Dac: Old vs New

Look at MHDT DACs

@tonyjack yes some of my older dacs were a tad more veiled over, less transparent, and not always in a bad way. Some were quite pleasant actually.

While more current dacs I’ve tried have become more transparent, not all of them turned out to be as enjoyable to listen to. There are a few of my older dacs I probably should have kept. Only way to know is to try them, best of luck.

SIGNIFICANT improvement

No. Improvement? Possibly

The best thing for anyone to do is to read the many reviews available on the various models in your price range and then buy one of the likely candidates from a place that allows returns.  Some will give you all your money back if your return it within a set time period (minus shipping), and others may charge you a restocking fee.  Even then, it can still be a reasonably cost effective way to try things out for yourself.  BTW, I have a Schiit Modi Multibit 2 that I bought a few months ago. Of the various DACs I have (and have had) it is my favorite, especially for the cost.

Thanks for the responses. I forgot to say that I'm trying to stay under the $500 mark. Maybe that's being optimistic but that's what I'm hoping for. I also have a fairly modern DAC in a system called the MyDac from Micromega. I like it and it was inexpensive. I've had a Cal Audio Sigma II tube Dac, MSB Digital Link and a Museatex Bidat (needs repair) All sound good but very old.

I still have my border patrol from 3 years or more ago...still sounds fine to me. New stuff is different, not necessarily better.

Check out Geshelli J2, either AKM or Sabre chips.  Great products, and great price.  And, looks dapper in its wood case.

Don’t listen to anyone except your ears/brain. This hobby of ours is time consuming but if you are into it, can be extremely rewording and gratifying. It is not for everyone, that’s why audiophiles are on the minority. The process of getting the best possible sound out of your system is more important than the end result, which for most of us it is never realized. Oh boy, I was tempted to say for most of YOU but decided to be humbled today. It would be helpful to have some guidance from credible sources but that can be very misleading and complicate things even more for you. Enjoy the process!

There is so much better technologies in digital advancements over the last 4 years 

depending too on your budget , any of the Denafrips  dacs brings good value,

as well as most Holo springs , Gustards new R26  dac is great value ,

to get imo a truly good reference dac roughly around $5k and up . The best dac I have heard and have heard allthe above and on my buying list is the $7k T+A 200 dac it is as good if not better then any dac at 2x it’s cost .

Depends on the modifications performed. If done correctly, those DACs you mention may not be an improvement at all. There really has not been that much technology advancement over the years.

@audioman58 what DACs have you comp-0ared your DAC to at 2X that you felt were not an improvement?

Happy Listening.

Perhaps go to the used market, for the $500 range you'll have a lot of options.  Personally I preferred the smsl m400 over the denafrips aries. It's still in the second system. The m400 has some warmth and good control on bass. Good sparkle and definition also. Probably the aries would be more like your older dacs. You could move it on with little cost if not to your liking and try something else. Just my thoughts on my experience with those 2 dacs.

Agree Bigkidz

Many older DACs are great sounding but lack certain features or abilities to play some hi-rez files. I see that as more of the issue to upgrade a dac rather than just sound alone.  

For me a DAC can have no noise emitting LED lights or they must be switchable. Prefer R2R. 

The phrase "significant improvement in sound" is too general.

What sorts of improvements are you looking for?

The next question is, How can you get those improvements most readily? A different DAC is not necessarily the answer.

The most significant changes in sound come from room acoustics, then speakers and speaker/amplification synergy.

It's interesting how many people will simply weigh in on your DAC issue without knowing these other variables. It's like saying "How do I get there?" without letting anyone know where you want to go, or why. It seems people are more interested in saying anything than answering the question you are asking.

a SIGNIFICANT improvement in sound

Benchmark DAC 1 (in stock form)

$500 mark

Empirical Audio Synchro-Mesh ($600, last recall)

Very difficult question. This is very budget oriented equipment… so with limited design time and part choices based mostly on cost. So, if you want a significant improvement in sound quality, I recommend save up,twice as much and buy a used unit a few years old for around half price. This would put you in the used $2K range. 

A lot depends on you and your expectations. If you truly understand that you might gain a bit of spatialness or a bit more detail or a bit better soundstage or imaging, but most likely not all of these things, you will find differences and may be worth trying others. I have had no less than 15 different dacs and have never spent more than $500. I have found gems at a hundred dollars or so and some real dissapointments. What I am using now is without a doubt the best that I’ve had in my system. It is an SMSL SU9 with MQA version. I’ve had it about a year and since I’ve had it, they have come out with a few other models that compete in the same price range. Be aware that I sent mine back to SMSL for a firmware update to remove a distortion peak. I believe the current models do not have this issue. I’m sure that other manufacturers also have some great products for the buck. All I am saying a very long winded way is yes. You can find something else out there. A couple others that I have owned is the MODI 3 (akm) and the original Chord Mojo. I prefer the SMSL. One thing the SMSL had done for me is that I've always had a hot spot that I do not have with the smsl. 

Perhaps a DAC with a tube output is in order? Something way different sounding may just be what the doctor ordered. 

Tonyjack

I'm a fan of Gustard for fairly inexpensive DAC's. I have one and love it

There is a 22x pro listed for a good price. It offers a lot for the money and right in your budget

Thanks for all the information from everyone! It's very helpful and very interesting.Please keep them coming. I'm taking it all in!!

@tonyjack - have you thought of upgrading your cables?

Todays components really are better than many systems allow them to be. Upgrading the cables allow modestly priced components to excel to levels I did not think possible

I’ve achieved great improvements in sound quality on reasonably modest components (i.e. $400-$700) by using quality cables with them.

• improved clarity and details
• fast dynamic response
• spacious and well defined image

A good place to start would be Audio Envy Cables - excellent cables for a modest outlay - great bang for the buck

Zavfino are also very good, with their TOTL cables costing a little more for stellar performance.

I started with the interconnects and then upgraded the power cables also on both my Schiit Bifrost, which I then replaced that with my Node2, both of which stepped up their performance level with good cables.

Hope that helps - Steve

I bought the original Ayre QB9 in 2011. In around 2017 I purchased an upgrade from Ayre and the difference was revealing. Around 2020 I purchased another upgrade from Ayre and the difference was astounding. At this stage, the Ayre DAC is so good that I had the opportunity to replace it but decided to put that money towards a better streamer/renderer instead. So in a discursive way to answer your question, a new DAC will provide improvements however keep in mind, a DAC bought today will be antiquated within ten years time. For $500.00, I must admit I’d have trouble finding a DAC that could deliver as I really don’t know about DAC’s in that price range.

@tonyjack I was in the same boat. I own an old but very respected dac and was curious as to how dac has progressed over the years. I bought the Topping d90se to try. Well received and measured really well. Well getting right to the point, it sucked. It has high details but low transparency. in a sense that it allows you to hear almost everything. But it doesn’t differentiate pitch and loudness very well. So even though you can hear more instruments, those instruments sounded similar to each other and one song sound similar to the next. A monotone presentation that got boring very quickly. Soundstage was meh. Air was meh. 

So yea the Topping was a disappointment. But I did like how vocals sounded on it though.

@tonyjack I’m actually selling my dac (Anedio D2) for a very good price. PM me if you want more details. Be warned that it makes a pop when turning off or turning on, you can avoid this by turning dac on before amp, and turning amp off before turning dac off. Or you can leave dac on 24/7

It’s a fantastic dac (also a pre-amp and headphone amp combo) and normally I wouldn’t sell but I bought a BMC amp and its potential is not fully realized unless I also buy a BMC dac to connect both product through the "Current-Injection" method.

If the Topping comparison was anything to go by, I don’t think there’s a new dac out there that can touch my Anedio D2 for under $500.

This dac was very special at the time it was released. John grandberg (project86) said it rival some Invictus dac at $8,000 or something. My memory is a little hazy but you can find more details when you search up d1/d2 reviews. 

I had a PS Audio DL3 Cullen lvl 3 and still remember that I really enjoyed it when I had it. I would say at the current $500 mark, new DACs will not be as enjoyable as it. You might get better measurements but there's no free lunch when it comes to budget components. I'd suggest saving a little bit more and getting something a little over the $1k range like a used Yggdrasil or Pontus II. Those should provide some technical improvements without losing musicality.

I'm using a Schiit Modius AKM 4493 chipped dac and it sounds great..  It cost $179.99 from Schiit B stock.  I've been using it for two years. It has micro USB, coaxial, optical, and AES inputs, and both SE and balanced outputs.  I also use an IFi Zen Dac Signature version one (USB input only - retail $249.99) which also has SE and balanced outputs. IMHO, it's another great sounding dac for the money.  I also use a vintage (2008) Audio By Van Alstine Insight multibit dac with a Schiit EITR USB to S/PDIF converter and it sounds quite good with my Amazon Fire HD 10 tablet. I paid about $300 used (retail was $900 about $1200 in current U.S. dollars.)

For some reason,  the AVA Insight dac will only work with the EITR with a micro USB HD 10 Amazon Fire.  The Insight will not work with any of the USB-C Amazon Fire dacs that I use.