DAC/Streamer/PreAmp

Understood, @dmaddox77 . I too keep 2 Ch / “theater” separate. No such convenient DSP AIO’s for stereo-only that I’m aware of. Too bad, since that could be really handy for streaming to one MLP.

@benanders, I have.  I am.considering one for my 7.4.4 movie room in the future.  I want this to be strictly 2 channel system.

Did you look into Trinnov?

This is a tough one as it is so open ended.  There are preamps with built in DAC/Streamers (AGD, Bricasti) and then there are DACs with volume controls and streamers built in (many others).
 

My experience is that for a single unit, preamp with built in DAC is best performer.  This is because the full preamp seems to work better with power amps.  The AGD Andante and Bricasti M12 are this.  I am certain there are many others but these two sound particularly good.

There are a million other combos that could be suggested out of three separate parts.  Difficult to even narrow down

Look at the T+A MP3100HV. They also have cheaper models. Top notch German engineering.

Thank you all for your help.  I am having a lot of fun building my system.  I enjoy researching gear, and enjoy listening to music even more.

@jbuhl  +1

Simaudio Moon 791 Preamp/DAC/Network player is $16k.  It also has a built in phono section that is supposed to be quite good.  Their Mind2 app is also supposed to be quite good.  And if you run - or want to run - Roon, just get a sonicOrbiter from Small Green Computer as your server for <$2k and you’ve got a killer setup.  Matching Moon amp down the road if you’re feeling it.  Life is good!

 

deep_333

507 posts

02-06-2024 at 10:01am

Scope creep is real

 

- Pay your taxes, don’t set yourself up for audits.

- Consult with a therapist for controlling ocd audiophilia symptoms.

- Hit the gym.

- Don’t vote for the Orange Lard Baboon.

what’s an audio discussion without politics…incredible this gets mixed into the conversation 

As you asked offline about the Backert Rhumba Extreme and ARC preamps I’ll share this review that compares the Rhumba vs. the ARC LS17SE, which was priced $2k less at the time but just as an indication of the different sound characteristics…

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0919/Backert_Labs_Rhumba_Extreme_13_Preamplifier_Review.htm
 

As I mentioned, the ARC REF5 SE is an incredible pre and at a different level entirely from the LS17SE, and as you can get one of these used for around $6k that would absolutely have to be in the conversation.  Here’s one that may still be available…

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ba7e-audio-research-ref-5-se-silver-preamp-complete-tube

The newer Rhumba Extreme 1.4 goes for $8500 new so a pretty dear premium to a used REF5 SE, but if you can find a used Rhumba 1.3 Extreme and can deal with only one fully balanced input (versus 2 on the 1.4) you’re looking at a nice discount to a used REF5 SE.  Personally this would be a tough decision and would likely come down to which sound profile most closely matches your personal preferences so read the reviews.  The good news — there’s no way in hell you’d go wrong either way, so there’s that.

OP …” I do not want to underspend”.

i recommended separate components for streamer and DAC. Many people believe that the streamer function doesn’t matter… at least as much as the DAC. This is not true. The streamer like a turntable cartridge makes a huge difference. By not underspending, that would be going cheap on the streamer and putting most of your money into the DAC.

….”but will pay up for quality and great sound.”
 

Ok, in that case I change my recommendation. I recommend the Aurrender W20SE streamer ($22K) and the Berkeley Alpha Reference 3 DAC ($22K). I own the former and have had the latter in my system for a week. Both top notch performers and well worth their price for the sound quality.

The Lumin P1 would be my first choice for a preamp/streamer/dac. Mainly because the P1 does fibre streaming and the Lumin is amaziing for streaming.

I’ve been looking to replace my Chord Dave DAC for under $25K. I’ve had home auditions of the Rockna Signature, Mola Mola Tambaqui, DCS Bartok, and DCS Rossini APEX. In my system the Dave and Tambaqui are more a like than different. The Bartok(non-APEX) mask details and the Rossini APEX is too bright in my system. In my system, the Rossini has better separation of instruments, wider and slightly deeper soundstage than the aforementioned DACs, but my wife said she had a headache after several songs from the brightness. Next up will probably be a Ideon Ion DAC.

The Rossini produced the most significant differences between all of the DACs that I’ve listened to, but there still isn’t a night and day difference between any of them.

I would say a Lumin P1. It is all of those things. Plus it has LEEDH volume control for great sound at any volume. Also it has an analog RCA/ XLR input. The power supply is linear. They say it is pretty close to the Lumin X1. I was setting up anti skate at a friends house yesterday and his P1 sounded amazing. Try to listen first to see if you like the sound signature with your Focals. I just heard the new Borensen speakers at Next Level Audio. Pretty amazing sound for $5500 with stands. Jays Audio Lab had a private event. They are supposed to be at AXPONA this year. 

I will stick with the "plug and play" comment. This unit can stream Qobuz and is also Roon ready in case you decide to go that route. Might have to look in the used market to get it under $20K

https://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no-519-audio-player-digital-streamerplayercddacpreamp

There is also a Levinson No526 supposedly NIB over on usaudio for a steep discount.  That leave plenty of room for a nice separate Streamer.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650069654-mark-levinson-no-526/

I would suggest the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC ($13,500).  It is a Roon endpoint but you would need a Roon core (Nucleus or NUK). It has a very good digital volume control. But best of all, the sound is simply the best at anywhere near, or way beyond, its price. 

I’m really jonesing to hear a set of the Borresen X3 myself. 

Scope creep is real

- Pay your taxes, don’t set yourself up for audits. 

- Consult with a therapist for controlling ocd audiophilia symptoms.

- Hit the gym.

- Don’t vote for the Orange Lard Baboon.

Scope creep is real

@dmaddox77 

Technics SLG700M2 (SACD Player+DAC+Streamer combo unit)

Their remastering feature, etc in this unit tends to beat out the separate dacs and streamers ( in execution of sonics) on all kinds of recordings for your budget..plus you get a very nice SACD player with it.

Price = $3500

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_133SLG7M2S/Technics-SLG700M2-Silver.html

Schiit Kara preamp 

Price = $700

https://www.schiit.com/products/kara

Schiit Tyr Monoblocks times 2

Price: $3200

https://www.schiit.com/products/tyr

Subtotal = $8400

Budget = $20, 000

Balance = $11,600

Buy Borresen X3 speakers, Price = $11,000

Get rid of Focal Soupra. Use recouped cash to buy as many 'official studio master' hires albums from Qobuz as possible. Download files and put them on your nas for permanent ownership. Streaming the actual hires files from a nas is the highest fidelity of listening possible. Use the regular Tidal, Qobuz, etc just to discover music.

Following, and curious to know the groups feelings on the Bluesound Vault 2i.

While it “may” need an outboard DAC, it streams most anything, it connects to your NAS for your library, it rips your CD collection and stores 2tb of music in multiple file formats, including FLAC, operates at a bit depth of 16-24, with a sampling rate of 32-192khz. S/N ratio of 110db, and operates on Microsoft and Apple OS’s, and integrates with most any play platform. A Bluetooth interface.

Seems it ticks all my boxes for a $1300 price tag.

Seems that I could now easily convert my 1500 CD collection to FLAC files.

Am I missing much in considering this?

I like the concept of a one box solution as well (footprint, simplicity)

• Linn Hub edition DSM…lots of options for DAC as well as phone stage 
• Moon 791 even has a phon stage

Ine box reduces system matching as well as reduces interconnects, power cables, etc. 

I prefer to simplify when possible - though it does compromise future flexibility. Therefore I would use a well respected manufacturer who supports their products beyond when they are no longer sold. 

I add my voice to the separate crowd.  You have enough budget for a great preamp, DAC, and streamer.  Streaming is still evolving, and if you want to upgrade as things change you don’t want to be tied into other components that you don’t want to change.  Saving space doesn’t seem to be a consideration because you are planning to go to mono block amps.  I would get a tubed preamp

Hi, I can only speak for the DCS Bartok (non-Apex)as someone has mentioned. I was becoming disillusioned with separates because you constantly upgrade with increasingly underwhelming results. I borrowed my friend's Bartok and it lifted my system to a new level completely. I bought it off him! - he then purchased the Rossini. I am very happy with it and it matches the rest of my system in price and performance. 

I only listen to Qobuz, rest of my kit is; PS Audio BHK 300's monos, Kef Reference 5 speakers and I too have a pair of S812 subs.

I must add though that the Bartok does not have any RCA inputs 

Hope this helps, good luck Mark

A few DACs have a preamp built in to be wired directly into an amp, and most DACs included in the preamps are usually substantially sonically subpar to stand alone DACs.  Hegel H600 and Aesthetix Mimas both have very good optional DACs, but they’re both integrated.

The Moon 791 might be worth considering as a tidy single unit solution. 

Here is a video on ROON walk through

@carlsbad2, I am still haven't decided about Roon.  If it is that good and user friendly I would have to consider it.  Budget is always a moving target.

@ghdprentice I do not want to underspend or overspend, but will pay up for quality and great sound.

@soix thank you for the recommendation.  I have spent a lot of time looking at Lamli and the Rhumba Line Stage.  Now just need to make a decision on all these great recommendations.

You mentioned Grimm. I use a Grimm MU1 and a Lampizator GG3 and achieve great soundstage and the midrange you like, but doesn’t fit the budget you have set now.

The grimm includes a Roon core (I think you have to use it). So is roon a go or no go?

The GG3 has the latest digital core and uses a DHT pre stage which I think is a huge advantage over pentodes. YMMV.

Jerry

Definitely separates.

If I was doing it.

Aurrender Streamer N200. I definitely recommend Aurrender streamers, the more I listen to different models vs the competition the more impressed I am. This is a key component. This is a really important component. Do not under invest.

Used Audio Research DAC 9 DAC or used Berkeley Alpha 3. There are lots of good DACs available in the market. Given the natural sound you want. Not Weiss.

Audio Research Preamp used Reference 3 or higher. Heart of the system, you want a top notch preamp. One of these will be with you for decades unless you upgrade.

Funny you mentioned Lampi because that’s exactly why I asked about tubes as Lampi DACs have a rep for having a huge, voluminous 3D soundstage. Then I’m thinking you want a preamp that can just convey all that goodness without either squelching it nor overdoing it to make things overly ripe, and the Backert Rhumba Extreme 1.4 came to mind as it also throws a big stage but won’t overly color things, and the tubes last forever. Last, I’d hop on this Innuos Pulsar streamer that incorporates Innuos’ latest thinking and technology and comes with their Sense app that gets top reviews for both sound and usability, which puts it in pretty rare air as many others are compromised in one way or another. Here’s a pristine used unit that’s 31% or $2500 off the $8k retail price. Cha CHING!

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650067155-innuos-pulsar-streamer/

And you’re right — I did have a lotta fun with this and hope it’s at least somewhat useful. Best of luck in your quest!

@dmaddox77 a good integrated like the Pass Int250 (for that size room you need power) would be a nice match with the Focals. Hard to find used but given time and patience, possible. 
If you don’t need Roon, streamers with decent UI are Aurender and Auralic. With the latter you may be slightly on the brighter side sonically. Lumin U2 is a good choice but the UI is not great…you will need Roon because used on its own the Lumin does not have a user friendly interface. 

Split budget down the middle for streamer and DAC. Or get a one box solution. More flexibility with separates. 

@soix, I haven't really purchased or ripped stored music.  Yet.  I will be streaming more than anything else.  I am open to tubes so a Lampizator or the like will work.

I have also looked at the Grimm MU2, Esoteric, Weiss DAC502.  I am trying to use you alls extensive knowledge to narrow my search to then try to get an in home demo.

Are you open to tubes? Your tastes would certainly point in that direction.  Also, do you have stored music you need to play through a server or are you ok just streaming through something like Qobuz or Tidal?

Aurender A-units, Auralic Altair, Rose 150B, DCS Bartok. Some of these much cheaper than your 10-20K budget. Actually there are a lot of them, and you will get all sorts of suggestions from this forum. Have fun researching and shopping.