Constraints: output impedance should not be high (as my amplifier’s input impedance is quite low)
I tried C2600 (but with different amp / speakers).
Recently, I tried Rogue RP5 - sounded great but it does not have XLR out (H30’s unbalanced input impedance is a measly 9.6 kilo ohms). So, a natural recommendation would be the Rogue Audio RP7 - except that in the Stereophile review’s measurements section, John Atkinson recommends not using the pre with amps with less than 30k input impedance (affects low frequency response).
am looking for a pre. using a Primaluna Evo 400 and am currently demoing an atma-sphere mp3. I don't have a Backert dealer where Im at, so I'd have to blind buy, get it shipped international and fork out for customs fees etc. all in all its a bit harrowing to blind buy at such a price.
Could someone with the backert preamp describe how it is in general?
Is it more of a tubey, warm smooth sounding pre or tends more to the neutral, fast, immediate side?
The MP3 has that warmer sound with great bass and mids. seems like the opposite of the Primaluna preamp.
An update on my search: TL/DR - I am a proud owner of a VAC Renaissance Mk V.
I ended up buying a Rogue RP7 to try out from a fellow Audiogon member. It sounded nice for its price. The issue I have is that I have a very high gain setup (my DAC output is 5.8V). The Rogue RP7 is a high gain preamp and my speakers are pretty sensitive (93dB at 4 ohms).
So, I thought I better try some low gain tube preamps.
ARC Ref 6 gain is only 12dB. However, a concern is that its high output impedance might not be a good match with my H30 amp. Also: the REF6 might be too forward for the Beryllium tweeters in my speakers.
I went to Xtreme Fidelity northern NJ. Tom Canavan was fantastic and I could not recommend him enough. He had the VAC Master with Briscati Monos on Tidal Agoria speakers. That would be the first time I’d be listening to a VAC tube preamp. I had read a review in Stereophile on a older VAC preamp that was not flattering at all.
It was, surprisingly, not what I thought it would be. It sounded very linear and, frankly, the setup sounded quite similar to what I had at home. So, I took that off the list (while mentally noting that the sound at my home must be decent then).
I was about to purchase a Backert Rhythm 1.3 when I saw and ad for a used VAC Renaissance Mk V on Audiogon. Taking a flier, I bought it, expecting not to like it.
However, I was wrong. In my setup, it sounded fantastic. Big soundstage. Very natural sounding instruments. And very holographic (had good depth). Instruments like the saxophone had body (which my SS preamp did not).
I apologized to Tom. In retrospect (and this is a tall ask), if I had gotten a at-my-home audition, I’d have purchased a new Renaissance Mk V from him instantly as my preconceived notions were wrong.
Haven't looked at all of the responses but you should check out Linear Tube Audio's preamp. It is an ideal option. i have a customer who is running one with a Hegel amp and there is good synergy.
Any opinions of the sonic differences between these similarly priced tube preamps:
Backert Rhythm 1.3
VAC Renaissance Mk V
Sorry for the repeated questions: it is difficult as auditioning such hard to find pieces is not possible (without buying from manufacturer with a view to audition - which I feel is a bit cheeky).
I currently use a Atma-sphere MP-3.2 that I got used. Only using it as a linestage with a Zesto phono pre and and a DAC. Balance in for both sources and out to a Zesto Bia 120. It's quiet, dynamic and not finicky. Bad news for some there is no remote volume. I was using a BAT before and while meeting all of your criteria, it was not as dynamic as the Atma-sphere. I will probably upgrade and not because of the sound quality but user convenience. There are only two prospects, a Zesto Leto or an Aric Ultimate. I only need to balanced inputs and one balanced output. Both the Zesto and Aric fill those requirements. I'm leaning towards the Aric as the output level is adjustable via resistor steps and he's in my home state.
This pre amp shines in my system . . . very different approach. Hashimoto MC-10
The HM-3 is a simply amazing step-up transformer for MC cartridges. We are not quite sure if it's appropriate to mention the HM-3 on this Web site because this step-up transformer can be a treasure not only for tube amps, but also for any audio systems that equips with a MM phono stage. The basic idea of the MC transformers is to amplify the MC cartridge output signal to the acceptable voltage level for MM phono equalizers through a transformer - without an active amplifier. With the HM-3, the sound image becomes very wide and deep with three dimensional representation. The low sound is very tight and the high frequency is crisp clear. In essence, the vinyl sound through the HM-3 is the closest to the real live music.
VAC’s customer service is renown for being awful — unforgivable at their price points IMHO and I’d never give them my business when there are so many other excellent brands out there that actually support their customers— VAC, ARC, Atmasphere, CJ, etc.
@soix Interesting you decry VAC customer service and then recommend them. I have owned 5 different VAC instruments over many years and always received excellent customer service even though they were not purchased new. I’m not sure about your personal experience or if you are just quoted something your read, but I find it completely foreign to my many years of experience with the brand.
The Atma-Sphere has the output impedance you require, which needs to be at least ten times less than the amps input impedance. Too bad it's a boutique company though:-) CJ has been around a very long time.
@jtcfFWIW Dept.: Atma-Sphere will celebrate 50 years of operations next year, but perhaps you need it to be longer than that to be considered a 'very long time'?
The MP-1 was the first balanced tube preamplifier, introduced in 1989 and to this day is one of the very few that supports AES48 with the ability to drive 600 Ohms with ease. This means it (and our MP-3) can drive multiple amplifiers with no worries.
I also had a Rogue RP-7, which has balanced in and out, and it is a very nice preamp especially considering its price. But it's not in the same league as the Backert Rhythm.
@markmuseThanks. I see the Backert recommendations here. Intriguing. However, apparently, my DAC sounds better in a balanced setup. Also, my amp's balanced inputs sound better than the unbalanced ones.
@reg19I also had a Rogue RP-7, which has balanced in and out, and it is a very nice preamp especially considering its price. But it's not in the same league as the Backert Rhythm.
@reg19 The 6SE was somewhat mechanical sounding - hard in the mids. The Backert is smooth! with a huge soundstage. Remarkable detail without getting in your face. Rich, large, detailed, smooth, emotional. It just sounds like music...
That is with the RCA 12SN7 tubes which is what was recommended and supplied by the reseller I bought it from (Dr. Vinyl - Jose Ramirez - in MD). I have the stock tubes (Genelex 12AU7) but have not used them.
I think the gain is a bit higher with the 12SN7 tubes and balanced output, but I don't know the values. But still less than the 6SE and much less than the Cary 05.
If you liked the Rogue RP-5 but want balanced I have a Rogue RP-7 that I just haven't gotten around to listing yet
@rmdmooreI sent you a message. It is intriguing - but I hope that the bass is not rolled off due to my power amps's 26k input impedance (the Stereophile review alluded to that).
ALAL great recommendations. I’ve used a tube amplifier for years and so my choice was the VYL 6.5 pre amp. It added depth and soundstage to an already sweet system (DAC is a Brinkmann Nyquist). I live in So Cal and the VTL is manufactured near by-that was a big factor in the event it ever needs service.
+1 for the Backert Labs Rhythm 1.3 with NOS RCA 12SN7 GTA. Replaced my ARC Reference 6 SE with it and couldn’t be happier.
@markmuseHow would you describe the difference between the two preamps you mentioned? I like that the gain is just 9db and it does have a low output impedance.
I have owned the Mac 2200 and it was very enjoyable, I am currently using the 5SE and think it is a next level pre. Holographic soundstage and a step deeper into the music. It really shines in detail and a natural lifelike presentation. I was surprised how much better it was than my MC2200 which was a great preamp.
If you liked the Rogue RP-5 but want balanced I have a Rogue RP-7 that I just haven't gotten around to listing yet but will be doing soon. I've done a fair amount of tube rolling and it current has all NOS amperex 12au7 in it. The tubes alone are worth $500 or so. I have the original JJ tubes as well. I'll give you a good deal on the unit and tubes if you'd like.
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