Half speed masters. Are they worth the extra scratch?
I just purchased a Dire Straits Brothers in Arms half speed master. I'm using a Pioneer PL530 TT. Can this album be played successfully on my TT? I put it on 45 rpm but there is no way to tell if it is spinning at the right speed. The speed control is working but not keeping a steady reading like when I play a normal 33 record. It sounds good but I'm wondering if they should be played on a different table. Also is it worth it to pay extra money for these? I payed 50$ for this album. Thanks for any information.
The half speed mastered vinyl has no correlation with the spinning speed of your turntable as long as it is being played at its suggested speed. So relax and enjoy!
I guess what I'm asking is I only have 2 settings 33 1/3 and 45. I have a strobe light to tell me if the table is turning to fast or slow. I don't have setting to run half of 33 1/3. When I run it on 45rpm it sounds normal but my strobe won't tell me if it is turning to fast or slow. Is 45 rpm oh these albums need to be played? Thanks
If I play at normal speed of 33 1/3 it doesn't sound right. To slow. So I have to put it on 45 to get close to normal sound. Everything I read says play back should be at 331/3 but speed is not right.
Half speed mastered does not mean you play it at half speed the double Lp's are usually meant to be played at 45 rpm while single Lp's are usually played at 33 1/3 the album should specify the correct speed and your ears will verify this. I've found that most 45 Lp's do sound better than 33 1/3.
You generally have to set 45 with a different line of dots on the platter than you do with 33. At least on the older ones I had. That may be the problem you are having if you are trying to get the 33 line on platter to stabilize at 45rpm
That was funny MC, but... In general half speed masters do sound better, but I only have 33 rpm versions, no 45's. One 1/2 speed of Blondie Parallel Lines sounds worse the original Chrysalis version. MC would tell you to buy a $500 selected "white hot stamper" from Better Records. Not all of us can afford that unfortunately.
It's a 2 disc set done at Abbey Road with letter of certification. I will try the paper disc. I have it on 45 but the strobe I guess is only correct playing a 45. Maybe it's timeing is off a little for 45 rpm as it still moves a little at maximum set point. Spot on for 33/1/3. What cart is best for these records?
Perhaps there is a problem with the turntable. If that is the case, I wouldn’t buy expensive records to play on it. A newer turntable may be a better bet in the long run.
No, the TT has been checked out by the tech. He says it's in perfect condition. I just notice when set at 45rpm the strobe moves slightly. Does not hold steady like when on 33.
What exactly is half-speed mastering? It’s a vinyl cutting process whereby the disc-cutting lathe for an LP is run at half the speed – so for an album that would be 16 and two thirds, which is half of 33 and a third – and the master source is run at half the speed as well.
The Master LP must have been a 78..???
Use a different set of strobe lines, OP your using the wrong set. There is a set for every speed your TT supports.. above or below the original strobe line you were using..., your actually adjusting to 60hz at a given speed, 16,33,45,78.. Just move the strobe a bit both ways, lesser and lesser. It may take 1/2 an hour, BUT you’re not recording that is what all that is about.. Your listening. WOW is really kind of a thing of the past... Rumble on the other hand.. Is alive and well..
There is a reason for a strobe. Not for listening though. BUT we’re all thought that’s what it’s for...NOPE recording, making your own new reel to reel or even cassettes.. LOL A thrust at save the LPs from ware an tear and to be able do your OWN mix....
The fundamental concept behind half speed mastering is bandwidth. Normally with most things the faster the better. 15ips is better than 7.5ips, 30 ips is better than 15. 45 is better than 33. 78 is better than 45.
Why? Because the information can only be laid down so fast, and so the faster the medium the greater the information density per unit time. It is spread out over a greater amount of medium (tape or vinyl) but the same amount of time.
Sorry if that is too technical. What happens with cutting is the same only different. Instead of going faster you go slower. The cutter head only has so much power to cut the dynamic swings into the vinyl. The slower you go the more time it has, and this has the effect of increasing the cutter head effective power. Very simply, it allows the cutter head to cut much more precisely the input signal.
This is totally a huge advantage. But notice, this is only one small item on a very long chain of events in making a really good sounding record. All things being equal, half speed mastering is better. But all things seldom are equal.
I have on my shelf 4 different copies of Fleetwood Mac Rumours: one original vintage vinyl, one Nautilus half speed mastered "audiophile" pressing, one 45RPM audiophile reissue, and one White Hot Stamper.
The worst one of them all is the Nautilus half speed mastered "audiophile"! Not even close. Why? Not because half speed mastered! It was "digitally remastered".
The 45 sounds great, but the White Hot Stamper sounds so much better than the 45 you can hardly believe it. Even though if you had both of them right here in your hands, my original vintage copy and the White Hot Stamper, you could not for your life tell them apart. They are absolutely identical. Yes hot wax people, even the hot wax. So forget that one.
The point is not to promote Better-records.com, but to get the point across that many, many different factors go into producing a terrific sounding pressing. No one can say buy the half speed mastered it will be better. No one can say buy the vintage, or the 45, or whatever other "audiophile reissue" fantasy story they want to pull over on you.
(If you want to be assured of the absolute highest sound quality, then you do want the White Hot Stamper. That much we definitely can say for sure.)
The one you have, BIA45, is one fantastic sounding LP. IF and ONLY IF you get one that is! Because, depending on the pressing run it can also be one of the WORST! One copy I got had dips and skips and freaking pieces of paper melted right into the vinyl. The next copy played almost perfectly.
Suffice to say vinyl is a fickle filly. As Sting would say, "That’s my baby, she can be all four seasons in one day!"
The first pix I saw of the PL530 only showed 1 line of squares on the platter, so I thought that's how they were made. Subsequent pix show 4 lines of squares. You should be able to get one of them to be stationary at 45 rpm. Look at MC's system, he's probably a 1%er in the audio world. Very good share MC, knowledge is good.
I can't speak about half speed recordings but I can offer some advice on your TT. I also have a Pioneer PL-530 which I bought new many years ago. Due to the age of these tables it may have been very long, if ever, the speed pots were cleaned or inspected. Whether playing on 33 or 45 speed the movement of the dots from the strobe should remain still while playing a record. The speed may change ever so slightly when the stylus drops on the record surface. A minor adjustment in speed can compensate for that. Not saying that the tech that analyzed your table is incompetent but I have address speed fluctuations on this table before. If not needing replacement, the speed pot(s) may just need cleaning. Deoxit will do the job but removal of the bottom is required to do it correctly. Good luck.
Funny this would be brought up. Over the weekend my pals and I compared the Mofi Original Master Copy vinyl vs the half speed remaster vinyl vs the Mofi SACD vs the Qobuz version of Brothers in Arms. Our group decided the Mofi vinyl was slightly better than the half speed remaster but both the Mofi vinyl and half speed remaster are significantly better than the other options.
Half-Speed and other Audiophile grade vinyl is worth it if the original record was a well engineered recording. I have some rock and jazz; like Steely Dan's "Aja" or John Klemmer's "Touch" on half-speed master vinyl that will make you weep at how much better it makes an already outstanding record sound.
I also have a few master versions that just reveal a poorly recorded original session. Its all about the source, but unfortunately you can only discern the difference between good and just OK by trying it out. There may be master reviews on Discogs or some other vinyl source (any body know a good reference source for master recording reviews? Not just some deletant comments, like my opinion).
In short, generally I find if the original version was great to listen to; then the half-speed or master recording will be an even better version and worth the premium.
Ok just looked up better-records.com. Thanks to maestro MC.
Could not agree with them more; too many variables with vinyl and the only way to tell if a recording is superior is to play it. But, ouch those prices; although it does make sense if you account for the many hours they must spend finding and selecting recordings.
Half speed mastering has nothing to do with what speed you play it back at. It’s simply cut at a slower speed and the music is cut at half the speed, so when you play it back it’s back to normal. It just halves frequencies as they’re cut into lacquers which is meant to produce more robust dynamics and less feedback. I’ve heard great ones and others where the difference is negligible.
to my ears, half-speed mastering sounds much closer to the master tape, there is just more openness to the sound, a sense of ease contrasted with the subtle hardness/grain/strain of a regular record. i get the same sound from 45 rpm recordings as well. this said, what is the secret that enables direct-to-disc recordings to have this same ease?
Ok just looked up better-records.com. Thanks to maestro MC.
Could not agree with them more; too many variables with vinyl and the only way to tell if a recording is superior is to play it. But, ouch those prices; although it does make sense if you account for the many hours they must spend finding and selecting recordings.
Not only the prices, but also the only reason for buying one is sound quality. They are not dead quiet. They are all used. Sometimes they are quite noisy. But, the sound! This is where we separate the men from the boys. The wanna-bees will listen and say there is hardly any difference. This tells me far more about their system and/or their listening ability than anything. Because I have more than a dozen of these now and every single one is head and shoulders better than anything else I have, vintage or reissue or otherwise. Only rare exceptions like Patricia Barber 1Step, while it is dead quiet and an amazing recording still it is not quite the pressing level of a White Hot Stamper.
This is where it is so important to be able to understand and keep separate all the different aspects and areas that contribute to, or detract from, a great pressing. There is the recording, as in what is on the master tape. Then there is the mastering, which can be done different ways from the same original master tape. Then there is the pressing run, which is all the records produced from any given stamper. (And even this is sidestepping some steps- many stampers can be made.) Finally there is the pressing, the individual LP you hold in your hand. Each and every one of these is unique and individual. This is why if you understand all this it almost makes no sense even to ask questions like is the 45, or the half-speed mastered, or whatever worth it. You will learn the answer one way only, and that is to be listening when the needle drops.
I have purchased a number of half-speed mastered albums over the years, I’m guessing a dozen or 20. Most 33 1/3 rpm versions... most were noticeably better fidelity and to me worth it. But it has mostly to do with your values... I find now with streaming being so comperable to my vinyl that I probably will not buy any more new.
In the early days of half-speed mastering, companies like Mofi obtained copies of the original master tapes. Over time these master tapes deteriorate with print through and delamination problems, and so now many half-speed 180 gram records are produced from digital copies made by the record companies to protect their analogue archives. In many cases I have found the original pressings superior to the newer "versions" - buyers need to purchase from reputable sources - beware !! Try to seek out Nimbus pressings for Hi-Fi Today magazine (on eBay), these are genuine half-speed masters using the original master tapes and virgin vinyl. Good hunting !!! I bought all but two of the originals when they were first offered to readers, so I am on the lookout to complete my set.
Great thread. MillerCarbon, great explanation of how this works. It is, as you say, contrary to the notion that you generally want tape speed to roll fast--i.e. think VCRs or reel-to-reel--faster taping speed the better. Here, we're dealing with something different. This makes great sense the way you explained it.
Thanks to everyone for the input. I can definitely tell the difference between the master, original and streaming. Special thanks to @oldhvymc for explaining the purpose of the strobe. I will invest in a few albums that I like to listenin to their intirity. Maybe a better cart.
"Half-Speed and other Audiophile grade vinyl is worth it if the original record was a well engineered recording."
I have half-speed mastered Exile On The Main Street by the Rolling Stones. Well, it could be worse. Just not by much. Confirming the above quote.
As far as Better Records go, there has been a recent thread with multiple customers sharing their experiences. Bigger sample brings more objective results. One of them is that records do come packaged impressively well.
If you have already noticed they only half speed the best recordings in the industry so you have to judge them versus the original records but they will all sound good in all versions because the recordings are usually phenomenal to begin with.
Was looking at mark knopfler's local hero half speed Master on Amazon, $38. Already have 2 original copies. For the price, I might take a chance on it. I would have to agree, better records is great! The packaging top notch. I believe I now have at least 20 records from them by now....
I've got a half speed master of The Police ’Ghost In The Machine’. The drum intro for ’Spirits In The Material Wild’ will knock your socks off. You hear the air and decay on the drums. Impact and attack is startling to say the least...the toms sound like they were in the room.
I think having a dialed in Technics 1200G with a nice microline stylus certainly helps. But yeah, well worth the little hit in cost.
I've mastered a handful of releases at half speed, have one to do in 2 weeks time for a composer from the Bavarian State Opera who's completed a modern chamber music / electronic hybrid 2xLP. I find that works with vast dynamics suit half speed, as well as very quiet works where surface noise is a real threat, not to mention pre-delay. And then there is DMM. There was a moment after the Apollo Pressing plant burned down where it was assumed there'd be an uptick in DMM, but thankfully none of my business was with Apollo so I got out unscathed. However, there are still DMM diehards, if you can find the machinery. I recently saw this article (below) and this studio offers DMM dubplates for 700eu! Not to say I don't have $1000+ records and loads of one-off dublplates, but nothing this extreme and purist! Might have to try it someday. https://www.psaudio.com/copper/article/copper-listens-to-copper-stockfisch-records-dmm-dubplate-vol-...
Tom Port got after me about some of the misinformation above. No, not mine. Others. He has a point. But the parts I explained are perfectly clear, and true.
Rather than try and set the record straight let me just say not everything claimed to be from the original master, or half speed mastered, or whatever, actually is as claimed.
For example, an "Original Master Recording" from MoFi so hilariously obviously NOT from the original master- Al Stewart Year of the Cat - was so bad it did not even have the piano in the beginning of On the Border, at all. By "at all" I mean "at all". Not buried deep down in the mix. Not muffled hard to make out. "AT ALL!"
This particular pressing was so bad I sent it to Tom just to play, to show anyone just how truly awful a reissue can be. I have a very normal beat up and played a lot average vintage copy that is light years better than this MoFi. Tom sold me a White Hot Stamper and you better believe it is light years better than my average vintage copy.
There are so many steps in the chain, so many opportunities for dreck to creep in, it is a miracle there are any good records out there at all. In any format. With LP, add to that the challenge of squishing plastic into grooves the size of a organic molecule. No wonder the only way to know for sure is to drop the needle and listen.
That is what Tom Port does every day. If you really care about sound quality that is what you will do too. Or pay Tom to do it for you. That you can rely on. Labels that say half speed mastered, audiophile, original master, etc, those you cannot rely on. At all.
MoFi has it’s detractors (obviously), and the company is to blame for their spotty record (ouch ;-) . However, one needs to know that not all Mobile Fidelity LP’s are created equally. You need to know about the history of the company, who was doing the mastering, plating, and pressing at the time a reissue was done. The sound characteristics can be broken down into two separate phases: the current Music Direct-owned releases, and those of the former ownership.
The MoFi Beatles LP’s, for example, are not as good as original UK LP’s. I had a complete set of both UK Parlophone (stereo) and MoFi pressings (just ’cause I could), but when the mono boxset was released I sold all my MoFi’s, the proceeds of which many times over paid for the box.
On the other hand, most "current" MoFi’s are really, really good. Whereas Stan Ricker was doing the mastering at MoFi in the 70’s and 80’s (and is responsible for the bass-heavy sound of the Beatles LP’s---he was a bass player ;-) , MoFi’s current team is one of the very best in the world.
Then there is Analogue Productions. In my opinion they are making the best LP’s the world has ever seen, uh, heard. Chad Kassem takes making records VERY seriously, and his products show it. If you want proof of that, at 12:00 noon CST tomorrow (Saturday, 5-8) on the YouTube channel "45 RPM Audiophile", there is going to be a live stream panel discussion about making records. The participants will be Chad, Classic Records owner Mike Hobson, mastering engineer Bernie Grundman, the production manager at QRP (Kassem’s LP manufacturing facility in Salina, KS), Michael Fremer, and Mr. 45 RPM Audiophile, Michael in Germany.
As to half-speed mastering, that was a fad in the waning days of the original LP reign. I recently read a mastering engineer explain that while running the tapes at half speed DOES provide an improvement in high frequencies, it comes at the cost of worse low frequency sound. None of the current audiophile reissue companies proudly proclaim their LP’s are half-speed mastered. ’Cause they’re not.
I can't say I notice a difference when comparing other audiophile pressings. Half-speed mastered records are usually doing all the right things in the manufacturing process outside of the mastering, so they do tend to sound good, just not sure it's the mastering process that makes it so.
Miller Carbon: "I have on my shelf 4 different copies of Fleetwood Mac Rumours: one original vintage vinyl, one Nautilus half speed mastered 'audiophile' pressing, one 45RPM audiophile reissue, and one White Hot Stamper."
Similarly, I have multiple versions of FM's earlier, better in all ways, 1975 breakthrough eponymous album ("The White Album"), including a Mobile Fidelity half-speed mastered "Original Master Recording" produced under license from Warner. For reasons unknown to me, this gem -- 7x Platinum and twice voted among the top 200 in RS's "500 GOAT" albums -- is seemingly forgotten. I once heard an hour-long radio special allegedly devoted to FM's career which left it entirely unmentioned, like a biography of Franklin Roosevelt failing to mention his dozen years as US President.
Sadly, for want of a worthy vinyl reproduction system, I can't now compare the half-speed, the Japanese virgin vinyl, etc. with the Reprise original. But until then, I must wonder whether MC or anyone else in the audiophile universe remembers, possesses, or even sometimes PLAYS this classic once heard from every college dorm room window in America?
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