Disappointing On Mcintosh......help
Stereo5 right on the money. I’ve never auditioned a Mac before now, and what a revelation. They have detail without being clinical, I can play music load without my ears trying to close up on themselves. My ears don’t cringe, yet the detail is there with no brightness. Soft acoustic music is presented sweetly and with finesse, no hard edge or hash. |
@cleeds The attribution should be to the interpretation. A component amplifies, It does not Do Detail (to use one example from this thread). "It is amazing how much detail a Mac has" The recording is the information. The system (NOT component) as a whole (and room) expresses it. Listener A loves the sound and proclaims it perfect. Listener B hates the sound ("too harsh" / "too clinical"). Listener C finds the system too polite and lacking "detail." The recording, system (and component) and room did not change. The listeners' interpretations are what are different. Also note: I never made any claims regarding "So you can’t claim that the result of any given combination is:" in my post that you responded to. That interpretation is yours. : ) |
Heheh... i own MC1.25 with C1100 fed by Chord Blu+Dave with Giya G2 at the end and the shape of banana smile on my face every time I start music session. No more need for better, no endless chasing, just pleasure from music. You dont like MC’s then find sth else to gain your peace. This is the beauty of the choise we still have. |
Most overrated gear ever made....I live 2.5 hrs from a Mac superstore and I have auditioned their premier 300k + system as well as everything else they make and walked out after 1 song and ran home to my Atma-Sphere / Merlin system..... but I will say one thing about their stuff....the Mac Groupies who like to impress others about how much they spent on their systems love their blue lights....Mac like Wilson speakers is a very sterile un-involving sound IMHO |
Well if this discussion shows anything, it is that people like different sounding systems! But it is quite interesting how McIntosh discussions evoke such passion and opinion. I can think of no other brand which causes such divisiveness. Or brand loyalty...which of course does maintain resale value. For these and many reasons people (my self included) 'want' to like McIntosh. (and yes the tube stuff is quite different from the SS stuff). For me, I chose to go in another direction, and feel my equipment (AudioNet, Auralic and PS Audio) is more resolving and interesting. But I have fought and controlled any 'shrill' or excessive brightness. My Revel speakers are on the smoother side (but much more revealing than the Sonus Faber I have heard). My interconnects are Audience AU24 SX, which are amazing, copper, smooth and revealing. My Classe amp is smooth. PS Audio, is described as 'more analog sounding' by many. But we do appreciate McIntosh; they are a US icon. In an age of buyouts and confusion, they lend stability to our hifi world. Peace! Ken |
Interesting thread. I recently commissioned full restoration of a MX110z, 225, and 240 and will have an opportunity to listen very soon. I have heard MAC tube equipment before, and of course their SS models. I am generally not a fan of most of their SS equipment. C28 sounds ok, 6100 sounds ok....most of the rest did nothing for me. I have not listened to current MAC SS equipment. Anyway, I have a lot vintage and more recent tube equipment on hand and it will be interesting to hear how restored MACs compare. |
There are models of Macintosh intergraded amps that do sound cleaner or crisper then others. My dealer demonstrated both sides. Might have been the MA 5300.. I had the MA6200 for many years and it was recommended that if I liked that warm sound ‘almost tube like’ go with the MA6600, which I did and just love it. It’s such a fine line for me when it comes to more detail at the cost of Listeners fatigue. I spend several hours a day playing music, Cds, tape, and vinyl. Macintosh isn’t for everyone but those of us who are luck enough to own it are sure glad they do. 😎 |
I am really surprised a lot of times by the dumb remarks people make in reference to questions asked. If fact, people reply back many times with information that is not what the posted question is about. My answer to your question is very simple and with common sense. You can not judge McIntosh amps unless you hear them on many different systems. I would guess McIntosh has a certain “house” sound that you should get familiar with to see if that’s for you. I have heard Mac amps many times and when set up correctly, they sound very nice. But it’s important to remember that the hired designers at McIntosh come and go so the “house” sound will change throughout the years. I personally feel that it’s important to purchase from a reputable hifi manufacturing company because it will still have a good resale value in the event it doesn’t work for you. Compared to Parasound, the McIntosh has a much better resale value. I personally have a ton of tube and SS gear but have never owned a Mac amp but I have absolutely no objective in getting one. But I would never want a Parasound in my home. |
I haven't read all replies. Just in case, I want to mention that some Mac amp models sound better than other Mac amp models. I know of recording and mastering engineers in NYC who love the following Mac amp models. - the Mcintosh MC 252 solid state amp- 250 watts per channel (luscious tube-like sounding amp_ without the tube concerns. ideal for a mixer. No longer made. - the Mcintosh MC 275 tube amp -75 watts per channel (their classic tube amp - don't let the 75 watt rating fool you. One powerful, wonderful sounding amp. I recommend you use different tubes than the stock tubes. From the likes of Golden Lion or Penta KT88SC for KT88 tubes. And tubes like vintage Teleflunken tubes for the smaller tubes. - the Mcintosh 7205 five channel solid state amp- sought after also for it's tube like attributes. Has maintained it's value over the years and is quickly bought when it shows up for sale. No longer made. Cheers and enjoy the quest! |
Yes low tubes..........it holds resale value better then most but in actually NO AUDIO EQUIPMENT hold resale value worth a darn only bested by cars and trucks but at times audio holds resale value even worse then cars and trucks and BY DARN when i buy audio equipment I HAVE NEVER ever purchased with that idea In mind ....NEVER ...... i purchase to keep forever to make love to my music with the best sound possible that is why i own 4 pair of Quicksilver TRIODE 6C33C Atma-sphere M60 and Merlin and i will die with all of those that is how impressive they all are ................ and yes I have made mistakes about 250k worth over the last 40+ years but I finally I got smart (possibly even divine intervention) that is why a higher power sent me Quicksilver 6c33c’s ....Merlin....Atma-sphere....DH labs Revelation and Deity..... Hattor and thank god Khozmo to replace all Alps junk and Duelund in everything |
@durkn The Mcintosh C2500 is a perfect match with my VTL 450MKII amps. The C2500 beat out ARC and VTL for a place on my rack. It came down to preferred house sound, options and bang for buck value. One of the deciding factors was the two Phono sections, MC & MM. Huge cost and space saving. Yet, even better is how it brings out the best is all my gear. Note: I've owned various VTL product over the years and love it. I have never owned ARC. |
I mainly look at used gear. I owned the TL-2.5 for a few years. It was just OK or maybe I just wanted a more of a tube sound. My unit has 12AT7 and 12AU7 tubes. Some of the VTL 2.5's had a different tube complement. I heard the VTL TL-5.5 in a shop, impressive. To me it had a tight and controlled presentation. It made me think about the TL-6.5. Never got around to any ARC product. A friend pointed me to Mcintosh, which I'd always felt would be priced out of my reach based resale value/cost. In the end my choice came down to Company Reputation, Cost and Warranty. The Mcintosh C2500 came New In Box with a three year warranty for just under 5 grand. |
Main goal of McI is big power. They use Push Pull mode of tube amps, this mode cause sharp and metal sound, like in more PP brand. PP mode consist in output stage 2 big tubes in two shoulders, upper and down. Signal from preamp fase splitter is divided to 2 /pos. and negat./. Positive goes to upper shoulder and negative - to down shoulder. Every time signal goes from pos. to neg. cross zero, that cause sharp and metal sound. Main + is big power. In mode SE /single end/ signal is not divided and sound is warm!. IMO, I think HiEnd is in mode SE. Power is about 3 - 8 W, but if You use speakers with big sensitivity 94 and more dB, the sound is very loud, and is enough for big rooms, basements.......I listen only SE /my projects/ 2A3RCA, 6S4S, 6P31S, EL11 Telefunken, 300B. I dont like 6L6, EL34 that are used in guitar amps with sharp sound. I advice You look at SE amp and Hi sensitivity speakers. |
@vegasears...…………………………………. Excellent score on the C2500. I paid $4100.00 for mine, used from Audio Classics. If you think it sounds good with the McIntosh branded tubes (JJ), try a pair of the Gold Lion 12AX7 tubes in the line stage. It will take the preamp to another level while retaining the wonderful McIntosh sound. |
Were the Parasound components (removed and replaced) paired up with the exact same source, same speakers, same interconnect and speaker cables, in the exact same room and same location as the Macintosh preamp/amplifier for a true apples-to-apples comparison? |
Vegasears I owned the TL-2.5 for two decades. The early 12AX7 & 6350 tube model. After rolling to the right tubes, it went to having little signature sound & little tube sound. It had more natural uncolored sound. The I upgraded to the TL-5.5 (series 1) After rolling to the right tubes, it went to having no signature sound & no tube sound. After going to reference quality cables, there is no house sound, no coloration, just the open & airy music without bias. I’ve gotten to the place I wanted & glad you have too. |
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I've owned several Mac amps over many years. I've found all to be solidly made and their latest hybrid integrated amps are magic. The Mac 352 paired with Harbeth Super SHL Plus speakers creates sound that beats systems costing thousands of dollars more. Plus Mac gear holds its value, which makes it easy to upgrade without taking a big financial hit. |
I have heard McIntosh with speakers such as Dhalquest long ago and for its day it was impressive. More recently I heard McIntosh with Sonus Farber and the Sonus Farber speakers cost well over $50,000. They were well suited for duplicating the ambience of an outdoor rock performance which when live is amplifier with enormous banks of speakers. But let me join everyone else in encouraging you to go with the sound you like. Don't let any high prestige brand name or exotic theory get away with making you choose something that does not sound as good to you. I design and build my own amplifiers and preamplifiers and many components which are supposed to sound better disappointed me. I tried parafeed to drive the grids on my 833-A's and while it worked, it did not have the full body and detail of regular DC carrying larger step-down transformers to go from 5k to 500 Ohms. The same with a selector switch with 24 pairs bulk metal foil Vishay resistors for volume control which was far outclassed by a cheaper Alps plastic resistor with a wiper. The same in my preamplifier which sounds best by far with a less than glamorous resistor capacitor coupling input. And finally, the same was true for me of speakers. A $1400 pair of Magnepans outclassed every box speaker I ever heard for sounding as clear and like a live performance of an acoustic orchestra and live singers in the opera house I go to.I would consider McIntosh with Magnepans, but I have "outgrown" by my disappointing experiences in life with the luxury status eliciting way of life to be achieved by guests being impressed with the sight of McIntosh, which I think can be very good electronics. I prefer the exhibitionist of my steampunk style amplifiers with quart-sized radio station transmitter tubes complete with proper warning, 1000 Vots stickers on the output transformers. Finally, don't be fooled by cables costing thousands of dollars. The physics they use in their designs is faulty but it takes graduate level training to calculate how their claims calculate not to add up. |
Originally, and now, their claim has been their Transformer Patent, Neutrality, Protection Circuit, Build Quality.
just popped up on Google. https://www.popsci.com/story/technology/mcintosh-amp-factory-photos/ I visited the headquarters and manufacturing/service building last year, holy smokes, this article has no photos of how big it is! Was there to service, then sell my Solid State MC2250 amp; SS C28 Preamp. I went for an old Tube Mcintosh Tuner/Preamp from the 60's, mx110z, I couldn't be happier. .................................. Often you never know the whole chain, weakest link. I just blew a 6sl7 tube (labeled Cayin, source?) in my beloved Integrated Tube Amp (Cayin A88T), and quickly ordered two new matched pairs, Sylvania NOS, .... Then, I searched my random collection of tubes, found a GE, used, strong, put it in the blown channel, wonderful, matched the sound of the other Cayin 6sl7. Found another, and last used GE, they are in there now. New Sylvania's arrived, oh boy! In/ sounded dull, so compressed, no!!! Burnt them in for 3 full days, improved a bit, but still not as musical as the GE's. Brent Jesse has the GE's, NOS, and will take these Sylvanias back. .............................. Point is: If I heard that Cayin amp with those Sylvania tubes, I would have walked away saying negative things about Cayin, meanwhile, with the GE's, I absolutely love it. btw, Cayin came with 6550's, very nice. After a few months, I tried some KT88's. Slight preference for KT88's, What cables were in the chain, ....? Good stuff can be rejected in the store, and great stuff in the store, in your space, your cables, .... can be disappointing. It's work to get it right. |
I Have been a Mac user for over 20 years I have rotated different gear thru my system, and paired assorted gear with the McIntosh gear. Sometimes it sounds great, and sometimes not so great. In the past year have been living with some Manley tube gear. Paired to my MC-352 sounds great. Paired with my Primaluna HP tube amp sounds a little better to my ears. Wider soundstage, and more defined bass. To me the whole reason for entering this hobby was to enjoy the music, and experience different types of gear. Although Mac is good gear, it is not the pinnacle of sound. I’m not going to be parting with my MC-352 anytime soon for now I’m enjoying the sound that I enjoy. |
gavman24 posts02-08-2020 8:43amMacintosh spend a lot on marketing in the US. The designs are too dated and not competitive pricewise outside of the US. Personally i am very suspicious of manufacturers running the old 'buy domestically to demonstrate your patriotism' play. To me that's evidence your products can't compete on their merits. Still, they are popular with the maga crowd. Which tells you plenty And what does conservatism have to do with McIntosh or Audio in general? |
Every brand has its detractors. McIntosh isn't cheap, and it may not be to everyone's liking, but, there are a few things that are hard to dispute. First- they continue to support old products. In 2008 I bought a new front glass- new as in current production new and not new old stock, for a 40 year old tuner. Second, over the long run, McIntosh mains excellent resale value. If someone is a fan of McIntosh sound, it is, in the long run, a very decent buy. |
Mcintosh gear is terrific and a good value. May be the lowest cost of ownership in high end audio. With that being said, I have owned it in the past and may own some in the future but I presently own Audio Research. While it may not be to everyone’s taste, anyone who prefers something else is certainly justified in doing so. Anyone who says it is bad has another agenda. Its like someone who doesn’t like cauliflower telling everyone else it is bad for you. The McIntosh bashing is silly. |
