I think you’re on the right track with the Pulsars, but I don’t even think you necessarily need the Graphene version and some actually prefer the original unlike the Perspectives where the Graphene is a clear improvement. Plus you can get the original Pulsars for around $4k if you’re patient. That’s what I’d do.
Given the music you listen to you might also consider the ATC SCM20 as ATC really excels at dynamics that can be a big plus for rock music, plus they’re just great speakers. This dealer offers a 10% discount and a return policy.
https://soundapproach.com/atc-scm20psl-classic-series-9-3-way-passive-speakers-pair.html
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The Joseph Audio suggestion is excellent. You might want to consider a used pair of TAD LABS ME-1 used.
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The ATC SCM20 may have too tight of a sweet spot to satisfy most users.
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that is a dramatic upgrade sound wise
I have Fritz Rev 7 SEs and this is the single issue that has prevented me from “upgrading” speakers. I have heard the Pulsar Graphenes and they are great but I wouldn’t say they are a dramatic upgrade. I listened to some Fyne 501SPs as well that were outstanding as well but again not a dramatic upgrade imho. I would go listen to whatever you’re considering before pulling the trigger on anything. You might be surprised at how well your current speakers hold up against them.
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Admitted Fritz fan here. I think, with the music you prefer, you risk having a too “in your face” presentation with many other speakers. Fritz designs his speakers with a more musical and polite (in a positive way) presentation that sounds very non-fatiguing, which IMO works well with aggressive music. Have you experimented with a second sub, perhaps crossed over a bit higher? That would give significantly more bass energy and take some burden off the Fritz, allowing them to play louder and cleaner without losing the qualities you like. Just my opinion 💡
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I don’t have experience with the Fritz, but I think the KEF Reference One’s are worth consideration. I had them and they will deliver on Zep and Floyd with amazing clarity and soundstage at volume, with plenty of bass. While I have not heard them, the Joseph’s are a great choice too, probably a toss up and would come down to personal preference.
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NO.... is the simple answer.
The full answer is it’s a little complex. Given the prices of Fritz, with their superior imaging and glass smooth tonal capabilities I’d say there’s nothing at all wrong with them but it’s not unheard of for audiophiles to get bored with anything so I might suggest that rather than look for "better" you look for "different" and find something affordable and fun sounding you might want to swap in from time to time. Compared to other speakers Fritz may seem too laid back, so perhaps swapping in something with a different balance may be fun and also help you appreciate Fritz in the long term.
Alternatively ... if it was me and I was starting from your system I’d consider a nice small tube integrated as something to swap in from time to time.
Also, consider your room. Fritz speakers do best with a moderately well treated room which controls the treble and lets the mid-bass come out.
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I have no experience with KEF recently but the Reference 1 Meta are among the hardest speakers to driver right now, a strong counter point to Fritz which are among the easiest. Given the OP's amp this may not matter.
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I would like to thank the following for your help and expertise that I don't have, or would like to. SOIX< THRIFTYAUDIO<JASTRALFU AND CHAYRO. All had a lot of great advice. Don't really understand the sweet spot ref: on the ATC's? I may adjust the crossover a bit as suggested, the second sub in this room would be great, just don't have the room. Like I said,will never sell the FRITZ, they are that good, at least in my situation with rock and roll. I am not in a great hurry, just getting older as I speak, just very curious! Also wondering if a Joseph audio perspective (USED) would be a giant step up, overkill, too much for the smaller room, or maybe Nirvana??????? Thank again Robert
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eric_squires/zlone thanks also. Everyone has the voice of reason, but me. The phrase, NOT BETTER, BUT DIFFERENT strikes a logical cord! My current ATI amp has the current and power to drive most anything. ATC has always intrigued me, but, the Joseph audio has also. TAD does also, but, my wallet says differently. Used should open some doors,maybe. I'll keep all posted. Robert
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After thinking about it and although I do think the Pulsars will provide some improvements maybe most notably in the bass and possibly in imaging and 3D soundstage they probably are more alike to your speakers than different overall. So if you’re looking for something really good but different I’d look to ATC especially given the music you listen to. Neither the Fritz nor JA speakers can match the power and dynamics of the ATC speakers especially in the all-important midrange, and it really shines on rock although other genres benefit too . Here are some used FYI, but the dealer I linked previously offers returns and a 10% discount so may be a good way to demo and hear what I’m talking about. Since you have a sub the SCM19s could well be fine and quite a bit cheaper than the SCM20s and are probably the sweet spot in the range. Read the reviews that are pretty much all glowing, and they’re also used as reference speakers by several reviewers that says something as well. Anyway…
https://www.ebay.com/itm/146445085555
https://tmraudio.com/fresh-arrivals/atc-scm19-v2-bookshelf-speakers-cherry-pair-open-box/
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What I found listening to other speakers is exactly what @erik_squires suggests, different but definitely not better. And not different enough to justify the price, at least to me. I can’t stress enough to go listen first if you can. I went looking for a different sound and bought some Falcon Q7 gold badges. They are a nice change but I wouldn’t recommend them for the music you’re talking about. They are great for vocals and good for some jazz. I only mention them wrt finding a different presentation.
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@robshaw We showed with the Fritz Carbon 7s last year at AXPONA. I found them quite transparent and neutral. We ran them with a sub crossed at about 55Hz. I run Carbon 6s in my bedroom system, using an amp of only 5 Watts/channel. It will be a hard sale to convince me to replace them.
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I loved the Pulsar suggestion, excellent sonics. But for a sonic change, perhaps Harbeth? Seems like fun to swap between both speakers
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OP, you may be questing for the speaker version of a new love, but I will tell you this about these speakers: they got even better when I put them and their stands on a townshend podium. More coherent imaging, tighter bass, a bit more detail, micro-dynamics, and texture information.
It won’t cure your hankering for new experiences but it did something significant for the speakers’ performance.
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OP:
I'm a big fan of the Rogue Cronus Magnum or CJ integrateds. Considering what you are using now, I think they'd be super interesting for you, especially given the tube-friendly nature of Fritz speakers.
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Really suggest - think more about what it is you like and what else you are looking for in an upgrade. Also think about midrange driver material. I strongly prefer paper and possibly carbon fiber cones. I have heard plenty of good/pricey speakers that image well, 'disappear' better, and may technically be more 'clear' or measure better. But I don't think I could BUY a speaker with a metal cone driver like the Joseph Audio pulsar. Just me. Highly subjective. If you are looking for a 'disappearing act' - the Pulsars are a possibility or even something like an Evolution Acoustics Mini may be a consideration. However, they won't do rock and roll with a punch your gut and blow your hair back dynamics and mid-bass. And although the ATC 19 may be somewhat better, it's bass is very lean and tends to leave some unsatisfied. Figure out your #1 and #2 priorities, and eliminate mid-range material(s) that you could not live with long term. Maybe borrow a mid-high power tube amp short term(?) - Good luck.
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Just doing some soul searching tonight. I have to thank everyone, some excellent points, some profound! I have been tempted at times with a tube integrated, but, the tubes just scare me, SS has been good to me. In my main system, my amp which I will never sell is a Pass X-250.8 and it drives a pair of Specialty Tekton Encores upgraded.
One post that really intrigues me is the suggestion of ATC 19 or 20scm. I called Sound Approach on SOIX suggestion (coincidentally same place I bought my ATI amp) their 10% savings is almost over, as tariffs will raise it 10% on Monday. Their ATC 20 new would be 5849, regular price and 10% more Monday. The ATC 19 is something that intrigues me w/o a huge outlay, also maybe finding a used pulsar, non graphene. All posts have been great, Thank you Audiogon too.
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I may have a take of some interest. I had a set of ATC SCM20-2a, active stand monitors, very expensive in its day. It had amazing SLAM and dynamics, good width and depth, along with a tweeter that shot an icepick into my brain, to the point of taping multiple layers of toilet paper onto the grill in front of the tweets to tame them. This was BEFORE ATC started making its own in-house tweeter, which is much nicer. (The SCM 9s I heard a few years ago were quite satisfying). Anyway, when my FRITZ REV 7s arrived I set ’em upon the stands and turned them on. The ATC went on sale the next day.
I love those REV 7s. The best? Surely not, but all-around the best I’ve had. It just ticks all the right boxes for me. Good luck on your quest and tell us where you land
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After espousing on my Current FRITZ Carbons, and reading@ rammerjammers post: One word comes to mind that YOU ALL HAVE MENTIONED! Directly or in directly!
QUANDARY!
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@robshaw
Rob, we have a nice sized audio group here in Nashville area. As we try and move from one person's home to the next each month, we get to hear a huge variety of gear. Today (Saturday) is another gtg where this owner has an analog setup and B&W floorstanders. Last month it was an all-Audio Note setup.
You are welcome to join in and get on the mailing list.
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Interesting thread. I was on a similar path not too long ago. I have had a pair of Merlin TSMs for several years. I started looking around for something better, or maybe just different. I actually quite like the speakers, but got the itch. The vast majority of the comments/suggestions I got on this and another forum was to keep the Merlins and upgrade some other piece of the pie. The only speakers that seemed to get some talk were the Josephs. But, new ones are out of my league and you don't see many used for sale, if at all. So, I consulted with Rich B at Signature Sound. I am presently driving my Merlins with a Billie integrated tube amp (original version). Rich suggested trying an integrated SS amp...the Belles Aria. Waiting for it to arrive.
In any case, good luck and share your experiences if you make changes.
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I will keep all up to date, Thank you. After listening to all (very welcomed) comments, it is a very sobering, complex, thought process.
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Besides their sound, something else I like about Fritz speakers is that they're designed and built by Fritz himself, and he's more than happy to chat with you at length about anything on the phone or in person. I bought a pair of his speakers and he brought them over to my apartment in San Francisco (he's also in Northern California) and we just hung out and chatted for about 3 hours!
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@larssman Couldn't agree more. Fritz and I have spoken a few time at length. Very nice guy, regular type, for what that's worth. We both are the same age, and grew up during the muscle car era. We talked for hours on that topic alone. We have a great deal in common. Very easy guy to talk with. You appear to have the same qualities. Glad you enjoyed your time with him, not to mention the speakers. Thanks for sharing. I live an hour outside of Nashville area towards Knoxville TN. Robert
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I'm in the erik_squires camp on this one. It is easy for an audio hobbyist to get an urge for change even when they are quite pleased with their current system. Face it, we like to tinker. One way to address that instead of trying to improve on the characteristics you like about your current speakers with a trade-up, try getting a second pair that does well in other areas. If only one system, periodically change out the speakers to enjoy what each does well, and then circle back to the other pair after awhile. Then rinse and repeat.
Or, what I've done is set up a quite different second system in another room. Ohm 1000s with a sub in my main system in a good-sized open room, and then a pair of Spendor 4/5 speakers in a smaller room. Both sound great to me, but with completely different perspectives.
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I have the Fritz Carrera BE and got the urge to upgrade.
I bought a pair of used JA graphene pulsars. While they sounded really good, I traded those in for the JA graphene Prospectives. It took the Prospectives to make the upgrade worthwhile. The Fritz speakers are that good. I have them in my office now and will never sell.
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Certainly interested in what you end up replacing them with..& your comparison between the two. REV7 SE owner & I do enjoy them. A very good all around speaker.
I understand wanting to try something different. Too many good speakers out there. Sometimes it doesn't necessarily need to be better..just different yet still enjoyable.
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To @robshaw have you tried other amplifiers in addition to the ATI 6002 amplifier with your Fritz speakers?
I’ve owned an ATI designed amp with 200wpc for many years, and used with with my home theater and tried it with my audio speakers. For some reason it sounded overly neutral, lacked some body imo, great for movie dialogue, and everything you’d expect for movies. When I tried it with my two-channel audio system I never could seem to be engaged with the sound as compared to my other Class A solid state or mono tube amps, fwiw. Just curious if you’ve tried other amps with your Fritz by chance, fwiw.
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@decooney : You brought up a very interesting point!!!!!!!!! In my main system in a much larger area in a shop/building outside, I have a much more sophisticated/larger system. (much larger area ) in that building I'm running a Pass X250.8 with a efficient pair of upgraded Tekton Encore speakers, with a Bricasti M1 SE dac
As the speakers permit, even at 90db levels or more the Pass is working in Class A mode. Sound is to die for!!!! I'm just wondering? , especially after reading your post. I have their top of the line 6002 amp, which model did you use.? Just wondering , apples to apples???? I think you may have a very valid point, I would rather buy (I think) a better amp than try to carry the 100lb plus Pass from my shop to my home listening room. My luck, my wife and I would drop it.
Funny, because prior to speaker searching, I was looking at used CODA amps their model 8 V1 . I think that is their highest rated class A version or the S 5.5 version which is 50 watts in just class . Thanks so much for the post. Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated. Robert TN
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@decooney I hope this doesn't violate audiogon protocols. Just wondering if I could call or e mail you later when I get home, later this afternoon or evening. I would like to hear more about your amp compared to my 6002 version. Also what amp your using now that offer class A bias, and your opinions. Robert TN If permissible and you prefer I ll give your my info? let me know. Thank you
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To @robshaw you can reach me over on DIYAudio or AK without violating anything here or private email addresses. I'd prefer to share more offline about other amps all using the same slot modules (all made at the same OEM), with one assembly line right beside the next., and with slight tweaks each different branding on amps. Also, you can read up on what I'm referring to. Btw, I live near Coda, Pass, 15 minutes away, and grew up with all of that. I run an older Pass (Threshold / Forte' Audio) variant upgraded by Jon Soderberg with the older Toshiba Mosfets, in pure Class A 50/80 watts. It sounds glorious golden sound compared to my super clean HT amps btw :) You probably already know this from your X250.8, i suspect. See you on the other forums.
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@decooney I tried to register at that website, in order to discuss some amp topics and it stated the site was not safe, Https wise. I'm not to good at computer stuff. All i want to do is NOT cheat anyone out of something, just would like to discuss things audio wise, and maybe learn things as a result, before purchasing. An educated consumer?? I'll do what I can, thanks for your post. Robert TN
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@decooney Just read an email earlier from decooney. He stated that he had a similar ATI Amp, and that it worked well with his TV surround system, however, not so well with his 2 channel system. That he was using or had used a class A amp with his system, that very much outclassed his ATI amp. I guess I'm just wondering now and had before, is the ATI just a very good amp for surround sound and not so much for 2 channel mudic? I know for a fact when I ordered it a few years ago, that the same housing can house up to 7 channels. Had I knew then what I know now, I would most likely not have purchased it, thinking that it is most likely suited towards surround. I may be wrong as it sounds very good with the Fritz speakers, I have in place now? However, now I would be looking as I am now for a strictly 2 channel amp. Any input would be welcomed. Here I'm looking for a new speaker to change in and out with the Fritz, and maybe its just the amp????
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@robshaw while its a larger room, are you able to setup a close listening position in your big room, and bring the Fritz speakers there to try with your Pass X250.8 amp? It’s not an ideal test, yet another way to start to get ideas about other amps.
Listen for tone and see if you can hear something different from your ATI amp. Be sure to use the same interconnects and speaker cables you’re using now with your ATI amp. Hey, that ATI 6002 is no slouch, and it’s just one person’s opinion, yet I place it in the super-neutral camp. Some crave this type of sound, I don’t. It’s all preference. You can put five people in a room, and they all like something different, some times. Trust your ears, that’s what most important.
Trying the Fritz over with you X250.8 might be easier than carrying the 250.8 amp back and forth, ???. Just a thought for a quick test to try. It will be interesting to hear the difference with your Fritz with the Pass amp. The better test is to carry over that Pass 250.8 and try it in the same room where your Fritz speakers are now, but that might not be an option for you - understandable if that’s the case.. It will be interesting if you can try either of these options to try and test. Have fun!
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Assuming the ATI isn’t too big to move, you could bring both the speakers and the ATI to your shop and do an A/B comparison there with the Pass — probably the next best thing to hauling the Pass to your room. I think you need to reconcile are you looking for something different to swap with the Fritz or are you more interested in improving the Fritz with a better amp.
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@soix Thank you so much for the post. You have hit the Quandary, spot on!!! I have to compliment you. As my analyst, you have uncovered the truth, that escaped me.. Your last statement about reconciling the situation is exactly my dilemma. I may try today to move the Pass into the room that is smaller, that houses my fritz speakers. That would be the best comparison test.
Speaking of reconciling. Should I find the PASS is superior (laughing) my new dilemma would be a Coda 8 V1 or Coda S 5.5. I have no idea playing the FRITZ at 90db at 10' away, how may watts are being used ? Then, should I get the 5.5 version and put it in my shop with my 4ohm tektons , which are very easy to drive, or play it safe and get the 8, and be safer with additional WATTS being available? AND I WONDER, why I like BOURBON!!!! Thank you, I THINK! Robert
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@robshaw ...I may try today to move the Pass into the room that is smaller, that houses my fritz speakers. That would be the best comparison test. ...
Yep, and you'll know more [relatively quickly] once the 250.8 amp gets fully warmed and you play a few of your favorite test tracks on the Fritz speakers. 
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To all that have assisted @decooney The wife and I managed to move the x250.8 beast to the the room that houses the FRITZ carbons, small feat!!! As good as the ATI amp was(and it was) the Pass was far superior. Openness, clarity, speed, base, mid range, etc. I guess I never realized how good the PASS amp was until I moved it to a new place, Impressive, my wife thought so too. We lugged the PASS back to its home in my shop, the larger location. We were tempted to leave it with the FRITZ in the smaller room, after hearing it. Going to enjoy the FRITZ even more now that they have been awakened. For those that would like to help? I'm now looking for a very good amp for Rock and ROLL for that smaller room containing the FRITZ. My first choice is either the CODA 8 (most likely the V1) or the CODA S 5.5 . Would like to stay used if I can, The only thing that scares me about the 5.5 is that its only 50 watts classA) no AB after that. Suppose down the road i decided to purchase a pair of ATC speakers, wondering if the 50 watts would run a little shy at higher volumes???? If anyone has some suggestions, that would be great. Starting to look as we speak. Robert TN WOW! was that Pass good!
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MC462 or MC312 or one of the previous versions of those two. I have an MA8900 I run with my Fritz. I listen to rock often and it sounds outstanding to me. This pairing sounds excellent, imho, with all music genres in general, but excels with rock.
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@robshaw good for you!, and if I may say, your wife is quite the trooper to help you move your 100lb Pass Labs X250.8 amplifier back and forth for a test to prove your Fritz speakers are good! Seems she just saved you from buying another pair of speakers unnecessarily, and you don’t have to "hate" the subject title of this thread any more  . It’s great to read you actually did the swap-test without wasting any more time wondering, and found out first hand, quickly. Great job.
Now let the amp suggestions run wild!
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@decooney Thanks so much for your help. Your suggestions were spot on. Yes, at this point I am quite relieved. Now to find the amp of my dreams. So far CODA is #1, willl see tks again
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@robshaw "Now to find the amp of my dreams. So far CODA is #1, willl see tks again".
Sure thing. You mentioned the #8 V1 and 5.5 both.As you read more and ask private non-dealer owners of both, you might find out a bit more about the signature of each amp. It would be interesting if you try both amps with your 8ohm 88db Fritz speakers.
While not as easy to do, it might also help if you share more about the room itself, it's it hard floors/walls, or damped with carpeting and objects around etc. If I wanted more weighty sound and needed that, I'd likely lean to the #8 V1. If I was more in to low level critical listening and did not care about extra body, I might go for the 5.5. These amps do sound different from each other if you read up more.
Note: I use those same woofers in custom speakers I've built that Fritz uses in your speakers. Paired those with soft and metal dome tweeters too. If I needed more power and wanted to fill the room with sound pressure, I'd possibly opt for the #8. If was more into low-level critical listening and did not need a ton of extra current/weight and body to the sound, I might opt for the 5.5. You can call Doug at Coda and I wonder if he might steer you to the 5.5 amp since its the latest.
I like both of those amps for different reasons. Came close to trying both last year and ended up going a different direction with a Soderberg [ex Threshold] upgraded amp, true Class A 50w / 80w in 4 or 8ohm loads. This amp sound now makes me want to do the same and try two of them in mono form. Do you do a lot of low-level or higher volume listening? What is the listening room like, walls/floors?
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@decooney Just taking a break from calling The Music Room, looking at a Macintosh SS, leaving message on a Pass xa-30.8 Going to call shortly CODA dealers and ask some question about the 8 and the S5.5 The room, 13X14 -9' ceilings, Hardwood floors, large couch, area rug, pictures on walls, One of 2 ((jack and Jill) type bedrooms door to open bathroom and open hallway on other side. I listen @ 85 to low 90's db Rock. I think the 5.5 with 50 class A watts would be nice, just afraid, should I need more or buy another speaker that is much less efficient down the road, it will not be able to keep up, (distortion) The pass xa-30.8 has a decent reserve in AB should I need more. The X250 was ideal. Wondering about the Macintosh, MC-312, all AB. There you have it. Ill see what CODA has to say now. Don't know what other amps to look at for my needs? Need power, that's why I'm staying with SS. Thanks for the help.
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@decooney Looking for advice. May be subjective though. Narrowed it down to the Coda 8 V1 model used or a used Macintosh MC-312 Mint, both are mint for that matter, The coda also comes with blue meters. Mac doesn't have a warranty, but MINT. Any thoughts? MAC is AB only Thanks
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@robshaw I have not heard any Pass Labs or Coda speakers. I do remember a long string of posts on the 5.5 by Terry London on Agon last year just before his review came out. He was smitten with it. The post had the title petite in it if I remember correctly- maybe you want to read that to get some idea. You could even message him.
I do have another amp, not class A that I really like. Class AB, Gato Audio Amp 150 AE. Love it. Another amp which I have loved (and owned) is Hegel H390.
Both are power houses (or horses?).
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