Speaker interactions aside, what solid state amp brands/designers tend to have a fuller sound these days? Not necessarily warm or tubey per se, but fleshed out in the upper bass and harmonically complete in the midrange, as opposed to lean. E.g. an Australian ME Sound amp I have from a while back has this quality, without sounding overtly warm.
Obvious candidates: Pass, Luxman. What else?
Cost no object, feel free to throw out one-liners. Think of it as a poll. (Please don't answer tubes though, thanks. :D )
greetings and let me say how sorry i am about the events you had to deal with. I think losing my audio system would be the worst thing second only to losing my dogs. How did your physical music collection fair though all this? Replacing one's cd or record collection would be even worse as there is so much work to acquiring it again. Glad you will be able to replace the gear. good luck to you
I second your nomination of PS Audio BHK amp, I owned the BHK 250 stereo version until August 27th when Hurricane Harvey flooded my house with 3.5 feet of salt water. Other victims of the flood were my PS Audio P10 Power regenerator, PS Audio Directstream DAC, and PS Audio BHK preamp, along with Wilson Audio Sophia 2 loudspeakers. I will definitely be replacing the PS Audio equipment as soon as the house restoration is complete.
As most people know, the BHK stands for Bascom H. King, whose previous designs were for Infinity, Marantz, Conrad Johnson, Counterpoint, Constellation Audio and Audeze. Bascom King got the full support of Paul McGowen in designing the amp with only one strict requirement: "It must be among the five best amps in the world"! So, no pressure.
We should mention that BHK cheated on the design however, if this thread is to nominate the best pure SS amp ever. He overcame Paul’s prejudice against vacuum tubes and designed a tube-based front end. In Bascom’s opinion (along with that of his friend Arnie Nudell, founder of Infinity and Genesis) a tube-based input stage is absolutely necessary for the best sound in an SS amp.
The budget for amp should be mentioned. The Late great design work of Jim Borgiano are these 2 amps. The mono block Ampzilla, and Son Of Ampzilla stereo amplifier. Having a Huge 2,000va transformer in each chassis is class leading And fully regulated ,and Bipolar output stages. Quietly these have Excellent reviews, and are highly engaging. I am using the Pure Audio Project Loudspeakers with Voxativ full range drivers .normally I would use a Vacuum tube amp with these. But being so detailed and resolved with my Custom Radu Tarts DHT single ended Vacuum tube preamp A highly musical combination. In best of TAS 2017 awards And many other accolades in other reviews.
goodness i am surprised that no one has yet listed one of the greatest SS amps on the market, and it is a real bang for the buck. that amp is the PS Audio BHK amp. i have owned many amps over the years and this is the best ever. Plus they build and service in Boulder.
I prefer Class A amps - own Belles and Classe that operate in true Class A and sound excellent. Also use a Jeff Rowland that has a heavy duty power supply and sounds very nice.
I know this is for Solid state amps, but the new Carver Tube amps do quite well at displaying the characteristics the OP is looking for without sounding “tubey”. I run a pair of them with a Pass Labs X1 to great effect and have no desire to change them any time soon.
The amplifiers are designed to be dedicated mono blocks and most use them as such, there is just the convenience that you can run one as a stereo amplifier. The idea was way back when we started making Amplifiers (1998) that the customer could start with one amp then later get a second one. The offerings back then were the Whitney, Denali and Everest with the Companion K2 preamplifier. These could be driven in "bridged" mode as you call it - where the inverting amplifier (with positive input grounded) is driven by the negative side of the non inverting amplifier. However sound quality improved when driven balanced with a fully balanced preamplifier like the K2.
The newer series of amplifiers, (which started with the Mini Olympia, ca 2004) is based upon our ALL-FET circuit which needs both nodes driven when using as a mono block - i.e the inverting amplifiers positive input needs signal. So a balanced input signal is required. We only make fully balanced preamplifiers, even in the Liberty Lineup.
The power output quadruple when using them as mono blocks, obviously the output impedance will be twice that of a single channel but since we don't use any source resistors because of tightly matched output devices, the output impedance is vanishingly low.
Most all our customers use our amplifiers a dedicated mono blocks, everything improves, coherence, speed, dynamics both micro and macro.
The new Cary SA-200.2 solid state amp has been good for me so far. However, I’m cheating a little by using a Cary SLP-98 tube preamp in front of it. :) Full, huge, sound. The detail/softness can be tuned with interconnects too. Cary Audio and another AudioGon’er recommend this hybrid pre/amp combo. Really glad I tried it.
I often compare the SA-200.2 to a Cary V12R EL34 tube amp in Triode/Ultralinear modes. While the tube is nice and lush, sometimes the smooth and deliberate dynamics of the SA-200.2 solid state amp is fun too.
I prefer the sound of MOSFET output stages - to my ears Bipolar always produce a "lisp" "s" kind of sound.
I know both design and parts selection are important and I have heard the "lisp" type sound with a couple of amps, including Cary's newer 500.1 SS amps (that I simply couldn't live with) but I never had that problem with their older 500MB SS amps that I found to be quite musical and liked much better. The older 500MBs used
Sanken 50 ampere, high current, wide bandwidth bipolar output devices. My Class A Claytons, which use Motorola bipolar transistors do not have any signs of "lisp" or haze or any other artifact but I am sure the Class A operation bias and large power supply contribute to the sound.
I prefer the conveniences of having monoblocks and I am curious about your choice of really large stereo amplifiers vs. dedicated monoblocks, and whether the sound is affected (or not) by bridging a pair of your stereo amps (such as the mini-Olympia) as a monoblock implementation. Do the amps provide fundamentally the same sound quality whether they are operated as a single stereo amp or a bridged mono pair? Are there differences in addition to power output, such as input or output impedance, frequency or distortion characteristics, or other differences between the amps run in stereo or mono?
Taww, I owned Neodio top of the line integrated and if you get a chance to get your hands on one go for it. His two cdp’s are the most musical available.
Pass use Hexfet in the output stages, namely the IRF240/9240 (TO247) these are more of an industrial transistor then one designed specifically for Audio. If one pairs many of them in parallel in an output stage it becomes necessary to use source resistors to make them share current properly, if not one device will hog all the current and self destruct.
These types of HexFet need a lot of Bias current to sound good.
Toshiba and Hitachi/Renseas make some Mosfet specifically designed for Audio, in our earlier series of Amplifiers I used the Toshiba J200/K1529 in the current series of amplifiers I use the modern day equivalent of the J50/K135 lateral MosFets made by Exicon 10N20/10P20 (TO3) these are made specifically for Audio - Renesas makes the same type MOSFET J162/K1058 (TO3P)
These have a softer sound than the Industrial type Mosfet mentioned above, you don’t have to run quite as much bias current to make them sing, and if you match them close there no need for Source Resistors to make the share current.
I prefer the sound of MOSFET output stages - to my ears Bipolar always produce a "lisp" "s" kind of sound.
As with anything its in the execution of the design - Pass makes excellent amplifiers with the HexFet’s
taww, I believe Pass uses MOSFETs in his output stages. The two most recent MOSFET amps I have owned were Lamm's M1.2 Reference monos and the BAT VK500. The Lamm amps were the best of those two but still sounded a bit soft/rounded in comparison to the three other amps I owned at the time (2 bi-polar amps and a set of NCore monos). This may have been due to the hybrid design with a 6922 tube or the lower power of 110 wpc compared to the other amps that all provided at least 300 wpc. You are correct, I should hear some of the newer MOSFET designs for comparison.
I would also like to hear the Gamut M250i (250 wpc) mono amps that use only a single NPN high powered MOSFET per phase (i.e., two per channel). I am curious whether a single output device would improve clarity and naturalness over having banks of transistors that will never be exactly matched with each other. However, I am sure there are other trade-offs (pluses and minuses) as with any design, which is why we need to hear the gear rather than purchase based on topology or reviews by others.
@pbnaudio - Hi Peter - I remember Marty DeWulf, whom I wrote for a number of years, was a big fan of your designs. They look amazing... if only you had something a little smaller, or better yet, my apartment were bigger. :-D
@mitch2 I think MOSFET "mist" or softness is a thing of the past in a proper design. I've heard a number of more recent designs that have none of that and are indistinguishable from a good bipolar amp in speed and clarity. April Music Ai500 when properly biased (they had some QC issues) was one example, a few others I've heard but can't recall off the top of my head.
@bobheinatz I just contacted Stéphane Even @ Neodio to see if he is seeking a US review. Really intrigued by his designs.
You may want to consider a Modwright KWA 150SE, it’s a versital well designed and very engaging amp. Modwright products seem to fly under the radar, but are able to provide excellent sonics.
Hello Peter, unfortunately I have never had a chance to hear your amplifiers - they look great. I am curious about your design of big stereo amps instead of monoblocks, and also about the "bridged" implementation of your stereo amps - are these true differential amplifiers? Is there any effect on the input or output impedance of the amps when running them bridged? Also curious about your use of MOSFET compared to bi-polar output devices. My experience has been that MOSFET outputs sound softer while bi-polar outputs have provided better dynamics in the amps I have heard, but I am sure these observations have been influenced by more than the output devices alone.
My ATC's could sound overly analytical with the wrong amp, but with an Accuphase E-470 driving them the sound is full, rich, and and warm.... but never lacking in detail. I dream of moving up in the Accuphase line!
Sorry, I should clarify - I'd like to focus on currently-active brands/models. I'm interested specifically in things I could potentially review on my blog (http://taww.co). So stuff that is commercially available and supported.
(That said, used/rebuilt stuff is great and as a side project I'm always fascinated by modification potential. My Bryston B60 and Ayre AX-7e have been tuned up quite a bit with simple mods. I don't intend to recommend these mods broadly, it is simply my own pursuit of a truer reference sound.)
@blindjim agreed that tube pre + SS amp can be the perfect combo, and I'm not opposed to the idea. I actually own a pretty decent tube linestage for that purpose. But I'm looking specifically for amps that don't require the tube front-end to flesh out their sound. Doesn't mean they can't sound even better with a tube pre though - in fact I think the best tube pre's with the best SS amps can be the best of both worlds.
@OP, SMcAudio upgrades all the old McCormack stuff. Actually Conrad Johnson still makes the McCormack. One of the least expensive ways to get a McCormack is to find a non working model and send it to SMc. They essentially remove everything and put in a new circuit board and whatever upgrades you want in your price range. B
Are you planning on going all sS? Or a tube pre with SS power?
BAT SS does not have a brittle bone in its chunky little body. The bAT SS amps sound quite different than their hollow state offerings to be sure mated with their tube preamps are a true winning combination; PLINIUS; YPSILON if you can handle one tube per ch; GRYPHON is reported to be quite full across the bandwidth with its presentation; AYRE is liked by a fair number of folks; Dartziel has a rep for solid full sounding amps; Bermester 909 - 600 wpc.
A previous note on the speakers being added onto they amp du jours, should not be taken lightly, as they can further or lessen a fuller sounding arrangement. Take care there.
I’d be inclined to put ypsilon and Dart Zeel atop my list, were money no object. Good luck.
Ah yes, Edge. I evaluated the Edge G6 for a good long period a while back, before Tom Maker sold the company and split off. It was the best SS amp I had heard up to that point (and still great by today’s standards, I bet). @marqmike I’d agree it gets "somewhat close" in the fullness criterion, definitely a complete sound but a bit cooler than the likes of Pass. I’ve been itching to try the Maker G9.
I think Belles gets somewhat there. I think older Jeff Rowland definitely set the standard. Newer Rowland combines that with great retrieval of low level detail. Plinius gets there, Edge somewhat close. JMO
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