Hostility from manufacturers

Chill out, its only stuff and all products follow that business model.

You don't describe what the allegedly hostile interaction was, but many manufacturers prefer that the dealers handle the customer service aspect. I don't know you or what you expected from this company, but some people expect a manufacturer to provide free repair out of warranty or things like that. There are some companies known for outstanding customer service and perhaps you should only deal with them.

"Maybe they would like us to send our components to the scrap heap every few years or so just before we purchase their latest upgrade."

Of course they would! Manufacturers would like nothing better than for us to buy their products, use them briefly and discard them in favor of their newest model. That's how the term "planned obsolescence" originated.

Manufacturers find it abhorrent that consumers would trade their products on the secondhand market. I'd like to know why. When a product is purchased, whether retail price or at a discount, that's one more unit moved that will need to be replaced in inventory. If it was made and sold by a factory, someone got paid. I just call it arrogance.

I own Sonus Faber speakers and some time ago I read here on this forum that SF has stated that they will not assist any consumer that needs to source replacement of any component of their brand unless it had been purchased from an authorized dealer and they had the papers to prove it. Are they serious? Brand loyalty is precious, and manufacturers need to understand that. Again, arrogance.

In contrast, there have been stories here about smaller companies going the extra mile to help. Unfortunately, it seems the larger the company, the less likely to have those stories repeated. I have had great service from KimberKable and Music Hall, but ignored by a company like McIntosh.

In summary, I agree with you. I would call it arrogance rather than hostility, but every interaction with these companies is unique. Sometimes, it just depends on who answers the phone.

OHM Acoustics has teh best model in teh industry IMHO.

They provide support and many upgrade options for every model they ever sold. Of course they will gladly sell you new speakers as well, but they also offer trade-ins of older models so they can refurb teh cabinets and offer the latest and greatest drivers mounted in refurbed cabinets for a discount.

Their business model is built mostly around word of mouth from existing owners so their business model is built around providing many options and having all the bases covered for existing owners, no matter what.

So stick with a company that focuses on customer satisfaction and not selling the latest and greatest expensive gear alone and things will probably work out.

In my limited experience the 'elite' brands are some of the worst offenders. My most recent experience: I wrote to a cable manufacturer, asking him if I could pay him to shorten and reterminate a pair of expensive interconnects that I was thinking of buying on the secondhand market. His answer was, of course, 'no'. This is a tiny company that has no dealer representation in my state.

Manufacturers are short sighted in this business and it will bite them in the ass.

I'm surprised the maker wouldn't at least quote you a price for the work. He's throwing money away IMO.

I've dealt with Bel Canto, PS Audio and Resolution Audio concerning used pieces I've owned. All three have given exemplary service knowing full well I was not the original owner of their equipment.

Upgrade once a year.

Personally; I've only been faced with 2nd hand component problems twice. Both surfaced shortly after purchase, one with a TacT RCS 2.2X and the other: an Audio Magic Stealth XXX. When I called the companies, requesting repair estimates, both offered to cover the repairs under warranty, based on the serial numbers/component age(I still own both). YES; companies yet exist, that care about their customers.

That's good to hear.

Another one: I purchased a pair of 'audiophile' speakers here, in near-new condition. I telephoned the designer of said speakers (let's call him Andrew), in order to get some basic information about the crossovers. I was asked to put my question in an email, which I did. Unfortunately all of my emails and voice mails after that initial phone call were ignored. Not even a simple 'sorry chap, but I simply can't help you'. Thanks Andrew!

Never any hostility from Odyssey Audio and Klaus Bunge. I am the second owner of a pair of Odyssey Extreme Monoblocks. Klaus Bunge gladly transferred the warranty. Klaus Bunge has always, always, ALWAYS given me SPECTACULAR service. He has talked with me AT LENGTH over the phone. He is the antithesis of a hostile manufacturer. I post this because your thread reminded me of just how great Klaus has been over the years, offering a nice contrast to what you and some of the others have described. Not only is his service spectacular, his products represent some of the finest VALUE in all of high end audio. AND, if I understand correctly, it's made in the USA.

YEP! Odyssey is manufactured right here, in Indianapolis, IN.

Yes, Klaus very generously supports used buyers of his fine amps.

Echoing the above - Klaus is fantastic in terms of his support of 2nd hand equipment, and genuinely one of the good guys in audio.

It's no surprise that several other Odyssey Audio customers have IMMEDIATELY posted their own independent confirmation of the favorable Odyssey Audio comment posted above.

I'll certainly echo the comment that Klaus is "genuinely one of the good guys in audio."

He has many satisfied customers (as evidenced by the very small sample of us on this thread) and with good reason.

Many small "boutique" firms have no service because they have no way to send what you bought for a big buck back to the Chinese factory where they bought it for a small buck.

That's why I stay away from Chinese products.

Right Taters, I love the stuff selling on here as "factory refreshed", somehow I just don't believe they sent it to China and back.

Hello...

I have purchased more used equipment than brand new over the years as means of being able to afford some of the more revered and renown products that other members have opined about,  I've read about,  or even have had an opportunity to listen to.  Most of the time,  finances permitting,  this has led to me purchasing the new versions of the stuff I first bought used thinking the brand new versions were a safer bet.  True in almost every instance.

People who drive the better automobiles tend to take care of them,  same goes for higher end audio equipment.  

Pass Labs M2 amplifier - used from Reno Hifi,  which led me to buy a new X150.5 amp.  In between the two I contacted support at Pass on the used and they could not have cared any less that I bought it used.  Exceptionally courteous people.  Customer for life...

Peachtree  Audio:  I purchased a factory refurb 220se integrated amp that arrived DOA.  A brick.  One email to support,  three people responded within a few hours.  They shipped a new unit with a return shipping label.  In fact they practically fell over one another to keep me as a customer.  They did.

Thiel Audio:  contacted them regarding repairing the midranges on my used CS 3.5's.  Super nice people who recognize that their legacy products will only keep bringing them new customers.  (Though I haven't yet - can't give these speakers up!)  Exceptional considering that these are about 20 years old.

I purchased a MW 150SE amp.... used and it was originally a sliver color. I contacted MW about getting it re - skinned to black, after several email and phone calls, all was set. The seller sent the amp directly  to MW, once received Dan called me and suggested some updates it needed to bring the amp to current specs. The customer support was nothing but first rate, from a high quality company. I own a mix of new and used MW products, remain a satisfied customer.

It's really nice to hear about all the good experiences and high levels of customer satisfaction from these manufacturers. It will tip the scale when I consider a purchase, new or used.

It is good reading, knowing, that there are companies that still "serve" us consumers. 

It is so great to see this thread go positive. Let's just not get started on dealers.

Yea i throw everything out once a year and get new stuff.

I've had great experience from Pass Labs pertaining to an INT-150 I purchased used. They fully honored the warranty and when my INT-150 sustained shipping damage on its way home Pass was absolutely superb. 

Great to hear that there are several manufacturers producing great products and providing great service. No need to deal with those that do not. 

Well, not surprised about PBN.

In all things Audio, I have learned "IN PETER WE TRUST" 

I'm glad to hear the success stories, thanks for sharing. Smart business leaders understand the value of service after the sale and the blessing of a good reputation.

Being customer focused pays big time in my experience. Ironically, companies that fail tend to blame everything but themselves for the fall. 

As everyone has been saying, it depends on the company owner, or in bigger companies, their policies. Everyone is pretty happy with ARC in the latter. In the former, Bruce Thigpen of Eminent Technology is great to deal with, as is Roger Modjeski of Music Reference, the Weisfeld's of VPI, and of course Keith Herron. EAR-Yoshino's Tim de Paravicini I can't say, but his American distributor (Dan Meinwald) is an absolute a-hole.

Atma-sphere, Pass Labs and Modwright have always offered me absolutely exceptional customer service.  

Of course they would! Manufacturers would like nothing better than for us to buy their products, use them briefly and discard them in favor of their newest model. That's how the term "planned obsolescence" originated.

Lamm must be missing the boat since their model M1.2 Reference amps that I own have not been changed since they were first introduced  in 2004.  Longevity......greener than recycling.

I wrote to a cable manufacturer, asking him if I could pay him to shorten and reterminate a pair of expensive interconnects that I was thinking of buying on the secondhand market. His answer was, of course, 'no'.

Cardas has done this for me twice, as has Star Sound.

Steve McCormack has twice turned my old used McCormack gear into absolutely fantastic sounding, compete with anything, showpieces.

You should deal with a better class of manufacturer, there are many out there.

I have not had a lot of experience dealing with manufacturers of equipment I've bought used on Audiogon, but I have dealt with McIntosh and PS Audio and have nothing but good things to say about the experiences.

I purchased a McIntosh MAC6700 and though it was connected to an APC UPS, we had some sort of power "blip" while it was playing, corrupting the firmware.  I called the local dealer and they sent out a technician to re-load the firmware, and I was back up and running.  Of course this was a service I paid for (the unit was not under warranty).  Prior to that, I was considering purchasing an SACD player on Audiogon where the photo had the serial number blanked out with a slip of paper, contacted McIntosh to see if they had a list of stolen items, and they responded quickly.

As for PS Audio, I purchased one of their DirectStream DACs (new, from an authorized dealer), and they have provided multiple firmware updates on their website and have had questions from time to time and have had the pleasure of speaking with their technical folks, who were very helpful.

The only hostility I ever encountered came from Roy Hall.

Out of all the items I have purchased used, I have had three companies I reached out to.  All instances, I was treated like a preferential customer.   The first being Aric Audio, the second being Accent Speakers (Nola),the third was the Hornshoppe ( Ed Schilling) Each responded very quickly, and answered questions I had. I couldn’t ask for more.