Ideas for Pre/Power $9000?

@Ifromsalem - Stereotypes is worth a visit. Both echo and Stereotypes will let you demo amps in your own home, which is fantastic. 
 

Let us know how your search goes. 

@bluethinker I definitely keep an eye on Echo's site!

I'll have to check out Stereotypes. 

Btw - I just looked at the Echo website. There are a couple of McIntosh SS amps that just came in priced around $3500. Newer models. For metal, I think they’d be great. 

You could pick up some used speakers for under $3000 and still have a third of your budget for a DAC, streamer or upgraded cables. 

+1 on Echo Audio and Stereotypes based on your budget 

You can find some fantastic deals on high quality used equipment at Echo. And the owner is a super cool guy. Stereotypes is also good. They sell good stuff at modest prices. Nice guys too. 
 

Pearl is on the more expensive side. And one component could easily eat your ip up your entire budget. 
 

@immatthewj I'd say that it may have been a case of "too much of a good thing". Anthem brought a bright, snappy sound. Same with the B&W. I tired a few different songs. Not just metal. So I don't believe it was a genre issue. 

@lfromsalem  , my next upgrade (if it ever happens) will be speakers, so I am always kind of interested in the impressions that others are getting from their speaker auditioning experiences.  Do you think that the reason you were less than impressed with the B&Ws was that they did ot perform well with Metal?  Or was this just an overall impression (if this question makes any sense)?

@immatthewj driven by an Anthem STR integrated. Overall crisp bright sound with lots of top end.

@lfromsalem , I know that you said that you were not blown away by them, but can you expound upon that?

Do you remember what they were being driven with when you heard them?

@immatthewj 702 signature I believe. 

@lfromsalem  , which B&Ws did you listen to?

Synergy is more important than how much $ you spend.  ALWAYS go with a Good tube preamp and a decent SS amplifier and you'll never look back.

Yes you will absolutely hear a difference with metal and the ilk. Even poorly recorded material will sound better although not great. Not all of us listen to fruity tooty audiophile fare…. 
 

@coltrane1 

I beg to differ. Metal sounds quite good on my system. At least the metal that’s recorded well. And there is some like that. Check out any Tool album for reference.

Why is that? I currently don't have an amplifier, that means no music at all. So by your logic, I should just go without? 

Metal? Save your money. You won’t hear any improvement much with Metal. 

HegeL H590. Read some reviews that include measurements. On the used market they should be available. 2017 I tried a bunch of int's and separates in a similar price and power and the hegel H360 back then) was clearly the most neutral and dynamic. The h590 has more wpc, double the headroom and a new dac and now that the H600 is out the 50 should be a bargain.

PassLabs INT60

Class A to 30w

@lfromsalem Great idea! Good luck in your search.

@lfromsalem Check out the Paradigm Founders speakers, then report back your findings/preferences.  This would help us to narrow down other choices.  The Paradigm Founders got great reviews, seemingly a high value choice.

A used Hegel H360/H390 with the DAC is a popular/safe option.  

Agree - choose the speaker first, then compatible electronics.

Preamp+Amp vs Integrated - A separate preamp, amp, and DAC may make more sense if you plan to upgrade individual components later, but is more costly in extra boxes and cabling. An Integrated is a better economic "value" but cannot later update individual components.  

I'm excited for you - a $9k speaker+integrated update should be a major sonic uptick.  

Demoing speakers is best, ideal if in own system. But finding local stores can be difficult.  I demoed high-end stores in SF Bay Area and LA area, went to major audio shows like AXPONA, T.H.E Show, RMAF (RIP), Pacific Audio Fest before choosing my speakers.  I purchased an AXPONA demo pair.

I'm going to try and split the budget between an integrated and some new speakers. And of course I'll listen to as much as possible, within a reasonable distance from my location.

with your budget of 9k, pick up a used deHavilland tube preamp for between 1700 and 3000. Then a used Bryston 14b3 amp for 6000-7000. I have this combo and love the music I hear. 

Belles Aria Signature. BAT VK3000se being closed out. Gato Amp 150. All $4000-$5000 new. I own or have owned all 3 and all are terrific. 

for the list battle....

there is a best value curve at each price range, and let's say 4K for integrated and 5K for speakers: there are fantastic options.

for integrated I know and trust; Musical Fidelity, Parasound, Rotel, Primare, even Hegel fits the budget

for speakers; Dynaudio, Revel, KEF, MoFi, Revival, Totem, Monitor Audio, CSS, Triangle

@tunefuldude +1,

my upstairs system would be considered overkill by most normies opinions. Probably 13k if bought new at the time it was new which it is VERY far from. Anyway it’s very descent stuff and I paid probably 15% of that. At 100db it’s loud, cause 100db is loud! IMO. 
 

100db in the basement with Lyngdorf does not seem loud. It’s dynamic as hell and bass is absolutely killer but 0 fatigue. Need to keep in check to not hurt your ears. Kind of a strange sensation. 
 

@lfromsalem Sorry, man, my math was off ...

if you can score a TDAI 3400 for four grand you’ll only have $5000 leftover of your nine thousand dollar budget to upgrade your speakers, but I’d say that should be plenty!

And you'll be the coolest kid on the block.

But seriously, you'll definitely have the best sound!

@tunefuldude I will definitely take your advise and look into the brand. Sounds interesting for sure.

@jl35 I'm thinking analog integrated maybe the ticket for me.

In regards to an earlier comment by the OP, many Integrated Amps are available without any DAC or digital features…digital would be completely separate and upgrades up to you…

@lfromsalem 

OK, I’ve got a suggestin for you that’ll address quite a few of the issues that’ve already been brought up by other members. I’m not saying my answer is better, it’s just one of the ways you can skin the cat.

First of all, I’m glad to her that you’re open to buying used because you can maximize your bang for your buck that way, for sure. As you prob already know, generally speaking people who pay insane prices for this gear, especially! when they’re buying new, tend to take really good care of it. Almost all of the gear I’ve ever bought used has been in near new condition.

I’m hoping you can get over your fear of going the Integrated route because, as someone else has already mentioned, we’re now living in the 21st century and apparently the technology has improved to the point that that tends to be a bit of a misnomer now, that separates will perform better. Not always I guess.

Of course, some of the oldtimers who’ve invested a shitload of money in separates wil tell you that’s the way to go. Of course. But I’m gonna disagree. I’m taking this approach because I’m about 3 months into my ownership of a Lyngdorf integrated.

The other brand of integrated I heard mentiined is Anthem. And indeed there are some great offerings from them ... but ... theirs, or anyone else’s room control software that’s native to any other integrated isn’t going to perform as well. That’s not my opinion, it’s what all the reviewers say.

I can only imagine that some folks are gonna disagree with that statement, but I’m gonna encourage you to seek out some reviews and see what they have to say.

Whenever Ipersonally drop big bucks on a piece of equipment I read a s much as I can get my hands on, because it’s part of hat I enjoy so much about this hobby. And consistently, everyone! was talking about not only how easy the software is to implement, but almost all of them said it took things to a new level and outperformed other versions of room control.

I realize I may start a revolution by saying this around here, lol, but from the research I’ve done I learned that Lyndorf’s approach to digital amplification is uniquely different from anything anyone else is doing when it comes to class D design. Surely there are others around here who understand the electronic design and engineering stuff way better than I do.

My undertsanding is that even the digital amps that are getting rave reviews by Technics are not truly, or should I say completely digital. What’s unique about the Lyngdorf approch is that no feedack is required like in a traditional class D design.

Apparently their ICC software plays a role in the performnce also, but tbh I don’t really have an interest in the technical aspect outside of how it translates to performance.

Speaking of performance ... dude, are you ready to rock your socks completely off?

I’m not into metal, but 70’s rock and hard rock are among my favorite genres and I’m here to tell ya: you will have a big smile on your face if you go this route.

There are 3 versions of the TDAI. I’ve got the middle brother, the 2170. It was the first generation. They did away with that model and now there’s essentially a little brother and a big brothe to itr. And which one you can afford will most likely be determined by your pocketbook.

And power? The 3400 has 200 watts into 4 ohms. The good news about your Elac speakers is that the Lyngdorf will actually make them sound "the way that the speaker designer intended them to sound". And I’m thinking they’ll work just fine until you decide which speakers you want to upgrade to. And I recommend that it would be best to wait and score your speakers until after you’ve gotten to know your Lyngdorf, so to speak, so you can get the perfect match for you!

Oh, by the way, if you take this route and, let’s say you score the big brother model for four grand ... according to the budget you laid out you’ll have another six thousand dollars leftover to work with. !!! : ) Do I need to keep going on about this one box thang? Be sure and read what the reviews say about the necessity of a DAC with the Lyngdorf approach. And the wire with gain concept. It’s cool stuff.

I don’t want to try and explain the electronic design to a bunch of hard core audiophiles, because I don’t understand it nearly as wel as mostl. But surely there are some folks on this thread that can!

If you sit around and wait for a good deal to pop up and do a good job spinning a deal I wouldn’t be surprised if you could get one for four grand. Where in the world can you get this kind of performance for a price that’s anywhere close?

I read that you say you’re not covinced about the one box solution ... but I’m gonna suggest that you take another look at the option because I think it’s the way to go to get the sound you’re after!

Sorry about the epistle.

I'm definitely reconsidering my allocation. Also keeping integrated amps on the table.

I agree on system balance...I was merely stating the Elacs sale will be little help in getting better speakers to match the $9K electronics...and might be good in secondary system...and remain unsure why OP will not consider an integrated amp

I agree that there are many choices for either a pre/power combination or an integrated. That said, I believe if you are willing to spend 9K on amplification you aught to be thinking on spending about the same on each of speaker and source improvements down the road. If not I would advise rethinking allocation of funds across the board. 

there are many excellent Power Pre and Integrated amps at your price point. Your current speakers were excellent for the price...the new 6.2 version of them are on sale for about $600 pair including shipping, so not much value in selling yours...

9K is a lot of money for an amp. Especially used. You can buy a great amp (or pre and power) and a pair of speakers for that.

I could go down a long list of recommendations for each but the easiest will be to use the 30-60 days return policies of Amazon, Crutchfield, safeandsoundhq, AudioAdvice, etc. and try a few things. 

If you are willing to explore used - I'd consider Moon 390 and 330A.... It's a preamp with streaming DAC and phono stage and an amp. 

If you like your speakers why sell/off load them?

Because a poster here dissed them?

Pick up a reasonably priced amp (hopefully better sounding to you than your previous receiver) and move on.

To spend $9K on gear (based upon chatroom feedback) that you cannot audition makes little sense to me.

I'm nuts/have gobs of cash/money, because I'm frugal, and even I would not do that.

Eventually plan a longer trip/drive to audition gear as it's not like you live in a wasteland state (or even next to one).

DeKay

I will get Parasound JC5 AMP ($4K)AND JC2 PREAMP ($2K) the rest for speakers focal 1038 or depends your budget for speakers 

You might check out the Founders series to better match budget. At any rate, I think the Anthem is exceptional for the money and pairs well with Paradigm speakers. Good luck finding the right fit!

Even if you could audition, their room, equipment, power, etc would not sound like your room, and more likely radically different

@dekay the thought of trying to sell off more used equipment (since it sounds like i gotta off load my current speakers) isn't very appealing. 

@kerrybh my local store sells Anthem & Paradigm. I can go check those out. Although those Persona 3s are looking too rich for me $10k for a pair.

@rocray Always open to used. 

@tweak1 I struggle with the idea of staying with an integrated. And unfortunately I have no way of auditioning either of your suggestions. 

You don't need to spend $9K for really excellent sound. Consider:

Technics integrated amp

speakers (since you are a metal head) something like GR Research The Bully

HTH

 Is buying used out of the question?  Slightly used will definitely get you more miles per dollar.   Just a suggestion.  Enjoy the journey.

With your budget you can get a really nice system. If you prefer to spend it on departs and do speakers later that's certainly an option. For the money, you could do speakers and an integrated and be in a really good place 

for example, you could pair the Anthem STR integrated with paradigm persona 3 speakers- they go very well together- and have an excellent system. The room correction that comes with the anthem is superb and it would be pretty close to your price range. There are almost endless combinations, of course, but this is one that would give you a great sound, and really good bang for the buck.

Buying something inexpensive and well reviewed (to make the system operative) should not take much time and as it's inexpensive there is no rush/pressure to resell the unit.

DeKay

@dekay Great advice. I guess it's back on the speaker hunt. As I'm not really interested in buying, then selling an integrated. Just don't believe i have the time & energy for all that.

The rule of thumb is to find speakers that you like and then pick an amp/electronics that synergize well with them.

As you are sans an amp pick up a contemporary/decent "used" integrated amp (here @ A'Gon would be a good choice) for $1K or less and run it with the current setup.

Separates are not necessarily better than integrated's.

Hopefully you will find a way to audition a variety speakers whether it be by travel of having them shipped/returned or perhaps you will purchase something on the faith of a review and hit a personal jackpot.

By purchasing something decent used you can then resell it for little loss if you decide to step up to the next level.

It could even be that the new amp will sound quite a bit better than your previous receiver when mated to your current speakers.

This said, I also find the "room correction" amps (mentioned) interesting for your particular situation, but wouldn't spend a bundle on such until you find your fave long term speaker.

DeKay

I

Here's an option. Room correction, ability to connect any source and a power amp that'll run about any speaker

@soix Well I was only looking at speakers before my amp went down. As far as the replacement item i was budgeting for buy one more time, cry one more time. Hahaha

I'd split your budget in half.  Half for amplification and half for new speakers.

Big +1 @ozzy62 

Dang. I realize that the Elacs are not high-end, but I didn't guess I'd have to toss them out before upgrading the amps.

If you’re spending that much on amps and are also looking to upgrade your speakers you’re better off doing it all at once so the amps synergize with the speakers.  Pairing $9k of amplification with sub-$500 speakers is not a good idea IMHO.