Help recommend a good tube preamp


I am looking for recommendations for a good, fully balanced tube preamp (< $4k - $12k) for my system:

DAC: Holo May

Power amp: Hegel H30 (input impedance (balanced / XLR) = 25k ohms)

Speakers: Focal Maestro Utopia III

Room: 20ft X 21ft

Music: mostly jazz / classical. Some classic rock.

Preamps tried before: McIntosh C2600, Hegel P30, Holo Serene, Rogue RP5

Constraints: output impedance should not be high (as my amplifier’s input impedance is quite low)

I tried C2600 (but with different amp / speakers).

Recently, I tried Rogue RP5 - sounded great but it does not have XLR out (H30’s unbalanced input impedance is a measly 9.6 kilo ohms). So, a natural recommendation would be the Rogue Audio RP7 - except that in the Stereophile review’s measurements section, John Atkinson recommends not using the pre with amps with less than 30k input impedance (affects low frequency response).

 

Thanks.

Ag insider logo xs@2xreg19

I would recommend reaching out to Aric Audio. He now offers his Motherlode II in a fully balanced model. The balanced model is the Motherlode XL.  http://www.aricaudio.com/products.php?product=MLXL#desc No affiliation, just a very happy customer. I own the non balanced version,the Motherlode II.
Aric is very easy to get in touch with, and is very knowledgeable.

Thanks for the recommendation, rocray. I understand that in this industry, there are a lot of great designers producing great products on a bespoke / small-scale.

I’d prefer to stick to the more established lines if possible.

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What preamp are you using now, and what kind of sound characteristics/improvements are you looking for?

Might take a look at the Bryston BP 17 cube. balanced impedance is 4.5kΩ. If you step up to the BR 20 you get their DAC module (which you already have) and streaming platform.  There is Also a Modwright LS300 over on TMR for $11K.  Don't know anything about Modwright myself but I do like running Tube pre's with SS amps.

 

 

I would suggest the Backert Labs Rhythm 1.3. Fully balanced and the best preamp I’ve owned to date. When you start tube rolling, get some adapters and use NOS 12SN7’s to replace the 12AU7’s. It’s very sensitive to tube rolling.

I would suggest the Zesto Leto Ultra II preamp.   I had the original Leto with the ESP power supply upgrade and it sounded amazing     The latest model is even better.   

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The Atma-Sphere has the output impedance you require, which needs to be at least ten times less than the amps input impedance. Too bad it's a boutique company though:-) CJ has been around a very long time. The two pres I owned from them had outputs of 50 ohms though,so nope.Best of luck in your search.

All potentially good choices.   I recommended the Zesto because it has everything under the hood.  RCA , XLR,  2 pair RCA out, two pair XLR out , transformer coupled inputs and outputs.  Unbelievable sound,  super quiet, dynamic , detailed ....

Output impedance is 100 Ohms.   Great preamp, even better company.  Zesto support is first class.  I can't say enough good things about them. 

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+1 for the Backert Labs Rhythm 1.3 with NOS RCA 12SN7 GTA. Replaced my ARC Reference 6 SE with it and couldn’t be happier.

VuJaDe audio can build you a custom one for your system for that price range.

My friend Karl Tam makes them.

What preamp are you using now, and what kind of sound characteristics/improvements are you looking for?

 

@soix the details are in the opening post.

If you liked the Rogue RP-5 but want balanced I have a Rogue RP-7 that I just haven't gotten around to listing yet but will be doing soon. I've done a fair amount of tube rolling and it current has all NOS amperex 12au7 in it. The tubes alone are worth $500 or so. I have the original JJ tubes as well. I'll give you a good deal on the unit and tubes if you'd like. 

AUDIO RESEARCH REFERENCE 5 SE, 6, 6 SE

VTL  TL 7.5

MCINTOSH LABS 2700?

I have owned the Mac 2200 and it was very enjoyable, I am currently using the 5SE and think it is a next level pre. Holographic soundstage and a step deeper into the music. It really shines in detail and a natural lifelike presentation. I was surprised how much better it was than my MC2200 which was a great preamp. 

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Atmasphere and ARC are fully balanced and fit well with your sound profile. 

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Might take a look at the Bryston BP 17 cube. balanced impedance is 4.5kΩ. 

@jbuhl That is very high output impedance - too high for me to use

What preamp are you using now, and what kind of sound characteristics/improvements are you looking for?

@soix The details are in the 1st post. I have used C2600 (Mac) and Rogue RP5. Liked both - particularly the RP5 sound. Both use the same tubes.

+1 for the Backert Labs Rhythm 1.3 with NOS RCA 12SN7 GTA. Replaced my ARC Reference 6 SE with it and couldn’t be happier.

@markmuse How would you describe the difference between the two preamps you mentioned? I like that the gain is just 9db and it does have a low output impedance.

ALAL great recommendations.  I’ve used a tube amplifier for years and so my choice was the VYL 6.5 pre amp.  It added depth and soundstage to an already sweet system (DAC is a Brinkmann Nyquist).  I live in So Cal and the VTL is manufactured near by-that was a big factor in the event it ever needs service.

If you liked the Rogue RP-5 but want balanced I have a Rogue RP-7 that I just haven't gotten around to listing yet

@rmdmoore I sent you a message. It is intriguing - but I hope that the bass is not rolled off due to my power amps's 26k input impedance (the Stereophile review alluded to that).

@reg19 The 6SE was somewhat mechanical sounding - hard in the mids. The Backert is smooth! with a huge soundstage. Remarkable detail without getting in your face. Rich, large, detailed, smooth, emotional. It just sounds like music...

That is with the RCA 12SN7 tubes which is what was recommended and supplied by the reseller I bought it from (Dr. Vinyl - Jose Ramirez - in MD). I have the stock tubes (Genelex 12AU7) but have not used them. 

I think the gain is a bit higher with the 12SN7 tubes and balanced output, but I don't know the values. But still less than the 6SE and much less than the Cary 05.

@reg19 I also had a Rogue RP-7, which has balanced in and out, and it is a very nice preamp especially considering its price. But it's not in the same league as the Backert Rhythm.

I also had a Rogue RP-7, which has balanced in and out, and it is a very nice preamp especially considering its price. But it's not in the same league as the Backert Rhythm.

@markmuse Thanks. I see the Backert recommendations here. Intriguing. However, apparently, my DAC sounds better in a balanced setup. Also, my amp's balanced inputs sound better than the unbalanced ones.

C2700 Is a very feature rich preamp. I have one and after tube roll it's one of the best I've tried for the money. 

@reg19 The Backert Rhythm 1.3 is fully balanced, XLR in and out. That is what I use.

 

Might take a look at the Bryston BP 17 cube. balanced impedance is 4.5kΩ. 

@jbuhl That is very high output impedance - too high for me to use

I just realized that is listed as input impedance.  Output is not listed :/

The Atma-Sphere has the output impedance you require, which needs to be at least ten times less than the amps input impedance. Too bad it's a boutique company though:-) CJ has been around a very long time.

@jtcf FWIW Dept.: Atma-Sphere will celebrate 50 years of operations next year, but perhaps you need it to be longer than that to be considered a 'very long time'?

The MP-1 was the first balanced tube preamplifier, introduced in 1989 and to this day is one of the very few that supports AES48 with the ability to drive 600 Ohms with ease. This means it (and our MP-3) can drive multiple amplifiers with no worries.

Looks like the BP17 output impedance is between 340 and 420 Ohms as measure here:

 

@atmasphere  right you are. I'm not sure what was going through my brain yesterday. My apologies.

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I guess the OP isn't looking for the best sound quality, only looking for resale value.

VAC’s customer service is renown for being awful — unforgivable at their price points IMHO and I’d never give them my business when there are so many other excellent brands out there that actually support their customers— VAC, ARC, Atmasphere, CJ, etc.

@soix Interesting you decry VAC customer service and then recommend them.  I have owned 5 different VAC instruments over many years and always received excellent customer service even though they were not purchased new.  I’m not sure about your personal experience or if you are just quoted something your read, but I find it completely foreign to my many years of experience with the brand.

@drrsutliff Ugh.  You’re correct.  My total bad.  I meant VTL, not VAC.  I’m a douche. 

@reg19  I want to point out one more thing about the Backert: the name Rhythm is not arbitrary. It is indeed descriptive.

Concert fidelity is the best pre amp ever my second is audible illusions which is a American brand

This pre amp shines in my system . . . very different approach. Hashimoto MC-10

The HM-3 is a simply amazing step-up transformer for MC cartridges.  We are not quite sure if it's appropriate to mention the HM-3 on this Web site because this step-up transformer can be a treasure not only for tube amps, but also for any audio systems that equips with a MM phono stage.  The basic idea of the MC transformers is to amplify the MC cartridge output signal to the acceptable voltage level for MM phono equalizers through a transformer - without an active amplifier.  With the HM-3, the sound image becomes very wide and deep with three dimensional representation.  The low sound is very tight and the high frequency is crisp clear.  In essence, the vinyl sound through the HM-3 is the closest to the real live music.