My therapist tells me I have trouble making decisions. All the answers above have been very helpful and probably saved me a lot of money on therapy and I need extended session visits because 60 minutes is never enough time.
Audio component choices are never easy.
My biggest fear is the size of the speaker right now. This is why I raised a question previously about moving speakers around. I think I found a solution with some creative tools that may be able to position the speaker on a platform with low profile casters. And still allow me to retain spikes which is very important.
The problem with a used speaker is that you never know whether anything has happened that’s impacting what you’re hearing and you will be haunted by this thought forever. Fortunately if i ever had to get rid of them I know there are people out there that would probably take them as used and would be very happy. I tend to keep everything I buy and that’s why I have 10 speakers in my house right now and probably would be good to get rid of a few of them although thats difficult.
If I get a good price I’ll probably buy it new. I’ve got a very good dealer I work with.
Before I make the change I decided to replace a whole bunch of small tubes on my amplifier to see what that does and then proceed with a new purchase of speakers.
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And yet you still don't name these mystery speakers.
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Apparently you’ve many more questions than possible answers, sounding like a discombobulated post, try a new therapist before dropping 50 large..Lol
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Issue 1: Condition of Used Products
Either audition and inspect the product before purchase or buy from a trusted dealer like The Music Room or a dealer that sells the brand where they accurately describe condition and have return policies.
Issue 2: Depreciation
Yes, speakers depreciate 50% out of the box. Many respected brands seem to be selling for 35-40% new. Do your research on this site and the other sites to determine a bid. Prices will be at least 10% higher if you use a respected dealer rather than a private sale.
I had much success purchasing a used pair of speakers in your range.
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The speakers I’ve bought used have always been from dealers I know very well and trust. Never had an issue here; those speaker all performed flawlessly and looked mostly new. My current EV pro cinema speakers I bought used from a cinema technician in Germany that I didn’t know (they’d been used in a cinema in the Hannover region), but after some phone calls, e-mail exchanges and looking over his sales history at Ebay Kleinanzeigen, and not least upon receiving the thoroughly packaged speaker pallet and after rigorous inspections and tests once set up, I came to realize everything was A-OK and in perfect condition and working order. Worked like a charm ever since.
I’d concede that buying used speakers privately wouldn’t be my first option. I can certainly understand the concern in many, not least with expensive speakers, that would ultimately keep them from buying used speakers privately, but having said that: if I would get to inspect and audition the speakers thoroughly at the seller prior to purchase, and if the gut feeling told me I was having a conversation with an honest and level-headed guy, I might consider it. Still, haven’t been there so couldn’t say.
Which brings me to:
@ghdprentice wrote:
Some guys would be proclaiming what a genius they were for getting such a bargain and they would love that every time they sat down and listen to them.
For one, I’d rather pay less than more for the same product or what would grant me the same or better overall sound - wouldn’t you? I might suggest it could also be the other way ’round with regard to what you propose: that those who’ve been shelling the more or less full dime on a pair of brand new high-end speakers might be sitting content in their listening chair and feel all proud about themselves (and a bit better than others) knowing they could afford those new and very expensive speakers.
I know the feeling of unpacking and setting up new speakers and the joy it evokes, but at the end of the day all that matters to me is how it sounds, and sometimes what sounds the best or has the particular sonic traits one is looking for isn’t new stuff, the most expensive, preassembled, of smaller size, fancy looks, from a known brand and hifi segment or what is otherwise readily available at a store somewhere, so whatever it takes with an open mind.
To me the primary concern would be getting the most of what I want within a given price range, and ’new’ as a vital parameter would seriously impede with that goal.
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There are aps you can download on your phone that will map dB and frequency across the whole frequency range if you don't trust your ears.it will let you know if there is a deficiency. Dont worry about 10 speakers there like your kids hard to let leave the nest .people collect alot of things cars,boats,art ect a hobby is good for the brain it keeps it active.music calms the beast in all of us.enjoy the music and life.kee us posted as to what you do some of us live vicariously. Thx
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Unless you can cure your neuroses, buy the new pair.
Your doubts about the used pair are going to haunt you and ruin the experience.
Godspeed to us all
Over and out
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Therapy about speakers. It's all finally starting to make sense now. I’ve always thought that something was a little off, and now I understand. It’s harmless I guess. He’s not hurting anyone and seems to be a nice guy.
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Maybe I'll add to your woes here. 50% depreciation someone said? That's if you're lucky. Many or most speakers won't fetch 25% of their retail price. The audio market is as finicky and fickle as any. If a manufacturer goes out of business and your unit has proprietary components or drivers, you could be SOL as well. |
Is the finish acceptable? Not just the condition of the used pair, but the wood veneer or the paint choice by the original owner. Is it something you would choose for yourself? I'd be up for cherry in a used Treo CT for example, but I would pass on maple or zebrawood. At your level of cost you should certainly find the finish that calls to you.
However, if you save the 20k and go used, you can later find greater justification in trading up/over to something else. If you are a well-heeled experientialist taking a tour of the good stuff, then buying used opens more doors to whatever might call to you down the road.
On the other hand, if you are a perfectionist working toward the best of all possible systems in your space and setup, and you are not one to make changes every few months, then perhaps purchasing new is the best way to go.
Part of the fun is in the aesthetic of the choice, in my opinion.
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If you are sure it is your end-game speakers -> buy NEW
If you are NOT sure it is your end-game speakers -> Buy used and flip it later if you are not satisfied.
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@lanx0003
I like this comment, especially a lot.
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Pre-owned $50K speakers for the price of $30K is likely not a good deal with the vast majority of brands. Consider that it’s not uncommon to get a >/=25% discount on brand-new pairs in that price range. Only chumps pay full retail on $50K speakers.
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@helomech What specific $50k speakers have you gotten 25% off?
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^ Just go to any dealer slinging $50K+ speakers and ask them their out-the-door price. If they don’t offer you a minimum discount of 20%, I highly suggest seeking out a different dealer. If you think paying full retail is the norm, they’re laughing when you walk out the door.
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I've been out of the audio market 50 years, and my hearing isn't what it used to be, but I can see my 1977 vintage speaker foam surrounds are blown out, not worth repairing [again]. So while shopping speakers, wondering if I should change out the lamp cord for 'better cables.'
What happened to measuring the capacitance, inductance, resistance, and shielding of cables?
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I was pleasantly surprised to see so much good advice hear. Many analogies have been made, but at the risk of repetition, let me revisit one. Are you an enthusiast or do you have casual interest in audio? How much do you love and value music? If you're like me, music is one of those things that makes life so rewarding. To reuse the automobile analogy; if someone is an auto enthusiast and has been dreaming of the perfect car for him/her, then you want the car to be the right color, have the right engine, and possess your favorite options. Sure, when you drive the new car off the showroom floor you lose money on the used market. But are you purchasing the car for its value on the used market or purchasing it for the pride of ownership and the value of the ride and the thrill you get? High end audio is the same way, perhaps even more individual and emotional. Buy the speaker you want brand new. Get the color you want and the model that gives you that thrill. Not only is there pride of ownership, but there's the music that will be coming from these beauties and gracing your home! That's why we love audio!
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"
Just go to any dealer slinging $50K+ speakers and ask them their out-the-door price. If they don’t offer you a minimum discount of 20%, I highly suggest seeking out a different dealer. If you think paying full retail is the norm, they’re laughing when you walk out the door. "
So again what $50K speakers have you gotten your 25%, opps 20% deal on.
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Ya @helomech what speakers! I only got 10 percent off mine. 😢
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Ya @helomech what speakers! I only got 10 percent off mine. 😢
Wilson, Rockport, Raidho, Sonus Faber, ATC, Focal, KEF, Magico….too many to list.
Unless you’re buying a factory-direct brand, 10% is not a good deal I am sorry to say. Keep in mind that MSRP is typically between 80 and 100% more than dealer cost. They have plenty of wiggle room.
But don’t take my word for it, try calling around to a couple dealers and negotiating the price on some of the aforementioned brands.
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So again what $50K speakers have you gotten your 25%, opps 20% deal on.
I happen to know where I could go get a pair of Acora SRC-2s for at least 30% off.
It’s as though you guys don’t even peruse the ads dealers often place here on Audiogon, yeesh…
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And we wonder why so many dealers have gone out of business in the last decade.
"I demand 20% off or I'm walking!"
"Buh-bye."
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@emergingsoul do you like saving money? Buy used from a trusted seller and you should have no issue
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@helomech "I happen to know where I could go get a pair of Acora SRC-2s for at least 30% off."
Good disclose where.
You keep acting like you’ve made this 25% off deal in store so give the facts on your deal - brand, model, dealer. Post your system with pictures while you’re act it so we have the proof. Dealers make 20-30% deals on lines they are moving out of and on demos. Reading adds isn’t making chest puff deals.
BTW those Acora's aren’t $50K speakers - $37K
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Good disclose where.
You keep acting like you’ve made this 25% off deal in store so give the facts on your deal - brand, model, dealer. Post your system with pictures while you’re act it so we have the proof. Dealers make 20-30% deals on lines they are moving out of and on demos. Reading adds isn’t making chest puff deals.
BTW those Acora's aren’t $50K speakers - $37K
Actually the MSRP on those Acoras is currently $48K depending on finish, close enough. They just happened to be the first example that came to mind since it was relatively recent.
I’m not going to potentially throw the dealer under the bus by exposing him, even though he’s resorting to the same sort of deal making I’ve encountered throughout my time in this hobby. I won’t risk him losing the line since it might create animosity with Acora dealers an adjacent regions.
And you’re wrong on the margins— dealers usually make more than 20-30% on demos because in most cases they acquired their inventory for half or little over half of MSRP. If they were to sell them for MSRP, that would be 100%. That’s common consumer pricing structure BTW. The reason outlets like Crutchfield don’t offer similar deals is because they have a generally ignorant and loyal customer base. Any independent, single-store, brick & mortar dealer would be out of business in no time if they were only offering discounts between 10 and 15%, especially dealers in the high end market.
Again, don’t take my word for it, call around to some of them and ask what kind of deal they might be willing to make you on that Magico/Wilson/YG etc. Just because you didn’t get as good a deal doesn’t mean there are not good deals to be had. And yeah, early on in my time I was just as ignorant and bought more than one pair of speakers for full retail. Some dealers will only give good price breaks to repeat customers. But many if not most are willing to do so if you merely ask. Again, call around and ask. If they refuse to budge over 10-20% it’s because they likely think you’re flush and/or already smitten with the product.
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The amount of markdown you can secure when buying used audio gear, like in other markets, depends on various factors including competition and current market conditions. For example, before COVID-19, it was easier to get a 20%-25% markdown below MSRP when buying a car in a buyer's market. However, the situation has changed significantly now.
When it comes to audio gear, in my area of West Palm Beach, there's only one dealer carrying high-end gear, and his prices for new items are fairly firm. However, he's more generous with discounts on used gear, which helps on his cash flow. Negotiating more than a 10% discount on new items is difficult, and it largely depends on the brands.
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Like I thought you haven’t made a deal. And go look at the discoun5s offered on demos and discontinued lines versus blathering it's 20-30 %. Look at the Sound by Singer demo sales page as an example. Seeing an add at a discounted price isn’t walking into a dealer and face to face working on a deal on new speakers. so save the chest puff commentary
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The OP needs help making a decision; but, he'd be a fool to reveal the speaker that he's considering because someone more decisive could swoop in and buy the one that is currently on the used market. So, a tough mess to untangle.
@emergingsoul , have you seen the ad on The Music Room website for a pair of Rockport Technologies "Cygnus?" This model & finish lists for $70,000; and, it is for sale for $44,999 (+ 1599 shipping). The last sentence of the Soundstage Network review is: "You can buy these and never look back."
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The OP needs help making a decision; but, he'd be a fool to reveal the speaker that he's considering because someone more decisive could swoop in and buy the one that is currently on the used market. So, a tough mess to untangle.
Yeah right ...No such thing in the high end...it is always a buyers market and a desperate seller or dealer 
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So many great comments.
I guess the overriding concern that I have is that I think everyone knows speakers can be very overpriced and that’s really absurd.
Manufacturers create subpar speakers at lower price levels and tempt you to buy higher priced speakers that sound better. It’s a con game. They are taking advantage of the seductive nature of listening to things that sound really good to us. It’s affecting the part of the brain that lacks the good judgment when it comes to spending money.
Think about it, why are we being encouraged to spend $50,000 for the type of speakers we all should be listening to.
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@emergingsoul "
If you "know" that it is a con game then why are you even purportedly even considering $50K speakers and wasting everyone's time.
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@emergingsoul
I truly think that it is the exact opposite. I think that the manufacturers are strongly competing to put as much of their best technology as possible into their mid and lower priced products.
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@facten
Purportedly is the key word. I always wonder if a lot of members in this forum talk a big game with no skin in it.
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Purportedly is the key word. I always wonder if a lot of members in this forum talk a big game with no skin in it.
Troll posts?
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There's a track record of nonsense in this case
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Honestly, @emergingsoul ,
Is this whole thread even based in reality?
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@thecarpathian
It may have an actual grain of reality, but his threads always have that feigned Bambi innocence that asks the obvious and provokes controversy. It happens every time.
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Assuming both have return privilege, buy both at the same time. Audition them in your home side by side. If you can't hear any difference, return the new pair. If you hear anything bad from the used pair that you don't hear from the new, return the used pair.
This should result in COMPLETE confidence that you made the appropriate decision.
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I guess the overriding concern that I have is that I think everyone knows speakers can be very overpriced and that’s really absurd.
Manufacturers create subpar speakers at lower price levels and tempt you to buy higher priced speakers that sound better. It’s a con game. They are taking advantage of the seductive nature of listening to things that sound really good to us. It’s affecting the part of the brain that lacks the good judgment when it comes to spending money.
Think about it, why are we being encouraged to spend $50,000 for the type of speakers we all should be listening to
Get the flagship product of a brand that typically produces affordable product. A lot of aptitude, care and devotion will typically go into such a product.
You get the bottom end (deliberately gimped end) of a thieving brand and what you’ve mentioned could be true. There are some exceptions where good things can trickle down, but, that’s relatively rare.
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Are the $30K used speakers in the condition you would want? For that money, I would travel to see them and listen to them. If they were what I wanted and were in acceptable condition, I would buy used. The value, assuming they still worked should be more stable and less likely to depreciate as significantly as from new once already "used." What matters is whether the speakers still have manufacturer's support or absent that, whether key parts can still be sourced. I have bought new and used, and usually prefer the latter for the money savings. $20K is nothing to sneeze at, or at least it shouldn't be, and there are many things one could do with those funds. As for projecting how long you would keep them and rationalizing the new vs used costs, buying used affords you the option of selling them off with less loss if you should change your mind about them. IMO this same rationalization applies to many purchases.
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@chenry
I really don't think the 30K or the 50K speakers exist.
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The business of new vs used is difficult. 2 yrs in a speaker life is NOTHING.
Speakers sound better with use. Short of abuse, no worries.
But i would insist on hearing them in person, inspect for physical damage, make sure the mfr crates are in PERFECT condition, and either transport them myself if practical or ship with insurance.
1st flip on most anything in a 3rd party sale is 50% off plus maybe a little wiggle room. Is the MSRP 50K? Is the person the original owner? Warranty transferrable? Original purchase receipt available?
Do your diligence on such a large purchase. Nothing sells for the full MSRP these days, and if you bite, your problem becomes his ex problem.
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Reading these responses, I also have to wonder whether you are trolling.
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My therapist tells me I have trouble making decisions.
You’re making it way too hard and overthinking this. Seems like you’re going to have regrets whichever choice you make. Pick a lane, don’t look back and enjoy your speakers.
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Just get reasonably nice speakers and enjoy them.
Spend the extra money and enjoy live events and hear music properly.
Nothing beats a symphony orchestra. Not even $100k boxes that might sound 25% better than something 90% cheaper.
imho.
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Am I crazy or the rest of them are?
Do you really asking this forum for an advise of how to spend $50,000.00 on pair of speakers?
Do you realize that most of the opinions you’ve got is from members whose entire system cost less than that, and they should be asking you for an advise instead.
Anyway, it’s your money - do as you wish. However, at this level of pricy equipment, you should be knowledgable enough to decide for yourself.
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@tannoy56 wrote:
However, at this level of pricy equipment, you should be knowledgable enough to decide for yourself.
This says it all: have the money at hand, and your knowledge automatically follows 🙄
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If you can afford to buy them new, then buy them new. This seems easy to me.
I think the more important question to ask yourself is why you posted about speakers in the amp/preamp section.
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@phusis Only rich and dumb cowboy will spend $50,000.00 on a pair of speakers without any knowledge and experience, not to mention that he is asking total strangers for an advise.
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