Does raising speaker cables off the floor really make a big difference?

Had a set under my cables for a couple of weeks now. It's made a huge difference. 

I spend time trying to stand them all back up every time I do anything around the system.

Right now I've found them most stable stack up on a shelf

Makes zero difference.

So here it is, Raising cables Works !
Large sound room,big system..lets tweek. Carefully suspended my cables from the ceiling using knob & tube technolog, as per the likes of John D.Harnden Jr. General Electric Engineer (Retired) and others. Strategically hung (clothes line style) cloth tapestries...Bingo Audio tweaking bliss ! Bored with the hunt scenes etc. down came the tapestries. Renovations gifted me a temporary cache of my girlfriends high end lingerie...Another Bingo, Visual & Audio stimulation !!
I'm minus a girl girlfriend & most of my female friends.
Further research left me tapestries on walls,wool area carpet,leather furniture,comfort and detailed audio sound. 
And finally my appropriate length wires / cables are separated as much as possible and on the floor !!
Research and knowledgable friends will save you money and aggravation dealing with scientifically baseless stupidity.
If given the opportunity look around at the wiring in a recording studio ...that'll make you smile.
Cheers

I don't start a CD until I've paused the track rather than stopping it and then pressing play.  Tom Port of Better Records demonstrated the difference about 14 years ago  After I began using my Walker Talisman about 13 years ago, the difference was diminished, usually I can't tell the difference between stop/play and pause play once I do the pause/play from the first track on the disc.

Gosh, you don’t say, moopman?

I wouldn’t worry about it in most cases.

However isolating signal wires from power cord runs and power cords from each other is usually a good idea no matter how that is achieved.

And No. 10 on the list from What HiFi is ... drum roll......

“So, how come a CD sounds better if you stop it and then press play, rather than playing it from pause? Because, dear readers, we can assure you they do.

We haven’t heard a definitive explanation. Nevertheless, in our experience doing things this way just sounds that bit better.”

>>>>What the ding dong!! I implore you, gentle readers, can that be true? If it Is true there’s gotta be a pop quiz.

In tweaky cases such as this, where I am too ignorant to scientifically determine emphatically one way or ’tother, yet it pseudo-scientifically seems maybe a legit possibility, if I can implement an inexpensive solution I’ll go for it. I found ceramic lamp sockets (round, approx. 1.5" tall) at Home Depot for $2.25 each. I removed the two wires and metal parts. Voila! Cheap-ass solution for ceramic wire risers. Did I hear a difference? Honestly, I didn’t do a double-blind test because it is such a cheap solution, so who cares?!

I use those white ceramic corn dishes.

The huuuuge difference. You need two shuts Black label

From What HiFi "Keeping Cables Off The Floor"...can someone elaborate on Why 'loose power socket connections'?  Thanks.

"Not convinced? Consider this: companies like Naim are incorporating looser power connectors in all of their standalone hi-fi components for this exact reason. These are designed to minimise unwanted vibrations before they get in to the product and cause mischief. Next time you head to your dealership and plug in some pricey hi-fi kit, when the power socket on the unit feels a little loose, it's not because it's shoddily made."

Above copied from What HiFi (Point 6. Keeping Cables Off The Floor):

https://www.whathifi.com/features/hi-fi-tricks-you-might-not-believe-affect-sound-quality-but-they-do

My cables do not touch the floor just because of my gear layout, so I guess I'm good, lol.

The cable elevators are nice but.....zero improvements in SQ. 

none whatsoever.  

Hahahahahahahha

me too

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Every time I hear 'snake oil", I'm reminded of Rain Man.

Snake oil

Carpet part is much more educating.

WTH is this?
Audiogon or Carpet World Weaver's weekly?
😲😲😲😲

Weave:

to form by interlacing threads, yarns, strands, or strips of some material:

Pedantic:

overly concerned with minute details or formalisms

Wrong:

Backing — Fabrics and yarns that make up the back of the carpet as opposed to the carpet pile or face. In tufted carpet:

• Primary backing — A woven or nonwoven fabric in which the yarn is inserted by the tufting needles.

How open or closed the weave (or non weave) defines how close the tufts are to each other which defines the density of the fibres where the cables lie (approx) which defines the dielectric constant.

audiozenology"Weave "to form by interlacing threads"

You can keep insisting that you are correct it just makes it sad to watch you because a berber carpet is not woven it is tufted but I know it hurts you to have any of you're errors, mistatements, or false claims corrected I can only suggest you be more factual prior to posting.

Weave:

to form by interlacing threads, yarns, strands, or strips of some material:

Pedantic:

overly concerned with minute details or formalisms

audiozenology"Weave is a somewhat generic term meaning interlacing. A Berber carpet weaves a loop into a backing "

No it does not for that to be true such a carpet would have to be made on a weaving machine but it is not it is tufted they are two very different things that is a simple fact that you can either accept or continue to argue against kind of like a fish out of water that hopelessly flops about.

Hemp or blended

I mentioned the yarn to my wife she wondered which would work best, cotton, wool, acrylic, silk, bamboo, hemp, linen or a blended?

Not funny.

Forgot to add I am running tubes. A friend running solid state found that having them from the ceiling with red and blue yarn worked equally as well. You must alternate the colors. And suspend the speaker wire at exactly .93 the total wall height for maximum clarity and transparency. After approximately 273.5 hours of break in you will achieve maximum soundstage and details. Also the edginess will smooth out.  

If the same degree of sensitivity that some people claim in their hearing prowess was declared in the other senses the individual would certainly be considered a candidate for psychiatric evaluation.  I don't think I've ever heard anybody claim to be able to see more clearly by elevating their lamp cord.  Or that the heating pad on their sore back emitted a better quality heat by rerouting the power cord.  Only in audiophilia does this psychosis exist.

It didn’t make any difference with mine. Until I ran them across the ceiling. Attached to ceramic insulators used on the old high power lines. Everything opened up them. Clarity, transparency, and lowered the noise floor drastically. You must separate the power cords and interconnects though when doing the with them. Every little bit helps. Oh, I found Velcro from the ceiling works best with the power cords... who would have thunk... 

So many chiefs in the kitchen but only a few real chefs.

It will make a difference to the look of your room, but not to the sound of your hifi.

OK, seems like trolling is in vogue here. We all know of people having multiple usernames. But very few know that there are multiple people sharing the same username lols.

That explains the mysterious phenomenon of why some people possess expertise in multiple disciplines lols. Some username in here seems to know things that can only be possible if he/or she were having multiple heads lols.  It's like they possess the wiki pages in their heads lols.  

It would be a challenging experiment to prove that raising cables off the floor does not (rpt not) improve the sound. Perhaps a controlled blind test? Ha ha 😬

none

audiozenology"Clearthink, If you are going to troll me, which appears to be what you are doing, then you better sharpen your pencil or your Google skills, or go back to school."
It is time for you to understand and accept that those who correct you're errors, confusions, and inaccurate representations are not trolls but simply explaining for the benefit of others and if you do not stop these attacks and personal insults on me it will be an other matter for the moderators to have to address with you so please show them some respect for them, stick to the facts, and tolerate if not welcome those who choose to also post here.

Clearthink,

If you are going to troll me, which appears to be what you are doing, then you better sharpen your pencil or your Google skills, or go back to school.


1) Polypropylene is the second most common material used for indoor carpets and dominates by a large measure in commercial applications. Note my wording "often". The most common residential indoor material is Nylon.

2) Weave is a somewhat generic term meaning interlacing. A Berber carpet weaves a loop into a backing but does not cut it. A cut pile carpet weaves a loop into the backing and then cuts it. In both cases, those loops are made from .... wait for it ... interlaced (weaved) threads.

Your comment w.r.t weave is pedantic, inaccurate, and most importantly missed the point w.r.t. dielectrics / dielectric constants. As the weave of both the threads themselves are open (not tight), and ditto for the overall construction, most of the carpet ends up being air. This would be similar to the foamed construction of dielectrics in commercial cables. Being essentially air, the dielectric constant of the carpet will be much lower than the raw material used in it .. akin to those fancy dielectrics (like teflon) used in audio cables.


3) Porcelain has a much higher dielectric constant than most plastics. That is not remotely debatable. Also not debatable is that purely for an insulator of high voltage, dielectric strength is the critical measure, not dielectric constant. However, where a porcelain insulator is concerned, that is still not the critical measure, since the "insulation" is really not the porcelain itself, except where it is mounted, but the distance formed by the surface of the insulator between the wire and what it is being insulated from. That is why those insulators are usually wavy to increase surface length, or in technical parlance, creepage distance. Porcelain is used because it is strong/stiff, does not break down under sunlight (like most plastics), does not oxidize, relatively impervious to environmental contaminants, smooth surface is self cleaning, is non hydroscopic, and has all those properties while also being very cheap.

audiozenology"Carpets are often made of one of those "fancy" dielectrics, i.e. polypropylene, and polyethylene, and because it is a open weave"

Here is another topic where you are confused, misinformed, or else are trying to deceive. Polypropylene is very rarely used in carpet manufacturing because it has very poor wear qualities it’s most common use is for a "turf" or grass-like carpet which may be what you have in you’re living room but that is not most people’s taste it is much more common to see nylon as the fabric "of choice." Polyethylene would be used for an outdoor carpet not an indoor one.

Neither are these floor coverings "open weave" because they are not woven like a fine rug made from wool, silk, or cotton but rather they are "tufted" and this is true of a "commercial" type "loop" carpet which is continuous filament and also true of carpets with a real pile which is called "cut pile."


"Of course a worse dielectric than wood and much worse than carpet would be porcelain what those cable insulators are typically made of."

If they are such poor insulators why do electric utilities around the world use them maybe they have acquired, assembled, and studied more data, knowledge and research than you?

doitwithlife
TheCableco Synergistic Orange?

I have found that any sonic benefit of raising the cables is negated by the irritating noise made by the mice feet when they do the limbo under the cables.

Interesting timing. 

I'm of the mind it really isn't going to change things in the slightest. But, I'm game to see. 

I ordered a set of fuses and when I got the invoice it said congratulations we're sending you a free set of cable risers for free.

Box is delayed somewhere between here and Philly so gonna have to wait longer to hear for myself. 

Wondering if my box would have been ontime if it was raised off the floor of the truck? 

Actually, putting a drumkit on a riser drastically effects it’s sound, and some recording studios do so for that very reason. But not as much so as where in relation to the walls the kit is placed. Avoid at all costs cinderblock walls, as I learned at one studio in North Hollywood. Too close to one made the sound all "phasey" (think "Itchycoo Park"). Out as far as possible into the room is a good rule of thumb.

I have to say this thread is almost like beers but not quite though :-)

Carpets are often made of one of those "fancy" dielectrics, i.e. polypropylene, and polyethylene, and because it is a open weave, would be similar to foamed polyethylene and foamed polypropylene, which are the best dielectrics for cable w.r.t. low dielectric constant, even better than teflon which is difficult to foam. Teflon is used for high frequency cables because it is dimensionally stable which is necessary for high frequency operation (constant impedance).  Wood is a so-so dielectric. Of course a worse dielectric than wood and much worse than carpet would be porcelain what those cable insulators are typically made of.

What do you think is actually happening when you raise your cables from your floor?   What was affecting the sound with the cables on the floor?  How?  With what effects?

If for instance you are posting some constant sonic effect on the signal, what’s the explanation?   If it’s some constant background noise, presumably if you have your system on without music playing you should be able to hear this “noise.”


Do you?


 I have cable running through walls and along shag rugs.  I can’t hear a thing coming from my speakers when music isn’t playing so what might I expect to hear a difference with cables raised?

Well, that is a pretty low bar. Oh well. Pretend its serious, answer it serious.

What do you think is actually happening when you raise your cables from your floor?

We don't have to think, by which I think you mean guess, because this has been tested. If its distance then the higher the better. But testing with the same materials doing the lifting shows no such relationship. If its vibration then materials known to have excellent vibration control characteristics should work better. This has been tested and revealed to be not only correct, but the opposite. Materials with known bad vibration control characteristics actually work better. So its not vibration control. If its electric charges then known electrical insulators should work better.

Bingo! Ceramic insulators perform best of all materials tested. This suggests its something to do with electric charges.

What was affecting the sound with the cables on the floor? How?  

Again, evidence suggests it was electric charges. They do tend to propagate along surfaces, you know. There are even electrical standards used in industry by which these things are rated. When comparisons are made guess what? The insulators with the highest kV ratings sound the best.

With what effects?

The effects are the sound has grain, glare, backgrounds are less black, air around images less open, and the whole presentation is flatter, less 3D, and smaller. Ceramic insulators that raise cables up off the floor improve all these effects.

If for instance you are posting some constant sonic effect on the signal, what’s the explanation?   If it’s some constant background noise, presumably if you have your system on without music playing you should be able to hear this “noise.”


Do you?

Pretty sure you meant to say imposing not posting. Posting makes no sense. In any case you would be right, if only you were right about it being constant. Why would it be constant? What on Earth could possibly be adding a constant noise? We go to great lengths to design power supplies that are what? Constant! That's how hard it is to be constant!

Not to mention, if it was constant, well we sure wouldn't need elevators. We'd simply figure out what it is and filter it out.

So constant is the last thing it is. 

By the way, you see what I'm doing? Taking ordinary basic stuff everyone knows, really obvious stuff in fact, not the slightest bit exceptional or controversial, combining it with a few simple observations and then applying basic 101 level deductive logic. 

I have cable running through walls and along shag rugs.  I can’t hear a thing coming from my speakers when music isn’t playing so what might I expect to hear a difference with cables raised?

Well you could try and see for yourself. Or just read through the info on-line, including even in this very thread. No? Hmmm.  


Okay so here we go. Sorry if this is plodding slow and basic but... its really basic stuff. Its just connecting the dots thats hard.

Electric current cannot move through a wire without creating a proportional magnetic field around that wire. Also, magnetic fields cannot cross a wire without inducing a current in that wire. It then follows that electric charges anywhere near the cable will in some way however small induce a signal in the wire.

So there's one "why" right there. The music signal itself generates electric charges all around the cable. To the extent they are allowed to build up whatever noise and smearing they cause will build up as well.

But wait, there's more!

Insulators are imperfect. Insulators tend to absorb a small amount of energy which is then released back into the wire, the time delay smearing the signal. Air is a pretty good insulator. Carpet, wood, not so much. Nowhere near as good as the expensive carefully chosen dielectrics used in a lot of high end cables either. So there's another reason.

But wait, there's more- and this is the kicker!

Do you have any idea the size of the tiniest squiggles on a record? Its roughly the size of a large organic molecule. In other words, really, really small. Yet we hear these tiny details. When you drop something on the floor and look where it went, you know by sound alone where to look. When speakers are placed too near a side wall the imaging is ruined. With experimentation we learn sounds arriving within 3 to 5 milliseconds are responsible. Sound travels about one foot per millisecond. So we put our speakers three to five feet away from the side walls and the imaging is great.

We could go on and on all day like this. One after another, and not a one of em the least bit controversial or even secret. Just basic stuff everyone knows. Or if they don't, can confirm in like ten seconds with a web browser. A whole lot of things that may seem utterly unrelated until you realize what they all have in common is humans being able to discern incredibly tiny little details.

Well, some of us, anyway.

Gee, that’s the $64K question I’ve been asking for months with no real answer. What is the audio signal in cables and what makes it susceptible to external vibration and or static electric charge? 

bubinga 

What do you think is actually happening when you raise your cables from your floor?   What was affecting the sound with the cables on the floor?  How?  With what effects?

If for instance you are posting some constant sonic effect on the signal, what’s the explanation?   If it’s some constant background noise, presumably if you have your system on without music playing you should be able to hear this “noise.”


Do you?


 I have cable running through walls and along shag rugs.  I can’t hear a thing coming from my speakers when music isn’t playing so what might I expect to hear a difference with cables raised?

Because he is obviously too lazy or too jaded or just trolling or just doesn’t care about the sound quality of his system and then has the arrogance to criticize a tweak he hasn’t even tried even though it costs almost nothing (or $0.00) and takes a matter of minutes to determine its efficacy. I love it when people "judge" something without any basis for that judgement. Ultimate hypocrisy. As Forest Gump said, stupid is as stupid does.