 

One of the common themes of this thread are posts that state that high end is 'over priced'. While we may believe that, perhaps it is not over priced and is in fact priced at a point that the various vendors know their goods will sell. Since the old adage that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it is usually 100% correct; maybe the folks who are saying most (all) high end is overpriced-- are in fact incorrect? 

@daveyf This discussion may as well branch out into economics, art, politics and philosophy. 

I mean some artist sold a banana taped to a wall for a $120k. Is it overpriced? No because it's art...

Yeah the adage "something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it" is always 100% correct until you talk about utilities or medecine... Fortunately, we're talking about non-essential consumer goods here. So you could even argue that everything is under-priced and underrated considering labor costs. Only the high-end is priced 'correctly'. 

At the end of the day you vote with your wallet. The 'overpriced' question is not something for individuals to answer. It's more relevant if you're the seller. Ask the seller, not the buyer. 

Nope speakers are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars obviously! As well as amps, 20k + power and speaker cables etc. 

in luxury goods, price is one component of the value.  The manufacturer is not selling a function, they are selling the brand. Add limited production-  reduce the supply for the same demand and price may be increase even more.

The best part is: they don't need to sell any. They can keep selling the midrange stuff and claim trickle-down buzzwords and increase its price by 10%

Anything is possible 

No.  Fair market value is what a reasonable seller is willing to sell the product and what a reasonable buyer is willing to pay. If any product is sold, opinions from non-experts are worthless. I have some strong opinions about Hermes hand bags, but no one cares. 

@markalarsen The assumption of a fair market is the root of most problems in our world. There is no such thing as a fair market. The values are rigged or influenced by actors in that market. A direct example would be a monopoly, or oligopoly. These things inherently exist in any market, it's just a matter of time. 

Furthermore, the line between non-experts, experts and salesmen is very very thin and blurry. 

The value of Hermes handbags is 90% the brand and the assumption that its value will rise over time (due to limited production run and high demand). The physical object is worthless in comparison. The NAD 3050 LE is making a farce out of us. NAD will no doubt release a dozen similar amplifiers with slightly different features and specs. The NAD 3050 LE is selling like hotcakes because it's "limited edition" and it looks different. It also helps that the amp is predictably good in an NAD fashion. "You can't go wrong". 

So if you view Hi-fi like Hermes handbags, you'll be buying gear based on re-sale value. Not performance. That's probably the smartest way to go about it. I mean these vintage Pioneer and Marantz amps from the 1970s are shooting up in value because of "Hi-Fi influencers" (which are typically vintage shops trying to move products). You may as well buy them and sell them later for a profit. 

Lastly, there's no such thing as a reasonable buyer. You either have cheapskates, gear flippers or fools. 

I don’t know the answer to your general question about price evaluation. I can say some things on the specifics of the Orion. You reference hyperbole in the review and I can understand why if you’ve never heard the Orion. That happens all the time with reviewers. In this case in my opinion none of it was hyperbole. I heard Orions in the room that housed Wilson XVX at the Sound Environment in Omaha. To me the Orions are a better overall speaker than the 345k XVX. When Peter set up the XVX they held a presentation as they did when Josh set up the Orions. I’m told there were about 10 attendees that made it to both presentations. As stated in another Audiogon thread and verified by me with the folks at TSE almost all preferred the Orion. It’s a GREAT speaker. Now if you’re a horn guy you may not like them and that’s fine. To each his own. If you are a dynamic speaker guy and you listen without bias you can not help but be impressed. As far as cost goes consider 5/1 cost to retail as a starting point. Does Orion have 30k in cost? Well look at the video on its construction. 360 pounds of cast aluminum and carbon fiber! Every driver is new and was created specifically for this project which took 3 years to develop. Rockport is a small company. How would you amortize the engineering costs for this. Each driver was engineered fully by Andy. Nothing is off the shelf. Every speaker is listened to and measured by Andy and Josh. No two drivers or cabinets are exactly a like so each crossover is fine tuned by the owners before it goes out the door! That is not efficient but it is beyond amazing. Most sane people would say it’s absolutely stupid to pay this kind of money for a stereo. They have a point. In the world of relative value in this crazy hobby I would say these are fairly priced. 

It is possible for low end manufacturers to overprice their goods.  

People say audiophile gear prices are crazy and they might be right.  However, show me a (component) for cheaper that sounds as good in all categories,  

Unfortunately many times the price you have to pay is the price of admission for that kind of sound.  

I have been playing with audio equipment since I was 13 and now I am 50. I have worked in the industry on an off over the last 37 years. I was was a dealer of new and used equipment. In 2013 I purchased a huge collection of equipment that it took almost 4 years to sell. During the early part of Covid I started selling audio equipment again. I could own just about any kind of audio system I want. In Dec of 2019. I had a pair of Yamaha NS 1000m on L100 stands, a Bryston B60R and BDA 2, Bryston Moving Magnet phono amp, a Technics SL 10 linear tracking turntable with the factory moving coil cartridge rebuilt by the sound smith. The turntable has a built in mc step up transformer for the cartridge. A Simaudio Moon streamer. All of this wired with Mogami. I have owned some of the most exotic beautiful equipment you have ever seen and rarely does it sound as good as my cheap system. Much of the ultra high priced equipment rarely sounds all that great even with really well designed listening rooms. I still have the system that I have mentioned above. I do have a much more resolving system at my office. I have come to the conclusion that price has no correlation with sonic performance. There are many products that are well engineered, built well with great materials that perform at a very high level at a very reasonable cost and there is the pixie dust BS.

yes of course,, need profit 2000 percent minimum to survive for high end manufacture

For it to be really good it has to be expensive right?  

My current phono stage, a Schitt Mani, sounds great to me but it's so cheap that I keep thinking there must be something better because it's so cheap, but I'm not finding it.  If it were priced higher I probably would not be looking.  If I paid a grand for it I would make sure in my mind that it sounds great and wouldn't doubt it and I wouldn't be looking.  

I do not generally think that cost necessarily parallels performance in high end audio. I was recently at an old friends house listening to vinyl on a $1500 rig and it sounded great. There is a very real phenomena of luxury pricing designed to make people THNK it’s better when it’s not. That said the Rockport Orion is worth every penny. Joy and happiness achieved from music do not require anywhere near this investment. That is a different question.