Directional wires/cables


Is there any reason to support the idea that cables, interconnects or any other kind of wiring can be considered directional? It seems that the theory is that carrying current will alter the molecular structure of the wire. I can't find anything that supports this other than in the case of extreme temperature variation. Cryo seems to be a common treatment for wire nowadays. Extreme heat would do something as well, just nothing favorable. No idea if cryo treatment works but who knows. Back to the question, can using the wires in one direction or another actually affect it's performance? Thanks for any thoughts. I do abide by the arrows when I have them. I "mostly" follow directions but I have pondered over this one every time I hook up  a pair.

billpete

@rodman99999,

Would I be wrong saying nothing, life, would exist without EM waves?

I ran across this video years ago which, to me, says life would not exist.

Electromagnetic waves and the electromagnetic spectrum

(To watch the video X out of the blue box by clicking on the white X upper right hand side of blue box. Then press start.)

Audio frequencies would be to the far left of the electromagnetic spectrum. My understanding because of the audio frequencies EM wavelengths wires are required to guide the EM waves from the source to the load.

What say you?

And or herman?

.

     In the Feynman/QED model: the electron oscillates and generates a virtual photon/particle.

                  Someone mentioned liking to hurt their head?

                                            ENJOY:

https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/virtual-particles-what-are-they/

       Dielectric polarization also comes up in the discussion, toward the conclusion and Feyman diagrams.

                         Still working on those paragraph/typing skills.

@r27y8u92 -

     Here's a rehash, of something I posted in response to a thread entitled, 'Ok, but does your audio gear have rotons (metamaterials)?', back in 2021.

     The skill of paragraphing on this site had eluded me, at the time.

                         The following should be an easier read.

     Don't take anything toward the end of the post personally, as it was in response to a genuine dolt, back then.

           Back in 1927 Vienna, at the fifth Solvay Conference on Physics, some of the greatest minds on the planet (ie: Einstein, Bohr, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Curie, etc) got together to discuss things like photons and electrons.   

            Arguments quickly ensued between those that wanted the universe to make sense, based on classical Physics and/or Relativity and those that were theorizing about quanta (packets of energy) and how so many things, observed in their experiments and in their theorems, based on such as Planck's Constant and Heisenberg's Uncertainty, seemed irrational. 

            Every day: Einstein would come up with an objection, as to why such must be in error and by evening: Bohr would have an answer.   

            As an example: Wave-Particle Duality.      Einstein wanted electrons to just be solid particles, all the time.    Bohr asserted that they existed as fuzzy/indistinct waves, with no particular position.   Only a multitude of possibilities, until observed or detected, at which time, they become particles.  

             Einstein replied, "So, you're telling me the moon doesn't exist, until I look at it?"   

             Anyway, that's a miniscule, much simplified slice of what took place then.               

             What followed that conference, is a matter of history and experimentation.   

                                                        Some proved Einstein's assertions. 
                                                                      Others: Bohrs    

              Probably: the resultant inventions that are most notable, whether you believe them to be evil or not, were the Atomic and Hydrogen Bombs.  

                                                    Obviously: Quantum Mechanics works.   

               One of the arguments, of which I was most interested, back in the 60's, while studying Physics, was that of Entanglement (if a photon or electron are split into two entities, each when detected/observed, will exhibit identical properties (spin), whether across the room, or across the universe.    Einstein called it, "spooky action at a distance".  

                To make it fit with Relativity, his universal speed limit (speed of light) and make any sense, at all: he postulated that when a photon is split in two, both (at the source) already have those properties determined.     

                 Quantum Mechanics stated they exist as wave functions and don't exhibit any properties until observed/detected, at which point the information is instantaneously communicated (again: regardless of distance).      

                 No one had a theorem, by which to test that, until a guy named Bell (who I believe to have actually been ambivalent about the whole thing) came up with one.   He lacked the means by which to test his math, however.     

                 Then: a couple guys at Berkley, California cobbled some equipment together and proved the Quantum Mechanics view correct, using Bell's theorem.    

                 You can deny the facts, until you're blue in the face, BUT: without what's been gleaned from the study of Quantum Mechanics: we wouldn't have a few of the inventions that, I'll just bet, most of you have in your homes.  ie: LASERs, GPS, anything digital (computers, cellphones, smartphones), semiconductors (ie: diodes, transistors, ICs, etc), the electron microscope, and MRI (well... maybe those two: not in your home).  

                                                             The list could go on.     

                  Then, there's Nicola Tesla.   Make fun (if you will) regarding his belief in Quantum Mechanics, but he's to be thanked for the AC you're enjoying, in your home.     His inventions and genius* took the likes of you Deny'intologists, kicking and screaming, into the Twentieth Century.   

                   *ie:  Ever heard of the Niagara Falls Power Project?

       My point always is (refer to my prior posts): no one has all the answers, yet! 

                                                      Happy listening!                                   

 

 

“..the label aligns with the flow of electrons” electrons in cable move only for DC connection! All audio signals’ are AC, thus electrons are only shaking both ways, and generate EM wave moving from source to load! Not absorbed EM wave in impedance mismatched signaling schemes, such as “RCA <=> high input impedance and low output driver impedance”, creates reflections, thus time domain signal distortions.

Several of my cables are directional, and although I cannot hear the difference, I follow the instructed direction. For unmarked cables, I use an ad-hoc approach, ensuring that the label aligns with the flow of electrons. I believe in it—why not? It’s doing something in the background, and the cumulative effect might surprise you, right? Even if it’s snake oil, there’s no harm, right?

“..could have been pre broken in.  Break in is real.” no proof statement again.. yes, there is aging processes in any device s involved in sound amplification and transmission, pareto is in tubes/SS/Dig not wires. cables exposed to aging as well, but, aging makes wires performance degradation with time, due to dielectric hardening and resistance of wires increase.. connectors have own life in this process, and depend on both interconnected sides design, finishing / plating / terminating issues. 

cable can have directionality if cable is unsymmetrical in mechanical or electrical sense, such as having additional filter clamps, special optimized connectors different on two sides, or different cable prep. 

 

 STILL a topic in 2025?

The most impressive thing about this thread is the number of responses in a relatively short time span.

Carry on.

Fun read while I enjoy my fresh ground dark roast listening to newly acquired music from the used bins at my local store.

 

  

@r27y8u92 

I like this quote from Ralph Morrison.

If we accept the idea that fields carry energy in space, it must be true at all frequencies. That is the law. If it is true for light, it must also be true for 60Hz power and at DC. For utility power, the energy travels in the space between conductors, not in the conductors. This is not the picture presented by circuit diagrams, where energy seems to be carried by conductors. In digital circuits, the signals and energy travel in the spaces between traces or between traces and conducting surfaces.

Buildings have halls and walls. People move in the halls, not the walls. Circuits have traces and spaces. Signals and energy move in the spaces, not in the traces.

.

mgrif104: could have been pre broken in.  Break in is real.

Think of recharable battery memory as another variant.  You have electrons ;moving around a system.  Electrons are the basis of chemical reactions, so by using electricity there is going to subtle chemical changes to your wires.

From my own experiments (the benefit of having more than one good system in my house), once you break in a cable, remove it, then place it on the exact same system, it tends to stay broken in.  Change the cable to another system, you need to go through the break in process from close to squrre one, but it never seems to go back to the point that a brand new cable goes to.

I have a hypothesis on this.  No cable's metal is free of impurities.  Talking to cable manufacturers, control of impurities is very important for consistancy and final quality of audio cables.  There may be some subtle chemical reactions going on between the metal and the components.  You could see how inductance, discussed in my previous post, would change and the interaction between contaminates, the metal component, and also other metals if the cable is a hybrid of say, copper and silver.

There will always be directionality in a wire.  That is the nature of packing on an extruded wire.  It may be very slight in the case of the wires that you are using.  So slight that it isn't material on your particular setup.

I really enjoyed your comment.

It is amazing how people ignore facts, and go on what they think is right no matter what.

My favorite foolish statement this time around in this was when someone stated that if electrons went through metal, they would all build up at one end of the cable.  Utter lack of understanding how electricity flows through a conductive metal (not a problem), then insisting that this was a fact (problem).

The easist way for your own benefit is simply test for yourself.  Cables are always directionally marked, so reverse them.  If you don't hear a difference, it doesn't matter to you.  The only way that you would fool yourself on this would be if you are using lampchords or some other electrical wire.  They aren't marked in what direction that they are extruded, since that detail wouldn't matter for a AC circuit.

Though in reality, cables are directional.  It is a basic scientific fact (not theory).  The extrusion process creates variation in the way that the metal molicules pack.  As the electrons migrate down the wire, the packing variation affects the movement from one end of the wire to the other.  This property is called inductance.

From Wikipedia: Inductance is the tendency of an electrical conductor to oppose a change in the electric current flowing through it. The electric current produces a magnetic field around the conductor. The magnetic field strength depends on the magnitude of the electric current, and therefore follows any changes in the magnitude of the current. From Faraday's law of induction, any change in magnetic field through a circuit induces an electromotive force (EMF) (voltage) in the conductors, a process known as electromagnetic induction. This induced voltage created by the changing current has the effect of opposing the change in current. This is stated by Lenz's law, and the voltage is called back EMF.

There is more going on than just inductance.  But that is the biggest effect and easist to understand.

By training, I was a physical chemist.  I did extensive training and study of the packing of molecules.

But unless you insist on being stubornly stupid, don't feel bad.  I even had to explain this to electrical engineers,  Unless they worked creating audio or video devices, they were unfamilar with the importance of these effects on audio or video equipment.

I remember having a friend over, and he insisted it didn't matter.  At the time he did not have very good stereo equipment at home.  I reversed the leads on one of my systems, then reversed them back.  He looked at me and stated it does matter.

When he bought better equipment and retested directionality himself, he reproduced the effect.

From science, inductance is real, and inductance affects the pathway of electrons through a conductive material.  The packing of the molicules will change inductance.  Stereo equipment is DC, which is a directional current.  Therefore innductance is different in either direction using the same wire.  It is a fact on packing variance.

I’ll add my $.02 of observation - about all it’s worth. I won’t profess to understand why or explain how as I’m a finance guy (retired) and realize the limitations of my background in this area.

I auditioned some TOTL speaker cables - in a line whose “house sound” I am well acquainted with. The dealer didn’t have them in stock so he had his distributor ship them to me. I didn’t like them as they weren’t an improvement over the brand’s model I had in system. The dealer was really surprised and we discovered in talking that the distributor sent me a fresh pair that had never been used. Dealer was frustrated and got a set that had been played in which resulted in a different experience. No - not night and day as the general sonic signature was the same, but there was an ease to the sound that was missing before. Cable break in is fairly well documented.

If cable “break in” is a thing, then is it not possible that they break in directionally? Again - not a physicist. But it made me aware of the potential.

It would not surprise me that some cable types and topologies exhibit this effect to more than others. I’ve since moved on, but used Silversmith Fideliums (superior performance/value at their price range) speaker cables for several years. No dialectric, floating ground, or direction indicated. I can imagine those being somewhat or even entirely immune to the effects of directionality. Indeed, I did not experience them breaking in over time though they may very well have. I can only confirm they were good out of the box. But Nordost and AQ are clear in indicating direction and their topology is markedly different. And I did experience break in with Nordost. On my Matthew Bond speaker cables, they did improve with time (could be my imagination) but the effect was less pronounced than with Nordost (pretty sure it wasn’t my imagination).

My local dealer then relayed a story about another audiophile customer of his who is a professor of biomedical engineering (I believe - might have the discipline wrong - but science related) who does work in the medical imaging field. That customer relayed to him the need for cable break in on their sensitive imaging devices. He said the quality of the image is notably better after the cables have settled in for several weeks. The dealer relayed that story to me after my experience - so it was not “expectation or confirmation bias” that I was exhibiting. It was data confirming what I had already heard.

As always YMMV - particularly given the remarkable variations in cable chemistry, topology and technology employed. Interesting discussion.

  

More talk about "Electron move/flow"

Wikipedia explains Einstein's Phoelectric Effect consisely like this:

The photoelectric effect is the emission of electrons from a material caused by electromagnetic radiation such as ultraviolet light.

I did not say electron flow. Actually electrons does not flow in the audio cases.

I said energy transfer. Transfer is not same word as "flow".

In some cases, the electrons actually, really flow. Einstein's Nobel paper is not of the relativity theory, but electron flow effect in vacuum tube!

 

r27y8u92, everyone here is talking about the same energy. They may not know that, but it is all the same form of energy.  The problem is, some, like you,  just don't understand what they are talking about. Sorry, but I don't know of a nicer way to say that.

In a stereo system, it is energy in the form of an electromagnetic wave that follows a wire from one point to another. It is NOT a flow of electrons. That same energy can flow through a vacuum which pretty much proves it is not carried by, or caused by, or causes a flow of electrons. 

You can find all sorts of sites that say that it is the flow of electrons, but they are wrong. You can either educate yourself and accept the truth or continue to believe something that isn't true.. up to you.. I can't help you any further.

 

I said ELECTRICAL energy transfer, especially through the wires, not all form of energy transfer!

Read carefully!

a lot of misinformation here backed up by sites that have misinformation. Basic physic classes sometimes use the electron flow model as a simple way to explain things, but they are simply wrong.

The AC signal that is transferring energy from the source to the load (amp to speaker for example) is NOT doing so by moving electrons from the source to the load. Electrons are NOT flowing down the wire like water through a hose.

Think about it..

The energy will flow through a capacitor which has an insulator in the middle of it. How do the electrons flow through an insulator? 

The energy can travel through a vacuum where there are no electrons, think radio waves.

High frequency AC  waves are commonly sent down tubes called waveguides which are hollow = no conductor = no electrons. 

 

 

 

 

Electrical energy movement (120V power to home, audio power to speakers, etc) is just energy transfer by electrons inside the metal wires! Really not matter with any structure of the matals in the wires! 

Please, do not incline to the non-scientific rationale of the BS manufacturers. If you have not studied chemistry, it is very easy for you to listen and believe the non-scientific retionales. I am a PhD of chemistry (retired). I did research to find molecular structure of organic componds using very expensive analytical instruments. It is very sad for not-science-oriented people to spend money for the expensive audio wires! I really hate the manufacturers of the BS stuff.  

jeffbij +1

Glad to see a rational, informed posting here. I mean, "sentiency"??

Yes, I’m sure you’re absolutely correct in stating that grain structure has a lot to do with directionality. I once had a long conversation on the topic with a figure no less formidable than Garth Powell (the brilliant enginner who designed Audioquest’s Niagara power-conditioning line, among other things) and he went into the physics of grain directionality in great depth. I have a degree in Physics myself, so this was far from an exercise in hand-waving. Garth made sense, and although there’s no way to measure the effect quantitatively in a particular cable product, the physical phenomenon undoubtedly does exist in cables that have certain manufacturing steps -- like Audioquest's directional cables. I walked away from that discussion thoroughly convinced -- and I’m not an easy person to bamboozle when it comes to voodoo engineering.

Related: Someday, maybe I’ll post a thread about my experience deciphering the design details of Synergistic’s HFT products, those bizarre little shirt-button-sized bits of metal that, when pasted around your listening room, are supposed to improve transparency and imaging. Now, THAT’s an interesting story.

 

@stevencason Agreed. A floating shield is usually totally floating ie. not grounded at either end (just a terminolgy/interpretation thing I guess), and in this case I can’t see why direction of installation would matter.

A single-end-grounded cable might sound different if installed a different way round because of where any RFI noise picked up by the shield drains to. To my mind and in my experience, this is the only directionality which matters. I’ve never understood or experienced directionality in the conductors themselves.

My thinking is a cable can only be directional if it uses a floating ground.  The floating end should be connected to the receiving component.

 

It is a type of rf shield.

Well, I sure didn't mean to stir up such a hornet's nest but there has been a good amount of discussion and information to be read. 

I watched a video with Gene DellaSala and John Siau and what their thoughts were on the subject. They put far less importance on it than many others seem to. In the big picture, it does seem to be way down the line from other factors. I think this is fair as well. Once a person has every other aspect covered from TT (cartridge and all), DAC, CD player, whatever source you listen to, your ultimate power source, preamp, amp, down to the speakers, then maybe it's time to start tweaking with better wiring, power supplies etc. There is always something we can do to improve our system, so it seems. They don't suggest that you go out and buy the cheapest wire and cables that you can find either and I don't. 

Anyway, I'm moving on. Many thanks for all the insight. 

Bill

I might of missed reading a post on this thread but wanted to put in my two cents, just in case:)

 

I have made all my interconnects for around 40 years now. In the last 25+ I have only used Conare Star Quad which is dual twisted pair high grade microphone cable. One pair to the center contact, one pair to ground. Braided shield to ground on the input end, cut off and tucked carefully under the jacket at the receiving end. Silver solder, good connectors.

 

I have also used it for balanced cables.

 

Either way they are superb and I have never felt the need to go to any more costly cables even in what would be in today's dollars close to a $40k in gear alone for my highest end car audio competition build. ZERO noise, totally black background, very dynamic and ran as high as 20v balanced signals through them, 4+ volts single ended.

 

Rick.

 

 

 

 

@mclinnguy Said:   

I would interpret "immediately" to mean small fractions of a second after flipping the switch, after the energy in the lines has completely been absorbed by the load.

I think the answer is instantly. The switch is opened, Games over.

.

Just questioning the "one way direction" of energy in an alternating current conductor, but that’s fine.

Not sure what you mean. The ac signal energy does not travel inside the conductor. It flows in the spaces between the conductors. The conductors are a guide for the ac energy to flow from the source to the load in the form of  electromagnet waves.

As for the electric charge, current, in the wire it is not moving back and from the source to the load. It is vibrating +  -  or  -  + hardly moving at all.

I'm sure @rodman99999 could explain it better than me though.

.

 

Much simpler to try both directions yourself than to try to understand the elusive reasons why

Absolutely @kennyc

Some of us just like to hurt our brains every once in a while.

I recall reading that Jay, the proprietor of Audio Bacon website, was reviewing the Snake River Audio Boomslang digital cable a few years back. After talking with the cable’s designer for follow-up information he found out that he actually had it in backwards- he didn’t know it was directional- and he definitely heard a difference putting it in the "right" direction, but he actually preferred the sound of it "backwards".

So much rhetoric.

Much simpler to try both directions yourself than to try to understand the elusive reasons why

If it's designed directional, it should have arrows on it. It's that simple.

If the vendor claims it is directional and does not indicate the correct direction, that's a clear design defect and I would find another vendor.

 

What happens when you flip off a light switch? Light goes off immediately.

I would interpret "immediately" to mean small fractions of a second after flipping the switch, after the energy in the lines has completely been absorbed by the load.

Just questioning the "one way direction" of energy in an alternating current conductor, but that’s fine.

I completely botched it up... not @jea48, but rather @mclinnguy....

I'm going to shut up now...

jea48....  I was making a bad joke about the question you raised....

"If the speakers were 3251 kilometres away would there be no signal- would the energy simply stop and turn back the other direction, and one would hear no sound from the speaker?"

 

@jea48

The Energy travels from the source >>> to the load (in one direction)

Okay, I got a simpler question, what if the load is disconnected before the energy gets there, what happens to that energy?

It breaks the circuit. No circuit, no energy transfer, flow.

What happens when you flip off a light switch? Light goes off immediately.

This may help you understand what’s going on.

https://www.vicphysics.org/documents/teachers/2002Sefton.pdf

http://amasci.com/miscon/eleca.html#cflow

http://amasci.com/elect/poynt/poynt.html

http://amasci.com/miscon/elect.html

 

@jea48

The Energy travels from the source >>> to the load (in one direction)

Okay, I got a simpler question, what if the load is disconnected before the energy gets there, what happens to that energy?

@mclinnguy Said:

For my own curiosity wondering how far the "signal" would go: From what I gather this "signal" travels in this medium at a rate of 0.7c, or about 195,000 km per second, so at 60Hz every 0.0167 seconds the energy wave can travel 3250 kilometres before changing directions.

To be clear here guys, I do not have a degree in Physics.

The energy doesn’t change direction. The Energy travels from the source >>> to the load (in one direction) >>> at near the speed of light in a vacuum. I have read in real time around 50% to 70% of the speed of light.

.

If the speakers were 3251 kilometers away would there be no signal- would the energy simply stop and turn back the other direction, and one would hear no sound from the speaker?

That’s a tough one.LOL, Not sure exactly what you are asking.

I doubt if @rodman99999 could answer it. He has a degree in Physics.

Are you talking about using a pair of wires? Need more info... If wires you are going to need thick conductors and step up the output signal voltage. You are talking over 2000 miles.

I have never heard of energy returning to the source... Current does in a closed circuit. Current travels (slower than cold maple syrup) from the source through the load back to the source. Current is not consumed by a connected load. The energy is what makes the Light bulb light. Not the current.

.

@jea48

These types of technical discussions seem to be about: What is known and can be measured vs what is yet to be known and has not yet been measured.

This reminds me of the America’s Cup Race in 1983 where Alan Bond’s Australia II snatched the America’s Cup away from Dennis Connor’s Liberty.

At his disposal, Dennis Connor had a phalanx of physicists, engineers and naval architects – as well as the full use of the U.S. Navy’s science labs for testing and measuring hull shapes and designs.

On the other hand, Alan Bond had just one guy, Ben Lexcen. And Ben outsmarted them all.

With his out-of-the box thinking, he discovered new insights into fluid dynamics. He single-handedly improved upon centuries-old nautical hull designs with his winged keel. His innovation can now be measured. Decades later, this technology has led to super-fast hydrofoil racing designs.

“Untold: The Race of the Century” is fantastic documentary about this thrilling sailboat race. It’s on Netflix.

_ _ _

As a life-long sailor, it wouldn’t be surprising to me if electrical waves have similarities to other types of waves found in aerodynamics and/or hydrodynamics. As a kayaker, it also wouldn’t be surprising to me if dielectrics in cables have similarities to the rocky riverbed in white-water rafting.

@jeffbij 

Does that mean if Jimmy Page plays a cord on his guitar in LA that they can't hear it in NYC.   

No, he is in London. laugh

@jea48 , honestly, I don’t remember, it was 50 years ago.  I would say through the wire.  I don’t know if it was even covered.  I always took it as a given the signal goes through the wire.  I think at the time, Monster Cable had just debuted.  I was using Mogami speaker wire at the time because a friend who worked for the telephone company got his hands on some.  

@jeffbij said:

But @jea48, your last paragraph just made my brain explode.  Does that mean if Jimmy Page plays a cord on his guitar in LA that they can't hear it in NYC.   LOL

You referring to this?

I don’t know why cables are directional. I just know some are.

I have a pair of Clear Day Cables solid silver conductor non shielded single ended RCA interconnects that are definitely directional. Hands down...

???

You might say that I started some of this discussion with my own misconceptions in regards to AC power flow, for which now I stand corrected and beg forgiveness.  

It has been a learning experience for me.

But @jea48, your last paragraph just made my brain explode.  Does that mean if Jimmy Page plays a cord on his guitar in LA that they can't hear it in NYC.   LOL

 

- Jeff

@jea48

Ok, I was just pointing out that Inakustik essentially do not use a dielectric on their wire.

I watched the video on cable directionality. The guy thinks the signal travels back and forth in the wire. It doesn’t. If it did then cheap PVC insulation would be all that is needed for the dielectric used to cover the bare wire.

I don’t know exactly where to go with that, but:

We do know the electromagnetic wave is carried from amplifier to speaker via an alternating current. If this energy wave is what we call the "signal" does it not change directions 120 times per second, otherwise known as 60Hz in North America? It is also more recently been hypothesized (proven?) that the actual electrons only travel a few centimetres.

For my own curiosity wondering how far the "signal" would go: From what I gather this "signal" travels in this medium at a rate of 0.7c, or about 195,000 km per second, so at 60Hz every 0.0167 seconds the energy wave can travel 3250 kilometres before changing directions. Obviously our speaker cables are not that long, and there are huge losses over such distances, but ignoring this, here is a question that just popped into my head: If the speakers were 3251 kilometres away would there be no signal- would the energy simply stop and turn back the other direction, and one would hear no sound from the speaker?

@mclinnguy

I watched the video on cable directionality. The guy thinks the signal travels back and forth in the wire. It doesn’t. If it did then cheap PVC insulation would be all that is needed for the dielectric used to cover the bare wire.

 

This post From an Agon member.

 

The speaker transducer moves forward and backward according to EMF acting on the voice coil - see Faraday’s law and Maxwells equations - so both +ve and -ve current direction along the speaker wire causes transducer movement.

Response from an Agon member that taught this stuff, at the associate degree level..

Again, it has nothing to do with we commonly call "current" which most visualize as electrons flowing back and forth. It simply doesn’t work that way. There is an electro-magnetic wave that transfers energy to the coil of the speaker. If applied to a resistor it creates heat. If applied to an inductor (coil) it creates a constantly changing magnetic field which pushes and pulls against a fixed magnet creating motion. Those stuck in a world of flowing electrons are just that, stuck there. Energy flows, electrons do not.

.

I don’t know why cables are directional. I just know some are.

I have a pair of Clear Day Cables solid silver conductor non shielded single ended RCA interconnects that are definitely directional. Hands down...

 

AA members that actually built there own cables and the problems they ran into.Lots of posts on cables on AA Cable asylum.

This is just one of many.

https://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=cables&n=12332&highlight=rcrump+wire+direction

..

 

@samureyex -

That is Science.   If you think what you know is absolute, you are betraying Science on a fundamental level.

                                                   +1

                                    As I've often mentioned:

     Feynman was and will remain, my favorite lecturer (yeah: I'm that old).

     He mentioned often (and: I took to heart) his favorite Rule of Life: "Never stop learning!"

     For all his genius, he never grew overly confident in his beliefs.    The perfect obverse to the Dunning-Kruger sufferer.

     ie:  “I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing.  I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing, than to have answers that might be wrong.”

     and: “I have approximate answers, and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything.”

@rodman99999,

Thanks.

Were it the DC voltage/current, from an amp's power supply, modulated by the amp's output devices, into an amplified musical signal; it would appear much more complex, but: still a sinusoidal wave.

                      *outside the dielectric, in the discussed model

Complex is an understatement.

I can't understand how anyone could think the signal could travel back and forth in the wire.

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That voltage potential exists, outside of a hot AC lead's conductor/cabling, even without a closed circuit, is why a non-contact voltage detector can work.

The electric field around the wire.

Without the electric field around the wire a non-contact voltage detector Couldn't work A closed circuit is not needed either.

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@jea48

I believe that’s why Teflon, for one, is used instead of cheap PVC insulation.

Other than a vacuum, the best dielectric is air: Check out the construction of Inakustik and their very transparent communications regarding audio cable construction. They even have webinars to signup for free to further people’s understanding.

 

https://in-akustik.com/blog/how-to-improve-hifi-sound-quality

 

Scroll down to see their video explanation on directionality:

https://in-akustik.com/cosmos/know-how/faqs-hifi-cables/

 

@jea48 -

Does the green arrows represent the signal traveling from the source to the load through the dielectric insulation?

Is the EM wave the signal, or does the EM carry the signal? Or is the signal embedded in the EM wave?

  

         I'm certain you've seen a 60Hz AC trace on an O-scope.

         As you're aware: that's (basically) a picture/capture of a 60Hz, sinusoidal electrical wave and what's being driven, when combined with its corresponding magnetic wave (resulting in Poynting vector's direction) from source to load*.

         Were it the DC voltage/current, from an amp's power supply, modulated by the amp's output devices, into an amplified musical signal; it would appear much more complex, but: still a sinusoidal wave.

                      *outside the dielectric, in the discussed model

          That voltage potential exists, outside of a hot AC lead's conductor/cabling, even without a closed circuit, is why a non-contact voltage detector can work.

                                    Hope some of that helps.

                                           Happy listening!

@jea48  Thanks a lot for posting the results from that article.  As per my previous post I inadvertently installed my digital cable backwards once and my system literally sounded broken until I figured it out and installed it correctly.  It was not subtle at all, but until now I hadn’t seen anything that explained technically why I clearly heard what I did.  Those who poo poo the directionality of cables can go pound sand.  It’s a real thing. 

I’ve referenced this I don’t know many times over the years. The article is from 1993. Old yes. Wires have been around a lot longer than that.

Actual measurements for those that say, "If it can’t be measured then it can’t be true."

After measuring the first two products (the PS Lambda and the Panasonic SV-3700), I went back and repeated my measurements to make sure the analyzer was giving consistent results, and that my test setup was correct. When I remeasured the SV-3700, I got about half the jitter than when I first measured it!

What caused this reduction in measured jitter?

Changing the direction of the digital interconnect between the transport and the jitter analyzer.

This phenomenon was easily repeatable: put the cable in one direction and read the RMS jitter voltage, then reverse the cable direction and watch the RMS jitter voltage drop. Although I’d heard differences in digital-cable directionality, I was surprised the difference in jitter was so easily measurable—and that the jitter difference was nearly double.

To confirm this phenomenon, I repeated the test five times each on three different digital interconnects. One was a generic audio cable, the other two were Mod Squad Wonder Link and Aural Symphonics Digital Standard, both highly regarded cables specifically designed for digital transmission. The generic cable wasn’t directional: it produced the same high jitter in either direction. But both the Wonder Link and the Aural Symphonics had lower jitter levels overall, but different jitter levels depending on their direction. Moreover, the generic cable had higher jitter than either of the two premium cables—even in the latters’ "high-jitter" direction.

Fig.8 shows the jitter difference between cable direction in Wonder Link using the Panasonic ’3700 as the source (the difference was about the same in the Aural Symphonics). Note that, at these high levels, small differences in the trace are significant. Between "10m" and "0.1" on the vertical scale, each horizontal division is 100ps. The overall RMS jitter was 4050ps with the Wonder Link connected in one direction, and 2700ps with the cable reversed.

https://www.stereophile.com/features/368/index.html

JMHO, there can’t be an honest discussion of cable directionality if one believes the signal travels back and forth from the source to the load. Especially at near the speed of light in a vacuum.

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The only bit of cable directionality I believe in is the shielding.

Shields should be connected to ground at the active end, which is the source. Hence shielded IC’s should have an arrow pointing from the source to the destination.

If you are using a shielded cable, then noise performance will be better when this is adhered to. Otherwise, no. Makes no difference at all.

Most homes aren’t near enough sources of noise for this to matter either way, but if you are, then pay attention to the direction.

Of course, this applies only to 2 conductor + shield wires.  If your shield is the ground, then its' the same either way.

I first learned how electricity works here on Agon in 2010. Oddly the thread was titled "directional cables?".

laugh

Wow, all this technobabble is giving me a splitting headache.  I received my EE in 1976.

@stereo5 

Were you taught the signal travels in the wire or travels in the spaces between the wires?

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