Awww screw it, talk Tekton if you want. No need to take them out if they are an answer to this question!
Diminishing Returns
I know the point of diminishing returns is different for everyone, probably dependent on their inclme, how much importance they place on the stereo, and to exactly what sound they will be happy with.
In these times (not pandemic but rather trickle down tech) where I feel like you are able to get more for your money, what price point do you feel you need to be at to achieve audio nirvana?
I was researching the absolute least expensive speakers and found that the Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2, the Wharfedale Diamond 225, Triangle Borea BR03 are a few that get excellent reviews and can be had for around $500 or less and it got me thinking...
At $1000 the Whatfedale Evo 4.2 looks very compelling (I loved the Evo 4.4 at RMAF last year)...
At $2000 there seems to be some seriously stiff completion...
Just a fun discussion regarding what you think are outstanding deals sound wise, what the speakers are and how much they cost. No “well such is $10,000 and it competes with $100,000 speakers”. I’m talking for the average person who isn’t making $100,000 a year. I’m talking $5,000 or less, less is better, much better. I understand that for some, $5,000 speakers are like $500 speakers to others, no need to point out the obvious.
What I do want to know is speakers that you feel punch waaay above their price point and at what price (the lower The better) you feel like diminishing returns comes into play. Also, lets try not to make this a Tekton DI conversation because it looks like they are the answer to this question at $3500; lets get some others in here that we may not know about.
If this thread sounds dumb to you, sorry, and just move on please!
Another one in question for me would be the SB Acoustics Satori Ara kit...
In these times (not pandemic but rather trickle down tech) where I feel like you are able to get more for your money, what price point do you feel you need to be at to achieve audio nirvana?
I was researching the absolute least expensive speakers and found that the Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2, the Wharfedale Diamond 225, Triangle Borea BR03 are a few that get excellent reviews and can be had for around $500 or less and it got me thinking...
At $1000 the Whatfedale Evo 4.2 looks very compelling (I loved the Evo 4.4 at RMAF last year)...
At $2000 there seems to be some seriously stiff completion...
Just a fun discussion regarding what you think are outstanding deals sound wise, what the speakers are and how much they cost. No “well such is $10,000 and it competes with $100,000 speakers”. I’m talking for the average person who isn’t making $100,000 a year. I’m talking $5,000 or less, less is better, much better. I understand that for some, $5,000 speakers are like $500 speakers to others, no need to point out the obvious.
What I do want to know is speakers that you feel punch waaay above their price point and at what price (the lower The better) you feel like diminishing returns comes into play. Also, lets try not to make this a Tekton DI conversation because it looks like they are the answer to this question at $3500; lets get some others in here that we may not know about.
If this thread sounds dumb to you, sorry, and just move on please!
Another one in question for me would be the SB Acoustics Satori Ara kit...
73 responses Add your response
@ I was researching the 80th anniversary which looked appealing as well. I will look into the 85th as well! @bdp24 , I will research GR Research also! Thanks for the tip. That is one diy site I have not looked into. Their little Avanti speaker looks like something to research also! Thanks again for the tip 👍 |
If you bring used into the discussion..... I purchased my 2006 Vandersteen 2Ce Signature I’s for $575.00 (actually gave the person $600 because he met me half way for a pick-up). I think you would be hard pressed to get any other speaker the quality of the 2CE’s Sig I’s for that little. Most I’ve seen are going for $700-1,000. So I think I got a pretty good deal considering they were in great condition, but IMO, could be a good deal at those prices too. |
At under $5,000, you'd be hard pressed to best the Rosso Fiorentino Elba 2. Francesco made massive improvements from the gen 1. Zero Fidelity and SoundAdvocate have both published reviews on it. At the bottom of the barrel so to speak, the Polk T50 is an underrated performer that does a lot right and is extremely easy to place. The same can be said of the LSiM series when they were routinely on sale for half off MSRP. At full retail they weren't anything special, but cutting that in half made them punch extremely well for the money. |
@bdp24 +1. GR Research has a lot of designs that aren't on their website. Send Danny Ritchie an email or give him a call to discuss what you are looking for. Or spend some time perusing the GR-Research forum on Audio Circle. From a few hundred dollars to over $10K, if you have the inclination to put in some sweat equity, you'll get a speaker system that delivers incredible value. |
Take a serious look at Raven Audio CeLest Tower Speaker. Simply wonderful https://www.ravenaudio.com/product/celest-tower-audiophile-speakers/ I have a pair and just love them I have had KEF, Klipsch, Sonus Faber (still have Olymipica I in the bedroom system). 45 day trial period so you have nothing to lose and free shipping using the Part Time Audiophile cupon. |
At the low end, I bought a pair of Emotiva B1s for I think $200 on closeout and now they have improved B1+ at $229/pr. I thought with the folded ribbon tweeters they sound really nice. Gave them to a friend to upgrade a cheap mid-fi system. They are very happy. The more expensive floorstanders maybe the T1s ($699) were favorably reviewed in Stereophile. After owner a couple pair of lower end Paradigms ($400-$600/pr), I would rather listen to the Emotivas. |
I'm going against the grain and recommend the Fritz Carbon 7 mk ll at $2,500 which with 35 -20hz and 87db with the right system has always pushed its weight above most speakers at its price range. Just type in Fritz speakers in Google, the quality of the craftsmanship and accolades from professional audiophiles speaks volumes. I look forward to anyone bringing forth a better quality speaker for this money that pushes WAY above its weight. |
Never mind the wharfedale 4.2’s....save your money and grab a pair of the wharfedale diamond 225’s (usually $449) now only $299 at music direct!. They won both the Stereophile and Absolute Sound product of the year award a few years back and are still available. I own them and they punch way above their price, as you say...the midrange will be better than the 4.2’s. Read the part time audiophile review on the 4.2’s....he mentioned some things concerning the midrange, which I did not like. The bass on the 225 will be better as well. Stereophile found there to be measurable output at 31.5 HZ! Granted down in DB from the rated 40 HZ...but amazing non the less. I like the 225 so much I have a pair in reserve for when they no longer make them. Right now they are put away, as I’m enjoying my Tannoys....herb Reichert liked the 225’s better than his ls50’s, the elac B6, and even his falcons! "The Diamond 225 had a pacey, easy-flowing transparency that made my KEF LS50s sound slightly thick, my Technics SB-C700s sound slightly dry, my Falcon Acoustics LS3/5as sound a mite bright. I was hoping I wouldn’t have to say those things, but that’s what I heard." Some of the stuffy jerks here can laugh all they want and balk at a pair of 449 dollar speakers all they want, I can care less! I hear what I hear and can see why these speakers are so special! https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/wharfedale-diamond-225-bookshelf-speakers |
Ill vouch for the Wharfdale EVO. I recently landed a pair of the EVO 4.3 for a little under $1000 from Audio Affair. They werent my first choice, but after waiting months for my first choice to get back in stock I went with the Wharfdales over a set of Focals. Couldnt be happier with the sound in my simple and modest system. The only other components are an OPPO 105 and an Arcam SA20 integrated. Id at least give the Evo's a test drive if you have the chance. |
@acoustacrat33, Steve Guttenberg raved about the Emotiva b1+ and I would have considered snagging some but they are sold out... @audioguy55, good to head your experience with the 225; they were, and are still on my radar. The you tuber “Tharbamar” absolutely loves his. He did a slight mod where he increased ghe plate height on the bottoms ever so slightly... kind of An interesting tweak. The thing that held me back from buying them is the funky angles of the binding posts. I have some expensive speaker cables with fat spades and don’t know if I want to be bending them in strange angles in order to hook them up. How much are those posts angled in strange directions?? For $299 seems like a no brainer from the reviews, but again, those posts... @phill55, I bet the Carbon 7’s are 👌. I reviewed the Carrera BE’s last month and felt like they were champs at $3500. I think I may feel the same way about the Carbon 7se mkii as well. I love the paper cones and silk tweeters. The Carbon 7se mkii has $800 worth of drivers stuffed into a $2500 speaker; thats great value. His series crossovers are great and I love his woodwork too. I may be able to try out a pair starting this weekend... we’ll see how things pan out. @mickyb, I remember you touting those music culters 👍. Thanks for putting that unknown speaker in my mind. I agree about the Tylers too. I had a pair and loved them. Theres a pair of linbrook sigs for $3500 right now... those speakers must have close to $3000 worth of Seas Excel drivers in them... if I had $3500 right now I’d be taking a long hard look at those bad boys 👍 @jmun76, good to hear about the Evo 4.3’s! At around $900 right now, those would be close to if not the top of my list. Good to hear that you are liking them 🙂. The 4.4’s were my favorite “budget speaker last RMAF. I bet the 4.3’s are close. I spent quite a bit of time listening to the 4.4’s and actually went back 2 times... the white oak looks really nice too. Wharfedale is a company I have never owned a speaker from But that will probably change soon! Everyone has given great examples and its good to hear from owners of these suggestions! The Triangle Borea BR03 is piquing my interest as well based on all of the glowing reviews but you can’t find a pair to buy right now... |
@b_limo youll never get to hear all these speakers and even if you did youd never hear them at the same time and be able to decide. Chances are youd never be happy with any of them. You are on the speaker merry go round. What you need is a master tuner such as myself to do a visit and figure out why your system sounds horrible. Find yourself a good speaker tuner. You obviously need help |
Just for the record, I’m not asking advice on which speakers I should buy, just wanted to get a thread where a bunch of good “bang for the buck” speakers are provided. Just for fun. And Kenjit, this list is small. I go through quite a few speakers. I kind of have a problem; I’m a bit speaker crazy where as your just crazy! You’re more than welcome to stop by though whenever they give you a pass and let you out of the looney bin 😁 |
Wharfedale EVO 40s, used. Best they ever made. Add a small sub or two and you're still under original retail. Gorgeous rosewood finish, superb decoupling plinth and structure. Simply flawless and a giveaway after company sold to China and this EVO series discontinued. Diamond series are a tinny knockoff, aimed at mass market and home theater. |
DIY is the way to go if you want the most for your money. There are a huge number of excellent drivers out there. I would do a 2 way open baffle (plate) speaker and cross to a sub woofer at 125 hz. Use a 6" mid range woofer and a dome tweeter. Cross at 12 db/oct with 6db down point at around 2500 Hz you can find schematics for cross overs on line or design it yourself. The equations are simple. The trick is finding drivers that will cover those ranges with about the same sensitivity. You will pobably have to pad one of the drivers a little. I would use a potentiometer. adjust it till the response is flat, check the resistance and replace it with a high quality resistor. I made such a system for a friend of mine who has muscular dystrophy. He is a music teacher and almost totally paralyzed. He has a van he drives with joy sticks! I used Corian and MDF for the plates and Focal drivers. They do not sell individual drivers any more. The subs were 12" Dayton Titanic 3's in Corian enclosures. We used a TACT preamp and amp for the plates and a QSC amp on the sub woofers. The Tact provided the cross over. The plates hang from the ceiling with the subs below. I still get compliments on that system. The goal was to give him the best possible system for as little as possible and we beat the $8000 limit. |
I think you would be hard pressed to get any other speaker the quality of the 2CE’s Sig I’s for that littleVandersteen model 2 is, IMO, an all-time best value in high end audio. Get the most recent iteration you can afford (it is frequently upgraded). I owned the 2Ce Sig II first iteration. This was upgraded once or twice without a new name designation (one of these added the "tri-woven" midrange driver) but there is now a 2Ce Sig III. |
Trickledown and smart frugal but better sounding innovation is alive at Vandersteen since 1977 the latest model II is even better, quarter million sold :-) how fun iF we are limiting this to speakers we have actually heard at some length then I would certainly vote for the 225 and excellent speaker, I prefer the various LS3 variants to the LS-50, the KEF101, Linn KAN are both Fantastic values used. IF you want to rock in a small cabinet then LINN Sarah 3 is amazing. Finally surprised @bdp24 missed promotion of the Eminent Tech planers- a fantastic value if you have the room !!! a hidden gem that gets you the Vandersteen Carbon teeeter in a coaxial package is the Vandersteen VLR Signature for $3,500 add sound anchor stands and a sub 3 and you have a world beater... fun time, lots of great speakers :-) |
Very true about the ET LFT-8b, @tomic601. But for whatever reason, no matter how many times they are mentioned, people just like the OP continue to ignore them. I give up! ;-) Plus, as he was mentioning $500 loudspeakers, I didn’t want to suggest a $2499/pr model. Another planar to consider, assuming you have at least 3’ minimum (5’ better) to sacrifice behind them, is the $650/pr (plus shipping) Magnepan LRS, with one to four subs. I would take either of the above before a lot of far more expensive speakers, but I’m a planar enthusiasts. Not everyone is. Planars are like Country music or Opera: you either love ’em, or you don't. |
“DIY is the way to go if you want the most for your money“ @mijostyn, I disagree with this notion. Fortunately there are plenty of in-expensive and crazy good (performance) options across the board nowadays. Unless you want to satisfy the spirit of ‘inventor’ within you, I see no reason to build speakers that plays such a critical role in how your system going to voiced. At the end of the day, DIY speakers with all the troubles of finding drivers, crossover parts, cabinetry and hours spent in testing ....well they are going to appear and perform like someone built them in their garage. That’s just my two cents (no offense). The title of OP’s thread...diminishing returns, try and re-sell DIY stuff (speakers or cables) you will be lucky if you can recoup the cost of the parts. |
@bdp24 , I had actually looked them up awhile back based on your suggesting them in a totally different thread! Your suggestions are not falling on deaf ears my friend 🙂. The issue I have with them, and most planars is shipping, resale and durability. 👍👍 on the LRS though. I could get those local and new and for the $ probably will someday. The Magnepan VLR signature is also a great recommendation! I’ve heard great review about them. So many great suggestions here. Apart from aesthetics, I’m not sure that there’s much sense in spending over $5k. |
