I can’t believe it’s not butta.
I want to buy new speakers for 50,000 and see it used for 30,000, what should I do?
two issues here, would it be smarter to buy the used speakers not knowing where they’ve been or how hard they’ve been played or maybe there’s something wrong with them. And the other issue is what happens to the value of my speakers immediately after the box comes to my house. And I guess the third issue is, amI insane for buying $50,000 speakers.
It seems like I’ll be losing $20,000 immediately and of course probably a little more since if I ever sell they will need to be reduced further so used price can be 30,000 if a dealer is involved which they probably will be.
This raises a serious concern that very nice speakers are just too expensive.
Fortunately (and luckily) I’m not married so that makes this process a lot easier
175 responses Add your response
If there is no reason to believe the used speakers are in less than excellent cosmetic and operating condition, and you can know their provenance (i.e., not stolen or bought from a flood salvage liquidator,) buying the speakers at $30K reduces your loss on resale if you don't want to keep them. Speakers last a long time if well cared-for (and not stuck in a storage or a musty basement somewhere.) At $30K, I would insist on being able to travel to see them and hear them and if you buy them, being able to specify how they will be transported to you. Anything short of that would be a hard pass. |
There are a lot of really great speakers out there that are almost new for a significant discount. Dealer demos (ask them not to put “demo” on the receipt for future warranty, trade ins or open box. My last set was 15k and were as brand new for 10k.
it allows me to build a better system cor less and when i sell or trade the loss is much more palatable. |
Bump, how did I miss this thread? My dilemma with the used +$50k speakers is how they'll sound in my room, with my components? My current speakers do nicely wity my $25k Mac front end, but what if those new speakers actually need the CH precision, Solution, Chord or gasp MSB components with $7-10k acc's to really get there? I saved $25k on the speakers, but now have to shell out another $50-75k in used components and treatments. Every B&M dealer I've worked with has extended the offer to let me bring my gear in to hear and a couple dealers have even let me home demo speakers if they have demos on the floor. Once I start whittling away at the dealers price I'm trading their service in for a better bottom line and I don't have the experience they do with their products. Sometimes I think, if I could hire my dealer to set up my current system he could probably make it sound better than anything I bought at any price and set up myself. |
The OP’s B&W vs Sonus faber are very different sounding speakers. Although I demoed several B&W 800s speakers, didn’t resonate with me and seemed bright. Sonus faber is much more musical which translates to engaging. Although we all have our personal preferences in speaker sonics, hard to imagine the OP not liking the Sonus faber |
As Deep_333 said, the type of people that buy $50,000 speakers are not going to flog them. Their musical tastes likely run toward classical or jazz, neither of which are terribly hard on speakers unless deliberately pushed to the point of clipping. I’ve purchased used speakers since the early 2000s, and never had any issues. Ditto for speaker cables, interconnects and power cords, which I always buy used because they’re much less expensive AND already broken in. (I like MITs, which take 300+ hours to break in). What’s my point? Instead of buying a new pair of $50,000 speakers, look for a used pair of $75,000 speakers (the ones you REALLY want) for $50,000. You may also be able to find a dealer that has some taken some back as a trade-in towards a higher model that will throw in a full factory warranty to sweeten the deal. |
Speakers I’m looking at include the Sonos faber el cremonese, or amati g5, in 23 x 15 room, 8 foot ceiling. 80% home theater 20% 2 channel. It would be replacing a B&w 802 d3 powered by McIntosh mc901 monos. It’s a difficult decision. I like the curious design for additional woofers in the il cremonese, ie, built-in subwoofers. The crossovers for these lower speakers is 80 which is interesting as not much is going on at that lower level. But that could be taking a lot of stress off the other drivers so maybe that’s a good thing. How much of a sonic change do you think might happen if I replace speakers? |
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@emergingsoul , we now have 4 pages of comments, along with repeated requests for you to both identify your existing system and what "$50K speakers" you are contemplating. Identifying these hypothetical speakers is not so that someone else can snatch them from your grip but in order to give you the requested advice regarding whether it makes sense to buy them used or new, and whether they are "worth it." By knowing the rest of your system and room size, it is easier to give you valid advice (if that is what you really want). However, other than some sleuthing from another thread by another member to try to figure out what you have for a system, you have consistently ignored everyone's question, Why is that? Why keep participating in this thread when you intentionally refuse to disclose such basic information? Because of this, I have to conclude that you are just trolling and there are no "$50K speakers" at all. Come on . . . if you are going to fabricate a thread for general opinions, at least fabricate these mysterious speakers of which you speak. |
FFS @ozzy62 you've made that point 10x so far. We get it. |
Understood. And that is usually the premise we all operate under. But I think the OP is being disingenuous by starting a controversial thread only for the sake of making some arbitrary point and not to seek actual advice.
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@tannoy56 wrote:
And yet previously you wrote:
My earlier reply to you still stands.
It's what most are to each other around here, more or less strangers, so that's just the terms under which we mingle. Nonetheless we should be able to gain from the experience and opinions of others. |
I’ve traveled this exact road. I’m in the Northwest, listened to a pair in Florida and purchased my speakers from a dealer in Norway. (They took in on trade). No fear. Why? Most audiophiles, if not all, take really good care of their gear. Gear depreciates. I like saving money. But most importantly when I’m listening to music i’m not thinking of who owned my stuff before me. Im enjoying the music or the ride that high end quality can provide. Do your due diligence and have no fear.
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So now at least we know what your current speakers are. Now all we need is what 50k speakers you are considering? Please do tell. |
That’s an incredible acoustical design science project you have done to create an incredibly nice looking and no doubt Great sounding listening room. The massive doors are impressive. Choice of wood paneling also very impressive. As well as every single thing else. What a treat it would be to visit this room. Yes updated pictures as you mentioned in your virtual Area would also be nice. I’m trying to get the nerve to post pictures but I’m shy. Maybe if I upgrade my speakers I will do it. I Think I am happy with everything except my speakers which probably are really good but I I think I could do better, and I have to decide if I want to keep them because I hate giving up speakers. I just received a bunch of telefunken 5965 nos tubes and maybe I’ll hear something interesting. One of the primary problems is I really can’t leave my house due to some mobility problems so hearing other systems is difficult. I know what sounds good but I just have nothing to compare to so something out there may actually be better. |
@deep_333 comment is hilarious, and somewhat true. If this were a one time thing I'd ignore it and answer the basic question, but the reality is this is a troll post from someone with a history of nonsensical BS. Notice not once was the question of "what do you have now?" or "what are you looking for?" was answered. |
Love your comments. Not all of us are retired, but I do admit I'm getting close with each passing year. The 'wasting our time' comment was mostly based on the Ops lack of deciveness on whether he should buy new or used. We all know that spending money on most audio components is never a good financial. If the Op isn't comfortable buying pre-owned speakers then put your 'big boy pants on' and buy new. No need to drag us into the Op's indeciveness. |
I purchased used Legacy Focuses and Signature IIIs after 20 years of stats. That's what I could afford for full range speakers without high power requirements. Then I searched for my ultimate speaker I could afford (not the Von Schweikert Ultras I've heard). During Covid there were a few remodeled VR9 SE Mk2s available from the factory for $50,000. I ended up purchasing a updated, warrantied newly rewired pair with new Foundation (reliable) sub amps for $62,500 in mint condition from a private party who traded them in to the manufacturer's rep. I am overjoyed with the purchase. I stopped looking for speakers for my custom listening room. I am looking for a similar or better quality speaker for my living room (my current Sig IIIs are painted black walnut) in pearlized white or deeper red tone like red cherry, rosewood, mahogany. etc. (the room is pink, gold and off white). The cost to repaint is about $4,500 to $5,000 or find a wood pair (cheaper when available). That's my story. I am not considering market value or resale value. |
Putting aside the issue of op's earnestness, you'd have to get EXTREMELY lucky to sell most 50K MSRP speakers for anywhere near 30K, even mint current models w/ transferrable warranty. 50K isn't the number you're competing with on most new sales. And those in the market for 50K+ speakers often want the paint to match their Porsche (etc). Private sellers can't always be trusted to pack & ship large speakers properly, often at a much higher rate than a dealer/manufacturer gets. And if that MK / version number increments up while waiting for the magic buyer, you're taking a much larger bath. The used audio gear market is tough right now, and selling speakers has always been harder than components. |
@unreceivedogma wrote:
Agreed, and well put. Essentially, if one lists the total price of the setup he/she owns that has been acquired with mostly used components and chooses to go by new retail prices, it rubs some people the wrong way because it’s not the price that reflects what they were bought for by the latest buyer. And yet the product is the same but simply changed hands on its way to the current owner, and if well-kept and used sensibly (and not excessive in age) will do its job just as well - on top of the likelihood of it being properly run-in. Matters can be made worse or credibility lessened - that is, in the mind of the individual who insists on buying only new, expensive products, and as a rule lets price dictate quality - when a different, potentially lesser known brand from a different segment at a lower price is deemed the equal or (not least) better sounding equivalent compared to a range of more expensive alternatives, because it disrupts the saying that "you get what pay for" as well as the overall narrative of what constitutes audiophilia and the type of products used here. Maybe, at the core of things, the issue appears to be that one who has less of a financial basis isn’t really "allowed" to have the same sonic experience as the more wealthy individual; if so the one with the lower income is essentially cheating or even lying and must be belittled for having bought used and/or (it is probably assumed) dubious, ill-regarded products. Meaning: he isn’t part of the club but just a poor(er) sap who couldn’t get by a claimed, good sound any other way. If that sounds a bit dramatic and rather exaggerated, it likely is, and yet the subtlety of these mechanisms shouldn’t be ignored and underestimated; they’re right there alright, and you needn’t look too hard to see them for what they are. |
brag? Have you ever visited the virtual Displays of systems. This forum feature is probably the best in the world for showcasing peoples individual systems. It's absolutely remarkable. I can only imagine all those amazing systems that are not posted to this site. Truly inspirational what people do in their homes.
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Buy used from a reputable dealer. The used are often last years demo. Mine has credited me the full value of the prior purchase toward the newer speakers. As a licensed dealer warranty applies. And even if he doesn’t carry a line he stands behind the purchase. I’ve gotten to demo new equipment in my own system and he sets up the purchase. Turntable(reference) , phono preamp and speakers. Didn’t matter if it was a 8k purchase or a 40k purchase
knownwho you’re buying from and build on that relationship. |
How do you know what I plan to buy. I sincerely have an interest in buying overpriced speakers because they may sound better than what I have and my tube amplifiers may not be allowed to truly shine with my current speakers. But I didn't post to get a critique on my system components right here, just some overall philosophy issues that I'm dealing with. I happened to believe many of the people on this forum have great insights and because of how the world is so isolated from everybody else this forum presents an opportunity to pursue these types of things in a very helpful manner.
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Yes, I understand the basic premise of his point, it’s his weird way of delivering it. Simply bring it up for discussion instead of this constant false personal investment. My post about others posting wasn’t directed at you, it was for the guys who are giving him serious advice like he’s actually going to buy something. Either way, let him have his harmless fun. I'm out.
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I am not here enough to understand who most of the players are. It seems to me, judging from some of his comments in the thread, that he is trying to coax a discussion about the political economy of audio. Not in so many words, but that’s sort of it in a nutshell and that’s why I responded, because that’s an issue for me as well. Not the issue, an issue. And why I made it more explicit. I did get under one persons skin. Theres a little bit of trolling in the way he’s going about it, which maybe makes it an administrator thing, but imo the people who are saying he is not “real”, just don’t want to pursue what he is hinting at. Which is fine, but then why not just ignore it? Theres an unconscious thing going on here. my two sense. |
I’m in possession of a curious nature, and read, watch and listen to all manner of ideas and things. EG I subscribe to WaPo, the WSJ, The Guardian, Le Monde, Financial Times, Russian TV, The NY Times, Reason, etc. It is how you learn. I am 70 years old. I am under few illusions about the world and the range of people in it. I will not get to see the changes in behaviors that mankind must make if it is to survive. I do my best to conform to some of those needed behaviors. And I initiated some changes, eg fighting and winning a case at SCOTUS (thank you, Nino Scalia) that changed constitutional law. The rest is for the next generation to do. |
Sure they do. Those cable threads are about guys who actually own the cable or are contemplating actually buying some, being challenged by the guys who think expensive cables are nonsense. This threads non reality is he isn’t contemplating buying anything, let alone $50,000 speakers. Just another one of his couple hundred "please pay attention to me" threads. He seems a decent, amiable, harmless fellow. I’ve no idea why he insists on fabricating this nonsense. |
Agreed. I’m here to see what’s going on, but there is a disciplined method to how I go about audio. I decided what my ears prefer at an early age - tube v solid state. I chose the former. When digital came out, after a certain period I decided to stick to analog. When it comes to collecting vinyl, an original press almost always sounds better than a 21st century reissue and even/especially a remaster. I buy second hand and refurbish because that’s the way to get the biggest bang for the buck and the bonus is that it’s also environmentally sound and not buying into wasteful consumerism. I stick to a path and upgrade/add accordingly. Bottom line: the best musical experience at a cheap-rat-bastard price. I have guests say that it sounds better than being there. Good enough for me: spend the excess dough on people less fortunate than I. And a new added bonus is that I get to disgust @roxy54 , 😉 |
