Coach,
Yes in a trade up situation they do.
Some Horns to hear:
JBL- $5-$10k range.
Altec Lansing- $1.5-$3.0
After that the prices get out of hand.
Good news is the Klipsch followers love them
and will take them off your hands in a hurry.
How much of High End Audio is Horn Speakers?
An audio friend of mine had been discussing my future speaker purchase. We discussed, Harbeth, Devore, Spendor, Audio Note and other more traditional speaker brands. A week or two later he called an asked me what speakers I had purchased. When I told him Klipsch, there was a little silence on the other end of the line. Our call probably ended a little sooner then usual. I could tell he was disappointed in my purchase. Is it the Klipsch name that illicits this type of response or is it Horn speakers in general? After thinking about some of the other Audiophiles in town, a good deal of them are on the low power high efficiency speaker route and more than a few I know are using Horns. Does anyone know how the high end market share is divided? Is there a stigma associated with certain lower cost Horn speakers? Or is this just Klipsch? I now own a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls and am enjoying the journey associated with tweaking the sound to my taste. Is there an unwritten rule that friends don’t let friends buy Klipsch?
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My recently purchased Forte 4s sound wonderful with my 12 yo Onkyo HT receiver. I bought them to use with low-powered SS and tube amps (which tend to be more affordable than hi-powered amps). Dying to drop them in my BAT/B&W reference system but the holidays have me feeling too mellow. Maybe after new year. As for your friend, maybe he was disappointed that you used your own judgement instead of taking his advice. People can be a little weird. BTW, our friends, the Japanese, were way ahead of the curve regarding horns. This was a craze in Japan 30 years ago. |
You’ve asked several different questions, @coachpoconnor> (Were you really a coach?) Your title asks about what share horns comprise of the high-end, and I doubt there are any definite sales figures for market segment (and how much does your definition of what constitutes a horn frame the answer), but I think it is safe to say that some horn systems, new, can be at the very top of the price tier if that’s how one evaluates the "high end." As you know if you’ve been around, there is a flavor of the month, and today’s "must have" becomes yesterday’s cast-off. Aside from what constitutes a horn-- I think even what I own does not qualify without the upper bass being horn-loaded, you can run the gamut: from million dollar plus assemblages that are still incomplete, to very "one-off" projects that may have been a bit of DIY plus antiquarian. The interesting thing to me is the period immediately after WE-- though those components (both speakers and amps) are treated reverentially today, at the time they were not regarded as sufficient. Thus, the quest for better motion picture sound which took us to Shearer, James Lansing, and eventually Altec in the early days. There are lots of interesting parts-- how one puts them together in a horn based system is almost alchemy-- I think ideally, one would want the individual drivers to run their full range without complex crossover networks. Horn loaded mid-bass takes space. As does a horn loaded woofer (or two). As to Klipsch, I have no current impressions. I had a friend in the ’70s with a period pair of K-horns, Marantz tube gear from the very early ’60s and it was fine. I think the innovations that Paul Klipsch is known for have been improved upon, modified and recast but I’m certainly not in a position to diss the company, its products or legacy. I will suggest that very high sensitivity speakers will allow you to use SET tube amps, which can bring a magic of its own. That’s why I switched to a horn based system circa 2006 or so. Now, I’m fascinated by the history and what some of these older designs can do. For example, you will pay top dollar today for a field coil speaker. At one time, that’s how the magnets were energized. Things improved enormously, but there’s still something "extra" a well tuned horn system, utilizing complementary equipment upstream, can deliver that is special. A sort of immediacy, plus dynamics, and no harshness (or the commonly ascribed attribute), "squawk." Have fun and good hunting. :) |
And what would "the amount of money spent on horns vs other speakers" tell you, @coachpoconnor? Let's say you are in the distinct minority. Does that diminish the enjoyment of what you have?
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whart- yes I have been a coach for several years, I have coached Football, Baseball, Soccer and Golf. Also a short stint as AD.. Thankless job. Trying to get out and retire in the next couple of years. As to your reply, I am also fascinated with the history of Audio. I have an acquaintance in Kansas who is working on a field coil system and one of these days I’ll make the drive to the middle of Kansas to have a listen. When people discuss horns it would be interesting what the market share is but I guess you would have to define exactly what would qualify as a horn and that would open up another can of worms. |
I like horns. There is a lot more out there than people think. 90% of the people who own horns and all the other speakers don't post or care to post. I think the 10% that do post 3 out of 10 do own horns, maybe not AG so much but there are a LOT of Klipsch, Altec, WE, Imperial, and DIY. The comment about the Horns and Japan, it was the same here. It's just who you hang out with. I was into making all these weird horns and loading them in a folded baffle, la-te-da. Way over 20 years tinkering, still do from time to time. The simple answer is horn guys hang out with horn guys. Planar guys hang out with planar guys. Mcintosh guys hang out with Mac guys.. Maybe.. LOL The common thing between all of us is suppose to be MUSIC, how we get there, that is a personal preference. Regards |
I have always preferred high sensitivity speakers and built my own cabinets. That lead me to trying horn speakers. I acquired a pair of Klipsch La Scala AL5s this year. The La Scala’s paired with tubes are simply stunning. To me these are my final speakers (at least until I get bored and start building more 😂). There is zero wrong with Klipsch speakers. Their speakers can hold their own with any brand out there. In every hobby or interest there are people who are “snobs” when it comes to what you own. Ignore them and enjoy those fantastic horn speakers. The speakers your friend is building with the field coil drivers will be really cool. The next set of speakers I build will use field coil drivers. They won’t replace my La Scalas, but I want to pair them with tubes. |
Interesting topic, not unrelated to other recent threads on high sensitivity speakers. For me, the question comes down not only to how to pair these with various kinds of amps, nor the tonality, but the dimensionality of the sound. What is the imaging like in horns vs. planars vs. domes? How does the room feel? In other words, in my understanding -- corrections appreciated -- it is possible to get tonality and pacing pretty close to perfect with the right match between amplifier and speaker, but that will still leave wide open the way the soundstage is presented by the speakers. And, here there is no "best," either, but the choice of which genre of soundstage become the decisive choice point. |
There is a lot of anti-horn sentiment out there. I had no interest in horns prior to 1980's era Klipschorns falling into my lap. Prior to that I had used a series of open baffle and box speakers, very much liked sound staging of open baffles, box speakers not as much. But then coherence and timbre were extremely important to me as well. Last speaker prior to Klipschorns were extreme modded Merlin VSM-MM, I was not unhappy with Merlins (still own), but intention for any replacement was another open baffle speaker.
This is when Klipschorns came into my possession, certainly curious how they'd sound but with with very little expectation I'd like, thought I'd flip them if not enjoyed. So, first listening, totally original including crossovers, this sense of live performers in room struck me, I'd never heard this characteristic to such an extent prior. I had issues with timbre, coherence, tonality, but this uncanny sense of live performers in room made me keep them, with intention of modding to fit my needs. And so, here we are a few years down the road, my modded Klipschorns will stay in my possession til I die!
I'm no Klipsch Heritage expert, I've never even heard other Klipsch, but I assume this uncanny sense of live performers in room is initial fascination with the line. Even in stock form, highly resolving and transparent, and I see continuing evolution in attaining more natural tonality, timbre.
Add to this ability to run horns with various low powered SET, each with special characteristics, one can really voice or flavor system to heart''s delight. |
This is exactly what sold me on the La Scalas. The Klipschhorns were even better, but I don’t have the space for those monsters. I would need to build a new house with a space to support that sound field. The Klipsch heritage line is stunning. |
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Party pooper, :-) There are some lively horns for sure, that's half the thing with horns tinkering until you change types.. I still like messing with them at someone else's house. I like JBL C45 Rangers, LOTs of fun. Say what you will they sound good in most rooms. Maybe curtains, and carpet. Tannoy makes some nice sounding units too. Regards |
@acman3 So they should not be part of the discussion. I really do not care just making a point that only JBL and Klipsch are ever mentioned. Not a horn guy. |
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First and foremost, if you like your Klipsch Horns that is all that matters. Screw everyone else. I have owned higher-end Wilson Audio and Sonus Faber Speakers. I now own horn speakers and will NEVER go back. I listened to over 50 different pairs of speakers around the country before deciding on Viking Acoustic Grande Voix Dual horns. IMO, horn speakers are not as popular in the USA and there are not a lot of horn dealers. That in itself is a problem. Then you have the WAF factor. Some horns may not look like they would fit into room decor. Horns are very popular in Europe and Asia and some of the better horns are made in Poland. I had considered Klipsch, JBL, hORN Universum, BD Design, Tune, Deja Vu, AvanteGarde, Charney, PureAudioProject, Aer, Cessaro, Volti to name a few prior to ending up with Viking. Klipsch and JBL are readily available in the USA so they are more popular at a nice price-point. Enjoy your Klipsch and don't worry about your friends. |
And, as some of you may know, a lot of horns conducive to modding, many sources for attaining your sound preferences. Volti mid horns part of my mods, so, yes Volti another horn to pay attention to. I did try damping my original mid horns, not to my liking, band aid approach, Volti tractrix fit the bill.
Sound staging, imaging was concern of mine coming from Merlins, speakers designed from scratch for maximal ss and imaging. My Klipschorns don't really give up much to Merlins here, even in stock form not bad at all, always strong dimensional phantom center image. With mods, strong aspect of overall performance, and I'm a sound stage, image freak.
My take on horns is timbre purists assume you can't get natural timbre out of horns, not true. Horns come in many flavors, well designed, engineered horns made with natural materials critical in attaining top flight performance here.
Speaking of field coils, couple years ago visited Classic Audio Loudspeakers Brighton Michigan, specializes in field coils. Didn't get a chance to listen as he was leaving for show that particular day. Had lots of JBL cabinets at time I visited, been meaning to return. |
To answer the OP’s question, years ago, Klipsch did have name cache with audiophiles. (about 45 years ago) That eroded as boutique American brands appeared as well as the great British brands. At that point, the image of Klipsch became less exclusive, because they expanded beyond the Heritage range to less expensive models as well as moving into home theatre. Meanwhile, they still produced a few of the Heritage models, and steadily improved them. Today, with the renewed interest in the improved Heritage models due to the enthusiastic professional and consumer reviews, I think that the Klipsch image has really regained some of its former luster and prestige. I have owned Khorns, Cornwalls and still use Epic CF 4’s as my main speakers,. This past weekend in fact, I bought a pair of KG 3.2 off of Craigslist for $150.00 for my shed, and they sound amazingly good. |
Klipsch have good potential ,for the inner Xover is the weak link, even their latest model the Xover parts are very cheap and not even a average level of 6-7 15 being the best theXover being the ❤️ or 🧠 of the speaker ,this is not a isolated incident even in $15 k speakers None have top parts go to Humble homemade Hifi Capacitor test , you will see what I mean Duelund are the most expensive and at top level , And byw all Copper foils are the best poly caps are sprayed metal on plastic and paper Jupiter, Milflex ,VH audio Copperfoil are also very good each sounds a bit different , resistors Mundorfs new Copperfoil resistors are the most detailed , path audio is a close second a bit warmer , many use cheap Solen caps, or from Taiwan ,even in Harbeth ,revel and many others ,even Wilson ,they bough5 Rel caps kthey are better then average but not near the top.I told the engineers at Marten Logan on their flagship $80 k speaker mid grade Mundorf Evo capacitors Really ,a $20 cap ,at least put in Mundorfs best silver gold oil which are very good , ifyou can’t see many companies cheat ,also gold brass connectors ,when copper gold is 3 x less resistive ,more conductive , I am just making a point after modding Xovers for 20 years now. |
Here's the deal... no speaker is perfect each type has strengths and weaknesses (conventual sealed box & vented, electrostatic, ribbon, horn, and a few others). There are so many types due to people's preferences between speed, dynamics, imaging, resolution, tonal color, frequency range, AND cost. I have made the journey over the years between several types and top brands and have landed back with horn speakers for the last 3 years and continue to love them. Do not be detoured by what others preferences are or brand snobs. This hobby is a journey, enjoy the ride and discovery along the way. |
I have Wilson's for two-channel and Klipsch for Home Theater. I had the K-Horns and felt that they were super harsh (could have been the volumes we played them at too). I got the Chorus II's, love em. They are still fun to listen to. I heard Avante Gardes a couple of years ago, what struck me is everything was fun to listen to - no matter what you fed them, sounded good. If it is a bad recording, my Wilsons are going to make that track unlistenable. If you like the Klipsch - awesome! I want to hear the new PS Audio speakers - they look very interesting. |
Thanks everyone…I didn’t come at this change blind… I had some Epos speakers that were very bright and I sure didn’t want that again. When I worked as a Audio Salesmen in the 70’s I sold JBL speakers and I hated them. To be fair our showroom was horrible, so they probably didnt get a fair shake. So I did have some anxiety about Horns. I just finished Room treatment reorganization. The added/ rearranged absorption has helped the Bass response. Change some cables back to Zu Event.., and that has been good. I also purchased a Coincident Statement Linestage to hopefully go along with some future Frankenstein 300b monoblocks. So far I’m impressed how well they sound with the Pass XA25. Thanks for everyone’s comments. |
These horns tick all the boxes if you have a few hundred grand to spare. "Media Acclaim & Awards | Vox Olympian | Living Voice" https://www.livingvoice.co.uk/acclaim-munich-highend.html
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Sorry, horns belong on the top of poles at HS football stadiums. You cannot understand how they mess up sound reproduction until you listen to them next to an accurate speaker like Magnepans. Before you buy, give this a try IN YOUR ROOM. If you still want horns, fine. I think you will figure it out, however. Cheers! |
Klipsch speakers are very particular about what you feed them. If this is a hassle for you, move on. They are also very sensitive to placement. Again, hassle for you, move on. Lastly, there have been numerous improvements in the Heritage line in the last few years. Don't base your opinion of Klipsch on a pair of 70s Lascalas that you heard back in the 80s being driven by a receiver in a less than optimal room. This happens a lot and people post their opinion as fact. The new Heritage speakers are able to compete with anything in their price range and not be embarrassed. Sometimes way above too.
As for @jasonbourne52 and his measurement fetish, JA measured the Khorn on a dolly in Art's driveway. This is a speaker that is designed to use the corner of a room as the last fold of the bass horn. What would you expect that graph to look like?
Oz
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@coachpoconnor You're on right track with Coincident Statement and future Frankenstein. I use Statement MkII and custom built 300B monoblocks or Coincident 845SET with the Klipschorns. All are wonderful match for horns, different flavors with amps, but both great. When you get the Frankensteins be sure to use top line power tubes, as for Statement I've found Linlai Elite solid plate best, followed by Psvane WE, then Linlai Elite mesh plate, any of the cheaper variety will sound bleached in comparison. |
Congratulations on the Cornwalls. While your buddies are contemplating their next speaker you will still be enjoying yours I’ve had Forte IV since February and love them . They sound even better since upgrading my electronics They sound like live music, not many speakers in their respective price convey a “live” sound like they can .
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@coachpoconnor Spectacular choice of electronics! Enjoy your toys...! |
