Do You Play Or Save Your Best Cartridges

I have two cartridges that are retired. One of them will get retiiped as a back up. I have a new cartridge (just 130 hrs on it as I type this), and it’s the best one I’ve ever had. That is all I will use until it wears out and needs to go back for a rebuild. Then I’ll bring out the backup while I wait.

Depends on the LP. I won't use my best cartridge on some of my cherished albums from my youth long, long ago. I only have one  cartridge with a conical stylus for 78s and it's sure not my best one. Besides, from time to time a change is nice. Then when I switch back to my favorite AT33PTG/2 (which is not my most expensive MC) I only appreciate her more. She must just have a special synergy in my system. Since the PTG was designed strictly for the Japanese market, I am not so sure I will be able to replace her whe the time comes.

I would agree with 'use the best you have'.  If a person has an 'ear for music' then why wouldn't you want to hear the best you can?  Of course it all comes down to how deep a person's pockets are but you still have to have a passion for it.  You can be a millionaire but if you don't care then a $500 system might be good enough. Depending on what your priorities are, usually a person will buy the best they can afford.

If I have it, I use it. If I love it, I'll buy another one to replace the current one when it's done. 

@dogberry I don’t think you are doing it wrong at all…. now where did i put that….5th tonearm ?……

@bdp24 well as you well know… neither Grado nor Decca had a monopoly on the far reaching tails of the variability curve…. As a Signet dealer, we had ( more properly were REQUIRED to have a fine German microscope for cartridge evaluation, as PART of.. ).. Plenty of storied brands struggle to meet the published specifications….. Volumes could be written…. ah hem…. were… Deming, Juran….

i digress….

@dogberry I fully empathise with your concern for having a access to a rebuild for a Cart'.

I lost access to a exceptional Third Party Cartridge Service as a result of Brexit, the Technician was not interested in all the new requirements associated with the to and from shipping and reduced the customer base.

A real shame and a fair proportion of testimonials given on the Web Site were from UK Based Customers.

I feel confident, I am back on track when the time comes, but a trusted workmanship, is a luxury.

It seems I am in a minority by using my best cartridge sparingly. But don't worry, I don't have to change cartridges several times a day, I have two turntables, and if only the courier would get a move on I would have two tonearms on each. So I can have my best moving iron mounted (and used sparingly, as it is not at all clear that the new owner of londondecca.com will be there when it next needs a rebuild), and my next best moving iron, plus my best MC and finally a mono version of it. Being spoilt for choice isn't such a bad thing!

That’s right, don’t think about enjoying a cartridge. Put it into a glass cage and admire it instead.

What the? You enjoy life by living it. Same goes for audio gear. Enjoy them while they’re being used. Otherwise what’s the point of ownership.
 

Don’t allow fear to rule your life. 

Have to be bonkers to want to change cartridges more than you have to.  Each time you do that there is a small but finite chance you will damage it  - brushing against the stylus with a sleeve or any number of ways. Plus it is a PITA to do .

If this is an obsession for you, I'd suggest buying one of the tables that allow mounting of more than one arm so you can have a casual music arm and a best audiophile arm/cartridge.

Save it 7ntil what, your hearing begins to degrade due to age? I’m with the gent that said “use it, then buy another” and in the camp of (loosely) “listen to the best regardless of mood”

@tomic601:

Nope, Decca's defined variability ;-) . The London's not nearly as much so.

Good thing I didn't hear that before it arrived. The one I have has absolutely superb fit and finish.

especially not a Grado…. of course…..one of my assignments…long ago… was picking thru the incoming Grado and play grading them….. let’s just kindly say they defined variability…..

pasquale Grado lived upstairs…but i guess that’s a different story / bottle of wine

Heretic!

Not that I've ever had one - what are they these days, 20k? And then there's the 25 years+ of aging ...

About precision, it means you can adjust by ear to whatever sounds best. No-one, not even a Grado, can align a stylus to a cartridge body to within a few minutes of arc. And those are the sort of adjustments which I sometimes make, to allow for different records.

before i went 2 far with the false precision, might check the Grado stylus / cantilever alignment…. But, when ya get a good one…magic midrange…. but again….. why enjoy the same wine / food pairing every…..day ?

@grislybutter You may surprise yourself. You don't need to do everything yourself - I sure don't. I buy off-the-shelf whenever I can.

Prefer to just design and assemble, but sometimes a craftsman can't think of how to do it, or is too expensive. Why not try something easy? Like a cartridge? (joke).

Uh - because it's Romanee - Conti?

why drink the same wine….every day….. ?

@terry9

if you have the skills. I am only good at breaking things :)

@grislybutter "I guess the rest of the setup would be just as expensive"

Unless you DIY. I like to budget for something pretty good, like a 10-20k turntable or a 5k tonearm, and see what I can do with that money. That’s led me to an air bearing TT with a very stiff air cushion in all three dimensions, and a superbly isolated motor which I may patent. That took me 3 years. Of fun.

Then I did the tonearm, again air bearing, linear tracker, another 3 years. I am currently experimenting with wands - I’ve had a sapphire tube on hold for 2 years because I have some useful thoughts on resonance control with a lightweight wand. So far, so good. I can adjust tangentiality (LT analogue of overhang) on-the-fly to 5 microns. VTA adjusts repeatably to 2 minutes of arc, azimuth also 2 minutes of arc. The only ’off-the-fly’ adjustment is VTF, which is adjustable to 10 mg.

When you have that much adjustability, you can get the most from a cartridge, and quite a lot it is, if the Mayajima and Koetsu are anything to go by. I’m fabricating a wand now for a Grado Lineage, we’ll see how that goes.

I think DIY is better than buying. It’s certainly a lot more fun.

DIY forever!!

I still play a vintage cart (that's better than most reasonably priced stuff today). If it fails, it fails...eventually it will. In the meantime I will enjoy it.

A different one in my main system. And I have several others whose whereabouts I don't know. A drawer somewhere.

@mulveling @clearthinker

thanks! Sounds wild!

@terry9 I guess the rest of t he setup would be just as expensive

what does a 10,000 dollar cartridge do better than a $1,000 one?

@grislybutter There are so many variable in analog playback, this will never be sufficiently answered. However at some point the price comes down enough that it dictates materials, design, and assembly choices which are less than optimal. It’s not that they can’t sound good in the right setup, it’s that something more expensive or exotic *could* sound better. At $1000:

• Aluminum pipe cantilever is almost a given. Boron cantilevers are very rare here. Cantilever has a big impact on sound. Aluminum is generally considered warmer, and boron more detailed / clean sounding.
• Neodymium magnets. Alnico / platinum / permendur / samarium-cobalt magnets are not seen at this price point. Magnet absolutely has a significant impact on the sound. Neodymiums are generally punchy but brash compared to the more velvety smooth sound from exotic magnets.
• Body material - noting exotic here; you’re lucky to get aluminum. But you’re more likely to get some kind of plastic, resin wood, or delrin. Bodies are a more subtle impact than magnet or cantilever, but still there.
• Coil and motor assembly. Being handmade, there is much variation in production. Many manufactures select the "best" finished motors for their higher end models. The lower grade motors get earmarked for the $1000 models :)
• Stylus - I’m not too hung up on stylus, as I think even a nude elliptical can sound exceptional. But it definitely NEEDS to be a nude shank, high quality diamond. Bonded tips suck.

You can certainly find used cartridges and "deals" for new cartridges at $1000 that sound awesome. But for me (and others) the "what if" drives us to try more and more exotic examples too. Yes - there are nuances, subtleties, and refinements that make the expense worthwhile (to us, sometimes). But a properly setup and matched $1000 "good deal" cartridge can definitely sound badass too :) In a 2nd system I’m now running a Benz Wood I got off here for $1000, and it really doesn’t give up THAT much to the exotic big rig (with the $10K+ cart). But the little Benz has definitely been provided the "right" partners in arm and phono stage - that’s absolutely crucial. The Ortofon Cadenza Red is another near-$1K cartridge I’ve really liked a lot in the past.

I play my best cartridge, a Lyra Skala, and keep a Clavis Da Capo and AT OC9 II as spares in the eventuality the Skala needs work or gives up the ghost.

The Cartridge falls into a Market where it is met with a Low Turnover high Mark Up.

This was learnt quite a few years past when HiFi Magazines were being used to promote Cartridges supplied directly from the Manufacturers at the Wholesale Price.

Cart's were passed around a selection of in house reviewers, the ones that were not to be kept in house were soon to be for sale at a very attractive price following the release of the Monthly Magazine.

I once was sold a Cart' from this era with a few hours on it that retailed at £700-800 for approx' £150.

On my initial inquiry, I was quite skeptical about the above explanation given for a unusually cheap Cart'.

The explanation being the Producers are releasing Cart's at wholesale to be reviewed and promoted, this was at the time when Turntables were becoming must have items again, and Brands were producing New Models for the first time since CD hurt the Vinyl Replay ancillaries business.

I picked up in person, by taking a Train from a London Train Station to a Coastal Train Station, where the Vendor met me.

The Vendor was the editor of a well known HiFi Magazine, I believed the story given after that.

Hypothesis to ponder, if the parts for a TOTR Cart' from Brand is say $500 and a Technician once completed their input and any other input required to complete the Cart's as a functioning model adds another $300, how much does the end Cart' get entered into the Market at.

Take the above to a very reputable Brand, and how much does the Cart' get entered into the Market Place at.

Take a renowned Cart' designer and the Cart' is now assembled by their hand and Quality Controlled from Parts on a Bench Table to a functioning model, how much is this personal service going to add to a already substantially priced item.

Many Many Cart's share materials, leaving many many Cart's quite similar in their overall sonic. The Brand and the Service on offer from the Brand will determine the Mark Up over the basic costs outlaid.

Neary all my HiFi System is Bespoke Built, it has been produced by EE's, Technicians and Engineers adept with Micro Engineering Skills.

I have always known the costing for the parts required to produce my Bespoke Items. This leaves me with the equation of how much I am to pay for the work offered from a wanted service. I have never denied myself the opportunity to have the work completed. I am not subjected to substantial Mark Up's just a calculation of hours required and remunerations requested.     

@grislybutter    "what does a 10,000 dollar cartridge do better than a $1,000 one?"

Assuming equally good set-up, I believe there are only three variables: design, material choice and quality, accuracy of assembly.  The first can be addressed by genius or getting more minds on the job - the latter costs money.  The others mainly cost money.

Is it not that a Cartridge is extremely Fragile and all with a time served experience are knowing there is a Cart' going to be lost, so a spare at hand is not too strange.

This does add to the momentary heart flutters when carrying out certain management procedures for the Cart'. I have stopped Hand Cueing, it helps with my needs.

Spare Cart's are sometimes available, as used Cart's are not sold on, and a model is purchased that has superseded them, over a long period a collection can be acquired.

A Cart' certainly does not need a 1000 hours usage to warrant replacement, some like myself have moved on at a few hundred hours.

I have a Hana SL that is with approx' 100 Hours when superseded after a short period of usage and is now owned for 4 years at least.

The length of ownership and limited usage does not bother me, I have camera Lenses that cost more and have maybe been on the Camera for approx' 500 Images being captured over 6+years.

A Cart' and Camera Lens are a Tool, one is vital to capture light and enable the capturing of a Image, the other is vital, as it tracks a groove, which drive coils, generate a signal, to be transferred to the Point it is to become Sound. 

The Cart' is Sacrificial and will not remain as a optimised performer throughout it usage life, swapping out prior to the Styli being worn, is OK.    

@grislybutter  "what does a 10,000 dollar cartridge do better than a $1,000 one?"

Absolutely nothing unless you have a comparable turntable and a comparable tonearm. If you do have these, you get smoother, clearer, more defined, more delicate, more refined sound. Nothing much.

You only live once. Life as we know it is too short and filled with the absence of nothing. Keep the best cartridge you have and put it on the best table you have. 

oh boy :) I imagine how they gather around you on Father's Day, tell you stories and make you smile

and you must be some genius or cyborg if you can handle 150 cartridges in your head with distinct info about their sound.

@grislybutter 

They’re a lot like children. You just don’t forget their sound. So I guess I’m a genius, since I’m not a cyborg. Was listening to a JVC Z-1 with original beryllium canti and nude MR stylus earlier. Listening now to the M97HE with original HE stylus now. M95ED before those. Each one has a lot to love! But my favorite MM cart is not my Grace F-9E. It’s the 1970 ADC 10E MKIV. Amazing imaging I don’t get from the Koetsu or Dynavector. Retipped with a boron canti and nude MR stylus. Tracks at 0.75 grams. It’s a singular best cartridge.

what does a 10,000 dollar cartridge do better than a $1,000 one?

I don't know, and I am curious. 

Aside from having a dedicated mono cart ( recommended if you have the wax ) I do see your point vis a vis streaming. But I also think retip costs for a second tier cart are very low so ' spin dem rekords :) '

I guess an explanation is necessary.

How and why does a habit develop? I have played vinyl since my teens, so this is not new. There was a time when my digital collection was physical, and then later ripped files on a hard drive. However, they did not mirror my record collection, I typically bought distinctly different albums. Yes there is some overlap, but not a great percentage. So at that time digital could not be a casual format playing the same type of music I had on vinyl. Streaming changes that.

So if I wanted to listen casually, let us say I am at the computer, reading a book, or playing on the phone, why would you burn up the hours on your best cartridge? There is an argument for having a lesser cartridge for just casual listening.

I have two decent cartridges, a Transfiguration Audio Proteus and an Ortofon Verismo that are cartridges 1A and B for me. I listen to them quite a bit. But I have a casual cartridge installed on another arm, an Ortofon MC3000 II or 5000 that I can also play. I am considering eliminating them because I can now stream digital and it sound remarkably good.

So that is the reasoning behind the thread.

I was just curious what others do.

When I played a lot of vinyl, I almost always used my best cartridge, with the exception of played some mucked up platters, why wouldn’t you?

and you must be some genius or cyborg if you can handle 150 cartridges in your head with distinct info about their sound.  

@wolfie62 

I believe you... because.... no one can make this stuff up :)

I have to add, if you have to go full crazy, better to collect cartridges than guns. No one ever died from negligent handling of a cartridge. 

this is a new level of insanity. Why don't you guys put the cartridge in a glass safe and watch it. You can play the song in your head :)
 

I have more than 150 vintage cartridges, 1955-2021. Every cartridge presents a different sonic signature, different compromises, different qualities of detail, imaging, speed, FR, focus, clarity, etc. Every cartridge does. I change cartridges 2-3 times per day. It’s doubtful that I’ll wear out any styli in my lifetime.

I enjoy listening to mono records on a 1957 GE VRII. Maybe a few stereo records on a GE VR1000. Perhaps a Grado. Maybe an Empire 108, or Pickering U38. Maybe a Shure M44, or M95, or M97 Era IV. Maybe a V15V-MR, or V15VxMR. Maybe an Empire EDR.9. Might go to the ADC Astrion or XLM MKI, or ZLM MKIII. Maybe a Koetsu Rosewood. Maybe a Dynavector. Or go to a Pickering V-15, or XV15 1200E. Or a Stanton 681EEE. Maybe an Ortofon SuperOM 40. Maybe an AT 12XE. 
 

I find value and great enjoyment listening to the different sonic signatures. Same for turntables. Swapping out a Denon DP52F for a Garrard Zero 100. Or a 1963 Garrard AT6 changer. Or a 1976 Garrard GT55. Or a Linn Sondek LP12. Or a JVC QL Y7F. 
 

Since I work from home, I may put a stack of 6 LPs on the Zero 100, with the ADC XLM MKIII and let them play. 
 

Or switch to a 1962 Weathers 66 and play using the Weathers LDM cartridge. 
 

Every one is a gem in its own right. There is no “best.” Just a different mix of compromises. Like swapping out DACs.

My digital is pretty good, so that is my casual go to. I also listen to digital for more critical listening. I only listen to records when nobody is home to remind me that I’m wasting my time and avoiding my long to-do list. Even my dog refuses to enter my listening room. This is a room that could have been used for so many things. My wife suggests that like the model home, it could have been the children’s play room. I quickly point out that our youngest is 16 and we already have a dedicated office and a theater room for the kids. Anyway, records only when alone.

At 74 years old, I listen to my best cartridge the Ortofon Cadenza Black. While I have a back up to use, it would only be used till I get the Ortofon replaced or rebuilt. 

I’ve three arms on two tables and 5 cartridges (and a 78rpm one) so I play them all. Each cartridge has its own personality. Depends on the music and mood. One scenario does get the most play with the best cartridge.

The secret to having it all is knowing you already do. Happy listening 🎶

Years ago, I was driving from Boston to Hackensack and back a few times a month to see my wife that was doing her residency in NJ. A good friend of mine suggested that I should rent a car for the trips to keep the miles down on my car. I explained to him, the point of having a great car is to use and enjoy it, not save it for the next guy..That car, which I still own, made the trips faster and infinitely enjoyable than any car that I could rent, I have one cartridge and I love it, I have very limited opportunities to enjoy music each week, so why would I not enjoy it to it's fullest. 

I don't see the economic or sonic logic of having multiples of any hi-fi component.

Pardon the analogy but it’s a bit like saying “I’m never going to sleep with the Mrs to keep her nice & tight for the next guy!”

I listen to whatever I want to listen to.

If one wants to preserve the longevity of the use of the original, because a direct replacement is not available as a easily acquired New Model or the Producer does not overhaul the Cart' to Original Spec', then the idea of limited usage will have a appeal.

Lyra, during posts on this forum, have made it known, they have certain Cart's offered, that will always be overhauled to Original Build Spec'

If a Cart' is overhauled to an 'equivalent model', with a similar performance, either carried out by the OEM or a Third Party Service, and the Cart' user has no concerns for this variant of the Original Spec'.

The Cart' should not be met with any concern for being used regularly, with the  knowing it can be continually used as a result of a overhaul when required.

This is a good method to incrementally reduce the cost per replay for a Purchased Cart' over a period of time, i.e, a Cart' retailing at $2500, is approx' £2.50 per replay based on a 1000 hours usage life. A full overhaul at approx' $500, will produce a Cart' offering 2000 hours usage at $3000, equating to approx' $1.50 per replay. Carry out the same activity on a second occasion and the Cart' cost per replay is now down to budget Cart' territory, where a Cart' from this price range may be discarded after it usage life has expired.    

It is common to see reports of 1500 - 2000 hours usage life in a Cart', if Cart's known for this longevity are considered, the above equation becomes even more attractive, if a Cart's cost is a concerning factor and deters a buyer from purchasing.  

Vinyl is only for my serious listening.  For Background music I have FM, CD's and IPOD on another system.

I don't worry about my cartridge or stylus.  I can purchase those anytime. Probably a one better too.   I would hate to have to replace some of my records.  If I can find them at all.

I'm retired and I have better things to do than flip a record every 20 minutes,

Ha!!! Bose is awesome.