Help with XLR ICs.

@ryder I’m also interested in the Tyr2. I compared a Shunyata Alpha v2 XLR ($3500) against my Synergistic Accelerators between my Esoteric K-05XD and Diablo 300 and preferred the $1200 Accelerators. Very system dependant.

@audphile1 or anyone, would like to know if you hear a rather noticeable or significant difference when you changed from the Acoustic Zen to the Nordost Tyr XLR, or any XLR to another XLR cable?

Currently I have two pairs of XLR in the price range of $2k and although there’s a difference it’s not night and day. I wonder if a $4k XLR will provide a bigger change in sound? In my experience power cables bring a more significant difference than XLR interconnects.

I’d definitely recommend Mogami Platinum Studio XLR cables. Platinum Studio is made with a Mogami w3402 bulk cable, a customized version based on the W3173. It is assembled in Torrance, CA. The XLR plugs are from G & H. Been using one between my CDP and DAC for a few weeks and love the sound. Going to order two more pieces for one of my pre/amp combos.

I don’t work for them (or anyone else for that matter).

@atmasphere You might try a pair of Mogami Neglex XLR cables just for fun. They are not expensive and they are very good.

Thanks, I will take a look!

@zlone You might try a pair of Mogami Neglex XLR cables just for fun. They are not expensive and they are very good.

@atmasphere Thanks for clarifying that equipment can be balanced and still not support the standard, I think that this clears up a lot of confusion.

I have been trialing some XLR cables recently, in this case a friend loaned me some Wireworlds and Analysis Plus cables. A very distinct difference in sound between these cables, you can't miss it. I guess my equipment (Schiit->Benchmark->Coda) does not follow the standard.

does that translate to: if the equipment is truly balanced, then the XLR interconnects do not make a difference, but if the equipment isn't balanced but instead just has XLR but is really single-ended, then the XLR cables matter similarly to single-ended cables?

@jji666 No, a lot of gear out there really is balanced. But that isn't the same as saying it supports the standard. To support the standard, AFAIK the source driving the cable ignores ground. So a phono cartridge, which is floating, is a good example as is a dynamic microphone.

When it was done with tube equipment in the old days a line transformer was used. To do it solid state you have to have a circuit that is OK not referencing ground (these days there are chips  like this one for that) or you use a transformer. There is a third technique using a patented circuit that involves a Circlotron output.

So most balanced gear for home stereo use simply references ground, IOW there are two single-ended outputs, one out of phase with the other. This does not support the balanced line standard, so the cables will affect the 'sound' and different cables will sound different. I think this is really bad because first, the balanced line system is supposed to get rid of this problem and second because if you think about it, none of the cables you ever choose would really be 'right'- we all know that next year the people that made the 'best' in a shoot out would have a better cable (likely for more money) and if they don't someone else will; hence all the answers to this thread with different suggestions!

When your gear supports the standard there's none of that- its all plug and play with no worries and the best sound of the cable possible.

Thanks. So does that translate to: if the equipment is truly balanced, then the XLR interconnects do not make a difference, but if the equipment isn't balanced but instead just has XLR but is really single-ended, then the XLR cables matter similarly to single-ended cables?

This is a serious question, not intended as a flame: can someone please explain to me, given the topology and function of balanced circuits, how any particular XLR cable composition can make a significant difference in sound, since whatever influence is cancelled back out by the recombination of the signals at the receiver end?

@jji666 The issue is that there’s a balance line standard (AES48) which most high end home audio equipment does not support. The result is that the shield of the cable is used for audio signal return much like it is with single-ended cables. So the construction of the cables, along with the capacitance resulting, makes a difference. Part of this has to do with the fact that the source impedances are higher than studio equipment as well as the input impedances of the equipment being driven.

There are high end home audio preamps that support AES48 and can drive impedances typically found where balanced lines are used in professional (broadcast, recording and so on) applications. If these preamps are used then most of the conversation of this thread is moot because the cables no longer make a difference (which is a large portion of the intention of balanced lines in the first place)!

Iconoclast UPOCC Gen 2. They are the high end division of Belden .They will send you the cables to try . If you do not like them they will pay for return shipping also. You have zero dollars out of your pocket to try. Fantastic cable and company to work with 

@nagel  please check your messages in here. Mike. 

I didn't read the whole thread, but I'll be putting my AQ Thunderbird 0.75M XLRs up for sale in a few weeks. Watch for those, strong bass, excellent sound, same family, just didn't work out in my system.

I have an ARC REF 6, and I use Shunyata Anaconda XLR's, which can be had used at very reasonable prices.  In fact, I have a Shunyata loom because I think that their cables sounded so good in my system.  I have them between my MSB DAC and the ARC REF 6 and to the Pass Labs 250.8.  Surprisingly, when I replaced the ARC stock power cable with a Shunyata Alpha v2, the improvement was clearly audible -- enough to make me very happy with the purchase!.

Mogami is the best you can get for most gear, the prices company charge for simple copper is insanity, if you want gold wires you need gold all the way from the generator. Making your own using neutik or switchcraft gold ended connectors is nearly the best you can get 

This is a serious question, not intended as a flame:  can someone please explain to me, given the topology and function of balanced circuits, how any particular XLR cable composition can make a significant difference in sound, since whatever influence is cancelled back out by the recombination of the signals at the receiver end?

I do agree that well constructed cables that don't lose signal are beneficial.  I'm a Mogami fan.  But those are street cables compared to what is being recommended here, and I am not understanding how the composition of an XLR cable would be as with single-ended. 

@tattooedtrackman I’m happy that the Pegasus interconnects have already sold (they sold very quickly). Also, I don’t even think about the ultra expensive cables like Firebird or Dragon, because, for me, they’re so far outside of the realm of affordability. But, it’s ok the dream. Besides, no need to spend that much, as reference quality sound can be achieved by much less expensive cables than Dragon or Firebird, such as Pegasus, IMHO, and Thunderbird. The Dragons and Firebirds of the world were created strictly for those who’s pockets are much deeper than mine. Comparatively, I may be able to afford a nice Mercedes, but Rolls Royce is simply out of the question, Lol. I was extremely fortunate and to stumble upon a brand new pair of Thunderbird XLR, .75m, at a substantial discount. I got lucky on this one.  Also, thank goodness for the good old internet, on-line, used market. Yes, I’m extremely excited, and look very much forward to the arrival of the AQ Thunderbird interconnects. I’ll be sure and post my thoughts on the Thunderbird after I get a chance to get them fully burnt-in. Happy listening.

@kennymacc  I totally believe what said about AQ ICs.  I have been looking for 2 pairs of Thunderbird ICs.  1m and 2m. I wish I could have afforded the Dragons but right now they are totally outta my price range. I’ve read a lot of fantastic reviews of the Thunderbird ICs and also really feel that they would totally be the end game for me as well. Right now I’m lookin for them used for about 3 weeks so far and nada. Did u buy yours brand new from AQ ? And do u still have the Pegasus? Would u be selling them when u get the Tbirds ? Also I would love to hear your impressions of them vs the Pegasus. Net ya can’t wait for the Tbirds to arrive!! Happy listening!!!! 

@tattooedtrackman 

Jeff Smith of Silversmith Audio (and Fidelium Speaker Cable fame) recently came out with some XLR ICs--i bought a pair of them 12' in length for around $1700--they are top notch--i still don't see them on his site but contact him. I was buying speaker cables from him when he mentioned them. His cables are supreme value for quality.

Over the past 25 years, I’ve owned several different high end XLR interconnects, from several different manufacturers. About three years ago, I switched from another brand to a pair of Audioquest Earth interconnects, and they were just wonderful from top to bottom. About a year later, I got the itch to upgrade to the AQ Pegasus. Now, the Pegasus were so absolutely impressive and amazing in my system, they could’ve very well been my end-game interconnects for the long haul. That’s how brilliant the Pegasus sounded and synergized in my audio system. The AQ Pegasus had that "it factor" in my audio system. However, as great as the Pegasus sounded in my system, and, I mean great, the next level up in the line, the Thunderbird, was hauntingly calling my name. So, I just recently ordered the Thunderbird XLRs, which were at the absolute outer edge of my humble budget. I’m currently anxiously awaiting the Thunderbirds arrival. I strongly believe that the Thunderbirds will finally take me off the interconnect merry-go-round, and will ultimately become my "end-game" interconnects. However, and I mean this very sincerely, I could’ve been very much happy and satisfied with the absolutely incredible sounding Pegasus interconnects, which totally blew me away, and were even somewhat difficult for me to part ways with.  So, I can only imagine how great the upgrade to the AQ Thunderbird interconnects will sound in my system. Yes, I have fallen deeply and madly in love with AQ upper tier interconnects. Happy listening.

Thanks Tattooedtrackman. It's very useful to have your listening impressions versus your previous cables. It's always useful when people provide a comparative perspective.

Changed them one at a time to the AQ Dragons  to hear the difference. 

That’s exactly the path I took — one Acoustic Zen cable at a time and ended up with a full loom as the benefits were additive every step of the way.  The key is finding that first cable that just sounds “right,” then you’re off and running.

@swede58 Tyr 2 are best balanced top to bottom XLRs I have ever had in my system. There’s great detail and resolution, clarity in the mids and speed together with drive and texture in the bass. Presentation is laid back but at the same time very engaging. There’s no brightness or sibillance in my system with these cables. Highly recommend. But…cables at this level require equipment that’s top notch. If you have garbage in, you will get garbage out. 

@yoyoyaya  I  originally was using the Shunyata Sigma HC for my ARC Ref 6Se. Shunyata Sigma Ztron digital for my ARC Ref 9 CDP and 2 Shunyata King Cobra Helix CX for my ARC Ref 750s. Changed them one at a time to the AQ Dragons  to hear the difference. And each time I heard bigger sound stage. More depth. Details were so much more revealing. Better clarity. Also the Shunyatas were extremely bright compared to the AQ Dragons. Definitely worth the upgrade for me and my system. 

@audphile1 I’m interested in the Tyr2 XLR. How  would you describe the bass, is it on the lean side of neutral?

I tried the Shunyata Alpha v2 XLR against my Synergistic Accelerators but found them too bright and they also lacked bass impact.

Analysis Plus Solo Crystal XLR. They are make cables for the recording industry and have various levels of interconnects, speaker and power cables. I have a loom of Analysis Plus Solo Crystal interconnects in one system and all DH Labs interconnects in my other system (Air Matrix Cryo and phono cables) I use Purist Audio Design Poseidon Speaker cables and love them. My 2 cents and that is what it is worth. 

@tattooedtrackman - that's interesting to hear of your experience of Shunyata versus Dragon in power cords. That's a comparison I haven't done personally.

The rule of thumb with Mogami is that they are competitive with audio replay cables at the same price level.

Agree. The mogami and canare target market are artists making and recording music as a profession.

@elrod Thanks but I’d rather deal within the states. 

Inakustik in Germany has fabulous cables. Their TOTL XLR 1m cable goes for around 2K. They have a try before you buy program, but I'm not sure if they'll extend that to the States. Wouldn't hurt to check...

The rule of thumb with Mogami is that they are competitive with audio replay cables at the same price level. They do not provide better sound for the money. So, they are not a secret “better sounding” cable for high end audio.

@quantos  I am not hear to get into a discussion that probably will turn into an argument over what I can hear with cables. Also I do not have “too much money “ I work hard and save for all my audio equipment. 

@yoyoyaya  + 💯.   Hearing is definitely believing. When I changed all my Shunyata high end PCs to all AQ Dragons I was amazed what a huge difference I heard. 

@audphile1  Ty  I’ve seen them also. One huge giveaway is the price.Even private sellers u have to watch. 

@OP Yes, Thunderbird is also excellent.

As to the above post, reputable cable companies like Audoquest have spent decades developing an understanding at a conceptual, objective and subjective level as to why and how cables influence sound quality.

Utter waste of money. If you need to spend that on well marketed and really poorly engineered cables I’d suggest Monster cable with Neutrik XLR connectors. You’ll save a crap ton of cash and I absolutely guarantee that you won’t notice any audio difference at all. Both are incredibly overkill.

(why do marketers prey on innocent people that have too much money and don't understand how audio works?)

Maybe you can get away with Tellurium silver diamond or their statement interconnect for lass money.This are good cables. Zensati cables as well they have good reviews. I have not heard them .

@audphile1 

@bigwave1 I agree. Mogami mic cables will work just fine. Similar to how Civic size wheels and tires will work on a Porsche if you can find rims that fit the logs.

Yea, but:

WHY MOGAMI?

There's a reason why Mogami is called "The Cable of the Pros." Virtually every major recording facility is wired with Mogami, which means that just about any music you listen to has passed through Mogami somewhere in the recording chain—from Fleetwood Mac to Foo Fighters, from Prince to Pearl Jam, and countless others.

Yup

AQ will validate but will also destroy fakes - reputable sellers shouldn’t mind routing the cable to Irvine, CA for that verification or providing equivalent documentation….

@tattooedtrackman a friendly warning…careful buying used AQ cables. Lots of fakes in circulation. Applies to Nordost as well. 
Here’s an example…AQ Thinderbird

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256804736451139.html

I’ve had the top 4 AQ IC in my system ( 2 M XLR ) between REF Phono 2se > REF 5se for 2 weeks ( this is where it helps to have a relationship w a dealer w muscle = Audio Ultra in Seattle ). You can see pics of the rest of the system ….. AQ wild Blue out to the monoblocks on the virtual system pages. IMO Pegasus and next higher are value game changers…. great copper bass that gives up a whisker of definition each time you climb higher in Silver….. 

Best to you in your musical quest !
Ref 750 w 6 is quite something :-)…

@yoyoyaya I just was talking to my ARC dealer and he suggested that if I can’t afford or find the Audioquest Dragons XLR cables used that the AQ Thunderbirds are phenomenal cables for the price. I also will be looking at trying to find the AQ Firebird XLR used. This is the top of the line AQ cables. Dragon > Firebird > Thunderbird. So with that being said that’s my goal.  

@OP. It's worth trying AQ FireBird. Over your budget perhaps, but significantly less than Dragon.

@bigwave1 I agree. Mogami mic cables will work just fine. Similar to how Civic size wheels and tires will work on a Porsche if you can find rims that fit the logs.
The car will drive and will take you to the local bagel store.
But we’re talking about performance here. Not purpose. 

@OP, Search recent threads on AES 48 standard. If your equipment supports the standard, differences between XLR cables may not make any difference at all. Mogami Gold quad core 2534 microphone cable maybe all you need. Atmosphere has addressed this in the past. 

+1 ghdprentice

I have Audio Research 160S amp and Ref6se and use Transparent XLR interconnects and Transparent Reference Speaker cables and Power Cords. Major improvement over my Audioquest that I was using. Speakers are Wilson Alexia V.

have you looked at cables on usaudiomart? They have Transparent  XLR there  

Let us know what you decide.

I use Morrow cables throughout my system and highly recommend them. If you decide to upgrade, they will take your old ones in trade. 

You've got to be kidding me.  You've got to try (insert the brand I own here).  Or even better, you must hear (brand I've only ready about here).  First world .00001% problems.