Do I need 10 gauge power cord if I have 10 gauge from panel?

Wow, so many of my posts deleted, including banal one's about math.  Hah.

Electrical wires directionally created? Ie. Does it matter which direction wires are installed between the panel and the outlet??

@alerrico Wrote:

For the huge 30 AMP monster AMP I would run dedicated circuit with double breaker. It already has a 30 AMP NEMA plug to prevent plugging into a standard 110 outlet.

FWIW: I run the Crown studio Reference 1 Amp on a 240 Volt 20 Amp dedicated circuit with a dedicated 20 Amp double pole breaker, per Crown’s recommendation. 😎

Mike

When your why do people always think the power cord is the last 6 feet? If your amp draws the current wouldn't it technically be the first 6 feet? After all if your amp is plugged in and not powered on how much current is on the 15 or 20 amp circuit? 

It seems unlikely. Component power supplies are usually built with capacitors lage enough to store power beyond their staedy state demands, and supply power for transients much closer to the output devices than the power cord is.

Eventually frequency is impacted by gauge but not always in a good way.  I would be more concerned with downstream electronics not being able to blow a huge breaker when in distress.  Unless it is some one off like that monster Amp pictured I would not exceed 12 gauge 20 amp service for stereo gear.  For the huge 30 AMP monster AMP I would run dedicated circuit with dedicated breaker.  It already has a 30 AMP NEMA plug to prevent plugging into a standard 110 outlet.

Let’s see  115v or 120v times

15 amps is 1725 to 1800 watts 

your wall outlet voltage might have some

wiggle room 

so yea you need a bigger cable to maximize your audio system 

I suspect the next trick in the evolution of the power cable argument is to cryogenically cool the cables, so they become superconducting. This should separate the physicists from the crowd. Not practical you say? Then the next best thing is to direct wire the power feed to the amps power switch to eliminate any resistance inherent in having a receptacle. Once your amp is open you may observe what gauge wire the factory thought was justified by their engineering staff. I'd be surprised if it was more than 14-gauge wire. 12 gauge would be overkill. Since the concern is really power density, rather than thinking in terms of resistance of the circuit, I would think it would be more appropriate to think in terms of conductance. Since I'm old school the units would be Mhos. Current teaching is Siemans as units. 

ventusaudio Some PC doesn’t make any difference but some do. I am not sure if the owner of the basic audio system can hear the difference.

+1.

ventus Why some PCs are insanely expensive, that’s a different topic.

Because Oganesson is the most scarce material, 1 gram of Oganesson is us$400 trillion even though it is nothing useful.

All PCs sound veiled and glare except my Wavetouch PC. Only my WTPC doesn’t have veil/glare sound in the world (and reproduction audio history). What is the price tag on my WTPC? The small fraction of top AQs, SRs, and Nordosts.

Alex/Wavetouch

The first wire an amp will see it the power cord, if it is a choke point then it will keep the amp from attaining peak performance. Once upon a time I did wire for stereo rooms and made cable. If you do an A/B test with good performing PCs you will find a difference assuming your hearing is good enough. I have used 10 ga exclusively in my system for years. It usually only takes seconds to notice the difference.

Don’t think anyone has mentioned it here yet but most power cords are also designed by construction geometry and materials to do some power conditioning as well.  A few years ago I did my own shoot out including my owed cables from Wireworld, loaners from Nordost (most $) Shunyata, AQ and others hooked up to my c-j monoblocks.  Yes, there’s a difference in SQ.  Price was not a predictor of quality, although I now run AQ Hurricane and some Tornado. All to and from a Shunyata Denali 2  conditioner.  The Nordost dealer was incredulous.  I do use their Valhala 2 speaker cables and love them. Everybody has different gear and hearing so just listen patiently.  Time to flip the vinyl.

Sorry jasonbourne52

but you are wrong. Power cable makes difference. Most audiophiles can hear the sound improvement. Some PC doesn't make any difference but some do. I am not sure if the owner of the basic audio system can hear the difference. Why some PCs are insanely expensive, that's a different topic. 

If you have never tried a aftermarket power cord before, I would recommend getting something something that doesn’t cost too much like a cord from Pangea and try it in your system and see if you can hear an improvement or if you can hear a difference at all. Some systems can hear difference while others not so much, and don’t worry about the gauge as all after market cables are more than sufficient gauge.

I started with Pangea many years ago and I absolutely do hear differences. in my system unfortunately as my pocket book really suffered in the process because my precent power cords do cost a pretty penny. But they brought my system to such a level, you really have to experience it to believe it. I have a full loom of SR Galileo SX power cords in my system. Put back the stock cords and the magic disappears. Yes, my system is very sensitive to changes and power cords do effect my system considerably.

@jumia Oops, sorry mistook ditusa's post showing the Crown amp with dedicated 10AWG cable as yours, so was a bit confused.

My thought regarding your original question on aftermarket 10AWG cable for your amps - 12AWG cable would be more than adequate. More important is the quality of the cable and connectors.

As others here have said - you can build a very good cable, that would be as effective and sound as good or better than some of the high dollar boutique wonders, for a fraction of the money......Jim  

OP,

You are trying to reduce a multi-variable question into a single question. The answer can easily be yes or no… depending. If you have to reduce this to the grade school level… yes, you should have a 10 gauge. But the question is far more complicated than that.

What is in front of it or behind it doesn’t matter. The only question is… if I put this power cord in, will my system sound that much better… more than enough to justify the cost? Most of the time high quality power cords made for amps will be 10 gauge… but the best sounding one might not. 

If the tiny weeny wire in the fuse can handle 10amps, why can't a 14 gauge cable.

As my teeny tiny brain tries to absorb everything in this thread I am left with an additional question.

I use a power conditioner, a transparent power isolator, and I wonder what the internal wire gauge is to the various outlets on the back of this device that I plug into.

To me this seems like a really good spec that no one talks about. Why is this?  Maybe Tucker Carlson can shed some light on this.

I found this an interesting thread. Has anyone else besides me looked in their power amps to see what was the size of the power cable to the on off switch? On my Conrad Johnson Premier 4 it appeared to be #14 wire. The wire to the power transformer was the same. Seems to me if this superlative amp can hit instantaneous crescendos without those puny 14 gauge wires acting as fuses, then perhaps we have an incomplete understanding of the physics/science. I have 12 gauge wire feeding my power and pre-amp both. It has met my standards for excellent sound. 

It's not about having enough power for the speakers. It's about improving on the sonic benefit of a higher gauge Power cord. Mackintosh is a bit narrow viewed on this issue. Very perplexing

This really didn't seem to be a difficult question but I guess it is.

I was just curious if the last few feet make that much of a difference if you use a larger gauge Power cord when using a 10 gauge wire from the panel to the outlet. The bulk of the muscle effort comes off the panel to the outlet I would guess and maybe to extend a 10 gauge to the amplifier is very important.

@jumia 

What speakers are you driving with the commercial series Crown amps? As per their own recommendations, they were designed to be used in music halls and live performance studios, not for a homes living room. Also these were supplied with a 30A plug on a 10AWG  cable, to meet the commercial requirements of that amp.

This whole thing isn't making sense to me.

IMO, adding hospital grade plugs will have a larger sonic impact. I have 2 dedicated 20A lines for my stereo. It turns out that with everything running and playing music, 2 amps, preamp, phono-pre, dac, cdplayer, turntable, draws only 2.4 Amps. So, the 20 Amp circuits were unnecessary. 

@jumia

I’m with @ghdprentice on this one:

"Only when comparing to other cords. This is not a pursuit with absolutes… maybe the desire, but we live in a world of imperfection."

As with many audio pursuits, experimentation is the key to success. Hopefully, you can get your hands on some good examples of premium PCs and give them a listen.

@jumia    No, I said there is no reason to match.  As long as your wires are big enough to comfortably carry the current being drawn.  It's that simple.

I will rephrase the question about the need for a 10 gauge power cable.

Would it be better to have a 10 gauge power cord that plugs into a 10 gauge dedicated circuit outlet?

Most things in this world we don’t really need but many a time it makes things better.

No, you do not.

No.  There is no reason to match.  After all, do you know the gauge of the power line coming from the generating station to your home?   Miles of it.

Just make sure it's heavy enough to comfortably carry the power being drawn by your amps, which figure will be published by the manufacturer.  My uprated Krell KRS200s can draw up to 1.8kW per side.  I use the UK equivalent of 12 gauge from the board and the standard cord supplied by Krell, who may be presumed to know what is required.

OP,

Only when comparing to other cords. This is not a pursuit with absolutes… maybe the desire, but we live in a world of imperfection.

I think Nelson Pass said this although not sure it was his quote originally: "Some of what we can hear cannot be measured & some of what we can measure cannot be heard". Sound reproduction is not an exact science because there are simply too many factors involved, especially the unpredictable interactions / compatibility between various system's components. 

Just listen & see what you enjoy the most. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or says. 

To make it easy I rated everything the best I could doing it very carefully and make it easy as I said the total came to an average of 7.6.

Is that helpful?

I removed the chart from my last post that showed  some dimensions to judge the sound of audio cables. It was not mine and I did not have the authors name to attribute it to, so here are some of the dimensions.

Soundstage, imaging, bass speed, bass,  wait, bass extension, lower range, mid range warmth, upper mid-range presents, upper mid-range refinement, transient attack, mid range body, decay, high frequency extension, sibilance control, tonal accuracy. Rate each on one to 10 scale.

@jasonbourne52 … “Do you really believe that you can hear a difference between the Hurricane vs. the Thunder? A degreed electrical engineer will tell you otherwise! ”

I can hear the difference between a 1 meter and 2 meter Hurricane… as well as all the other power cords I own.

I came up with my own sonic rating scale years ago, but more recently found this one. It helps to systematically evaluate sound quality changes.

Also, you cannot honestly speak for all electrical engineers. I have know hundreds. I can say that most of those that actually sit down and listen to a good system will hear the difference… those just asked may say that is impossible.

No.  Listen to JasonB

@jasonbourne52 … “It is unlikely a 14 gauge power cord is not negatively impacting the sound." That is poor grammar!”

You are correct. I have no idea what I was thinking: It is very likely a 14 gauge power cord is negatively impacting your sound quality. 

@fsonicsmith1 Bad AC perhaps?  The one thing that nothing but an AC Regenerator or top notch power conditioner can help with. This is especially important to consider if you live in a high density population area or are near a commercial zone “dirty” AC  can be a very real problem. 

8th-note

Watt meter is nice but it doesn't in my view accomplish everything you want.

Not sure it measures the extremely high speed changes in Power fluctuations needed for Music.  
Isn't the benefit of larger gauge wires throughout the electrical food chain to avoid any unnecessary impedance when power demands occur?? As tiny and subtle as they may be for all those gentle nuances in sonic transmissions.

I think I have a pretty nice system. Yesterday our internet was out and left with nothing else to do I sat down to listen to my system with my vinyl rigs (what do you streaming-only folks do if your internet goes down?). The first side or two sounded good but then after about an hour I found myself feeling uncomfortable. Something about the sound was annoying me but I could not for the life of me figure out what. I tried listening to different records including some that are known to be good. No change. I turned it off. 

My point, if there is one, is that everything matters. Sometimes you can't figure out what the problem is. It might be you (me). 

Paul McGowan of PS Audio used to sell his own line of power cables until he used a full loom of top-line Audioquest cords. The performance improved to the point that PS now endorses AQ cables and no longer makes their own. @kingharold  You may be having excellent results with your stock cables but that doesn’t mean you might not hear even better results with aftermarket cords. I had aftermarket’s on all of my gear and then I had a Paul Mc type experience with my Shunyata Research NR cables. No going back once I heard my system with them. 
 

one caveat…never use power cables or any other type of aftermarket wires on your system that you can’t afford. 

I have had excellent results using the power cords the manufacturer selected and included in the box with a component.

If you want to geek out on this you can buy a voltage tester and a wattage meter on Amazon and find out some very important information about your setup.

You may have a voltage tester already. Measure the voltage at the outlet where you plug in your amp(s). Hopefully it is 120 volts or higher. You indicate that you used 10 gauge wire which is appropriate for a 30 amp circuit (20 amp circuits use 12 gauge wire). I don't believe you stated if you are using a 30 amp breaker and 30 amp outlets. If you used 10 gauge wire for a 20 amp breaker and outlet that won't hurt anything but you are outside standard electrical practice.

Using heavy gauge wire will reduce the amount of voltage loss over a long distance. If you have a very long run from your panel to your outlet, using 10 gauge would moderate the voltage drop. Please excuse this oversimplified statement but higher voltage allows your equipment to run less hard. You can also test for the voltage drop on the same circuit when you are playing your stereo loud. Hopefully it should be minimal.

A wattage meter will measure the draw of a particular piece of equipment. You plug it into the wall and then plug your component into the meter. With an amp it's particularly instructive because you can see how much wattage the amp is using at different volumes. Now you can quit guessing about the current demand of your amp which will allow you to make a more informed choice about the power cord. I'm assuming that your power cord will be less than 10 feet which will have minimal effect on the voltage drop from the outlet to your amp.

Lastly, there are two issues here that should not get conflated. The gauge of the power cord is important only because it needs to be appropriate for the wattage your amp will draw. It's likely that a 14 gauge cord would be big enough to handle the load your amps are presenting and a 12 gauge cord will give you a comfortable cushion. I'm pretty skeptical that you would hear the difference between a standard 14 gauge cord and a 12 gauge cord but if using the 12 gauge cord makes you more comfortable then go for it.

The design of the power cord is a completely different issue. As has been stated above, there is no universal agreement on whether or not boutique power cords make an audible difference so you have to try it for yourself and see if you can hear a benefit. Knowing your wattage draw is important for this, however, because bigger gauge aftermarket cords cost more money. When you get into the upper end cords this could mean a difference of hundreds (even thousands) of dollars between a 14 gauge cord and a 12 gauge cord.

@jasonbourne52,

👍

The crown amp is 780 watts WPC @ 8Ohms, 1160 @ 4Ohms, with a damping factor of 20,000. See manual in post above.😎

Mike

@61falcon Wrote:

@Ditsua:

What is the current rating on that Crown amp?

Crown says current draw is 23 amps @ 120 volts AC. See manual below, page 33 figure 8.1 Studio Reference I power draw, current draw and thermal dissipation at various duty cycles.

Mike

@ditusa : my apologies after seeing your big Crown amp. How many wpc at 8/4/2 ohms? My Perreaux 2150B does 340/680/920@8/4/2 ohms. I will look and see what gauge power cord is on it. Also I was wondering if the MacIntosh 1000 watt mono amps use a 10 gauge or better cord?

I should have added that every circuit in my home is 20 amp. It was built that way and not something I did as we bought it from the original owners. 

FWIW I built my own power cables using Furutech bulk cable and connectors. You can buy what awg you want as well as shielding. I made mine custom length to each component. I bought cable covering from Amazon and some shrink tubing for the ends. It was fun project. Cost was around $170 per cable. You can buy less expensive connectors if you wish.