Fritz carbon 7SE MK 2, Upgrade

Take a look at Legacy Calibre

https://legacyaudio.com/products/view/calibre

would certainly be a different presentation.

I'm in the erik_squires camp on this one.  It is easy for an audio hobbyist to get an urge for change even when they are quite pleased with their current system.  Face it, we like to tinker. One way to address that instead of trying to improve on the characteristics you like about your current speakers with a trade-up, try getting a second pair that does well in other areas. If only one system, periodically change out the speakers to enjoy what each does well, and then circle back to the other pair after awhile. Then rinse and repeat. 

Or, what I've done is set up a quite different second system in another room. Ohm 1000s with a sub in my main system in a good-sized open room, and then a pair of Spendor 4/5 speakers in a smaller room.  Both sound great to me, but with completely different perspectives.  

@larssman  Couldn't agree more. Fritz and I have spoken a few time at length. Very nice guy, regular type, for what that's worth. We both are the same age, and grew up during the muscle car era. We talked for hours on that topic alone. We have a great deal in common. Very easy guy to talk with.  You appear to have the same qualities. Glad you enjoyed your time with him, not to mention the speakers. Thanks for sharing. I live an hour outside of Nashville area towards Knoxville TN. Robert 

Besides their sound, something else I like about Fritz speakers is that they're designed and built by Fritz himself, and he's more than happy to chat with you at length about anything on the phone or in person. I bought a pair of his speakers and he brought them over to my apartment in San Francisco (he's also in Northern California) and we just hung out and chatted for about 3 hours! 

I will keep all up to date, Thank you. After listening to all (very welcomed) comments, it is a very sobering, complex, thought process. 

Interesting thread. I was on a similar path not too long ago. I have had a pair of Merlin TSMs for several years. I started looking around for something better, or maybe just different. I actually quite like the speakers, but got the itch. The vast majority of the comments/suggestions I got on this and another forum was to keep the Merlins and upgrade some other piece of the pie. The only speakers that seemed to get some talk were the Josephs. But, new ones are out of my league and you don't see many used for sale, if at all. So, I consulted with Rich B at Signature Sound. I am presently driving my Merlins with a Billie integrated tube amp (original version). Rich suggested trying an integrated SS amp...the Belles Aria. Waiting for it to arrive.

In any case, good luck and share your experiences if you make changes.

@robshaw 

Rob, we have a nice sized audio group here in Nashville area. As we try and move from one person's home to the next each month, we get to hear a huge variety of gear. Today (Saturday) is another gtg where this owner has an analog setup and B&W floorstanders. Last month it was an all-Audio Note setup.

You are welcome to join in and get on the mailing list.

After espousing on my Current FRITZ Carbons, and reading@ rammerjammers  post: One word comes to mind that YOU ALL HAVE MENTIONED! Directly or in directly!

QUANDARY!

I may have a take of some interest.  I had a set of ATC SCM20-2a, active stand monitors, very expensive in its day. It had amazing SLAM and dynamics, good width and depth, along with a tweeter that shot an icepick into my brain, to the point of taping multiple layers of toilet paper onto the grill in front of the tweets to tame them. This was BEFORE ATC started making its own in-house tweeter, which is much nicer. (The SCM 9s I heard a few years ago were quite satisfying). Anyway, when my FRITZ REV 7s arrived I set ’em upon the stands and turned them on. The ATC went on sale the next day. 

I love those REV 7s. The best? Surely not, but all-around the best I’ve had.  It just ticks all the right boxes for me. Good luck on your quest and tell us where you land

Just doing some soul searching tonight. I have to thank everyone, some excellent points, some profound! I have been tempted at times with a tube integrated, but, the tubes just scare me, SS has been good to me. In my main system, my amp which I will never sell is a Pass X-250.8  and it drives a pair of Specialty  Tekton Encores upgraded.  

One post that really intrigues me is the suggestion of ATC 19 or 20scm. I called Sound Approach on SOIX suggestion (coincidentally same place I bought my ATI amp) their 10% savings is almost over, as tariffs will raise it 10% on Monday. Their ATC 20 new would be 5849, regular price and 10% more Monday.  The ATC 19 is something that intrigues me w/o a huge outlay, also maybe finding a used pulsar, non graphene.  All posts have been great, Thank you Audiogon too. 

Really suggest - think more about what it is you like and what else you are looking for in an upgrade. Also think about midrange driver material. I strongly prefer paper and possibly carbon fiber cones.  I have heard plenty of good/pricey speakers that image well, 'disappear' better, and may technically be more 'clear' or measure better.  But I don't think I could BUY a speaker with a metal cone driver like the Joseph Audio pulsar. Just me. Highly subjective. If you are looking for a 'disappearing act' - the Pulsars are a possibility or even something like an Evolution Acoustics Mini may be a consideration.  However, they won't do rock and roll with a punch your gut and blow your hair back dynamics and mid-bass.  And although the ATC 19 may be somewhat better, it's bass is very lean and tends to leave some unsatisfied. Figure out your #1 and #2 priorities, and eliminate mid-range material(s) that you could not live with long term. Maybe borrow a mid-high power tube amp short term(?)  - Good luck.  

OP:
 

I'm a big fan of the Rogue Cronus Magnum or CJ integrateds.  Considering what you are using now, I think they'd be super interesting for you, especially given the tube-friendly nature of Fritz speakers. 

MoFi Electronics SourcePoint 10 Master Edition (Walnut) or MoFi Electronics SourcePoint 10 Master Edition (Black) @robshaw 

OP, you may be questing for the speaker version of a new love, but I will tell you this about these speakers: they got even better when I put them and their stands on a townshend podium. More coherent imaging, tighter bass, a bit more detail, micro-dynamics, and texture information.

It won’t cure your hankering for new experiences but it did something significant for the speakers’ performance. 

I loved the Pulsar suggestion, excellent sonics.  But for a sonic change, perhaps Harbeth?  Seems like fun to swap between both speakers

@robshaw We showed with the Fritz Carbon 7s last year at AXPONA. I found them quite transparent and neutral. We ran them with a sub crossed at about 55Hz. I run Carbon 6s in my bedroom system, using an amp of only 5 Watts/channel. It will be a hard sale to convince me to replace them.  

What I found listening to other speakers is exactly what @erik_squires suggests, different but definitely not better.  And not different enough to justify the price, at least to me.  I can’t stress enough to go listen first if you can.  I went looking for a different sound and bought some Falcon Q7 gold badges.  They are a nice change but I wouldn’t recommend them for the music you’re talking about.  They are great for vocals and good for some jazz.  I only mention them wrt finding a different presentation. 

After thinking about it and although I do think the Pulsars will provide some improvements maybe most notably in the bass and possibly in imaging and 3D soundstage they probably are more alike to your speakers than different overall.  So if you’re looking for something really good but different I’d look to ATC especially given the music you listen to.  Neither the Fritz nor JA speakers can match the power and dynamics of the ATC speakers especially in the all-important midrange, and it really shines on rock although other genres benefit too .  Here are some used FYI, but the dealer I linked previously offers returns and a 10% discount so may be a good way to demo and hear what I’m talking about.  Since you have a sub the SCM19s could well be fine and quite a bit cheaper than the SCM20s and are probably the sweet spot in the range.  Read the reviews that are pretty much all glowing, and they’re also used as reference speakers by several reviewers that says something as well.  Anyway…

https://www.ebay.com/itm/146445085555

https://tmraudio.com/fresh-arrivals/atc-scm19-v2-bookshelf-speakers-cherry-pair-open-box/

eric_squires/zlone   thanks also. Everyone has the voice of reason, but me. The phrase, NOT BETTER,  BUT DIFFERENT strikes a logical cord!  My  current ATI amp has the current and power to drive most anything. ATC has always intrigued me, but, the Joseph audio has also.  TAD does also, but, my wallet says differently.  Used should open some doors,maybe. I'll keep all posted. Robert

I would like to thank the following for your help and expertise that I don't have, or would like to. SOIX< THRIFTYAUDIO<JASTRALFU AND CHAYRO.  All had a lot of great advice. Don't really understand the sweet spot ref: on the ATC's?  I may adjust the crossover a bit as suggested, the second sub in this room would be great, just don't have the room.  Like I said,will never sell the FRITZ, they are that good, at least in my situation with rock and roll. I am not in a great hurry, just getting older as I speak, just very curious!  Also wondering if a Joseph audio perspective (USED) would  be a giant step up, overkill, too much for the smaller room, or maybe Nirvana??????? Thank again Robert

I have no experience with KEF recently but the Reference 1 Meta are among the hardest speakers to driver right now, a strong counter point to Fritz which are among the easiest.  Given the OP's amp this may not matter. 

NO.... is the simple answer. 

The full answer is it’s a little complex.  Given the prices of Fritz, with their superior imaging and glass smooth tonal capabilities I’d say there’s nothing at all wrong with them but it’s not unheard of for audiophiles to get bored with anything so I might suggest that rather than look for "better" you look for "different" and find something affordable and fun sounding you might want to swap in from time to time.   Compared to other speakers Fritz may seem too laid back, so perhaps swapping in something with a different balance may be fun and also help you appreciate Fritz in the long term. 

Alternatively ... if it was me and I was starting from your system I’d consider a nice small tube integrated as something to swap in from time to time. 

Also, consider your room.  Fritz speakers do best with a moderately well treated room which controls the treble and lets the mid-bass come out. 

I don’t have experience with the Fritz, but I think the KEF Reference One’s are worth consideration. I had them and they will deliver on Zep and Floyd with amazing clarity and soundstage at volume, with plenty of bass. While I have not heard them, the Joseph’s are a great choice too, probably a toss up and would come down to personal preference. 

Admitted Fritz fan here. I think, with the music you prefer, you risk having a too “in your face” presentation with many other speakers. Fritz designs his speakers with a more musical and polite (in a positive way) presentation that sounds very non-fatiguing, which IMO works well with aggressive music.  Have you experimented with a second sub, perhaps crossed over a bit higher?  That would give significantly more bass energy and take some burden off the Fritz, allowing them to play louder and cleaner without losing the qualities you like. Just my opinion 💡

that is a dramatic upgrade sound wise
 

I have Fritz Rev 7 SEs and this is the single issue that has prevented me from “upgrading” speakers.  I have heard the Pulsar Graphenes and they are great but I wouldn’t say they are a dramatic upgrade.  I listened to some Fyne 501SPs as well that were outstanding as well but again not a dramatic upgrade imho.  I would go listen to whatever you’re considering before pulling the trigger on anything.  You might be surprised at how well your current speakers hold up against them.

The ATC SCM20 may have too tight of a sweet spot to satisfy most users.

The Joseph Audio suggestion is excellent. You might want to consider a used pair of TAD LABS ME-1 used.

I think you’re on the right track with the Pulsars, but I don’t even think you necessarily need the Graphene version and some actually prefer the original unlike the Perspectives where the Graphene is a clear improvement.  Plus you can get the original Pulsars for around $4k if you’re patient.  That’s what I’d do.  

Given the music you listen to you might also consider the ATC SCM20 as ATC really excels at dynamics that can be a big plus for rock music, plus they’re just great speakers.  This dealer offers a 10% discount and a return policy.

https://soundapproach.com/atc-scm20psl-classic-series-9-3-way-passive-speakers-pair.html