DAC break-in question

My Schitt Yggi+ OG needed 1 month of non-stop play before it sounded like it does today. I was disappointed the DAC at first. I did turn the amp off when streaming overnight.

Yes, if your source is running a signal to your DAC and the DAC is on that is all you need to burn it in. I did this very same thing with my Denafrips Terminator 15th as it needed aver 500 hours.

Yep …. You betcha. Run-in time is important in high-end gear . ( I use “run-in” instead of an imperfect “break-in” )

MY TAKE:

My MOON 280D MiND2 streamer/ network player/ dac initially suggested a minimum run-in period of about 200-300 hours . BUT , It was only at the 500 hour level that it fully blossomed into its top performance strata.

What was explained to me was it was no surprise - the 200-300 threshold was the recommended MINMUM. The extended run-in time was necessary so that its high-end build parts, boards, and high-end OCC wiring settle in properly that parallel the required long run-in time in its high-end amps.

NOTE:

- Regardless, the unit audio performance run-in step-ups were never linear in time . Rather it was a series of ad hoc ladder steps .

- Every OEM will have its own bespoke manual directions . MOON suggests that it be left powered on continuously. I was initially skeptical, but I eventually relented to keep it powered on as suggested …. Hmmm …. Yes …. An audio performance additional uptick was now noticed .…go figger.

The DAC won't know that the amp is off...

Thanks so much. I have not done any serious listening to my new Topping e70 Velvet. I hope to start this weekend. So I will leave it on and stream from roon.

Again thanks

Yes you can. And for me , I have a Schiit Yiggy which needs to be warmed up and I leave it on continuously unless I’m gone on vacation. 

As @jl35 mentioned above, the DAC has no way of knowing what is connected to its outputs. It will try to spit out a signal even if nothing is powered up or even connected to its outputs. So you can definitely warm it up or break it in that way.

It seems to me that if you just let the music flow into the DAC, it could build up and when you eventually turn on the amp, the sudden surge of music to the speakers could overheat something or possibly even blow out the speakers (that makes as much sense as an electrical component needing break-in). 

So the answer is pretty simple -

running streamer into DAC (try to set up a playlist consisting of music with different bit rates and set it on repeat) without your amplifier on: you’re breaking in the digital in, power supply and the DAC section. You’re not breaking in the output section. To do a full end to end break in your amp or preamp that DAC is connected to has to be on. You can choose to break in the analog out section while listening and keep the digital front end running 24/7 with amp off and it will take a few days more. The digital section and power supply break in will be typically around 200hrs.
Or bite the bullet and keep the amp on for few days. When amp is off the signal from DAC analog out is not flowing. 

OK, so follow on question… do each of the inputs & outputs need to be burned in? IE: new pre… separate burn in required for phono line in, DAC in & HT in? Separate burn in for output to amp & headphones? Same question for a DAC, streamer in, CD in. How about each filter? I think the answer is yes, except perhaps the filters… but maybe even them. And then for how long? I don’t think my CD portion of my system will ever be burned in. 

Someone needs to explain the science behind electronic components needing to be “broken in.” I’m not denying that the phenomenon exists, I just don’t understand the science. 

There is some science and physics behind the break-in of electronics, but it has been taken way too far by people not understanding how minor it is and the reality. You do not need to break-in a component before listening, that's silly. Just plug the damn thing in and enjoy it. You must have the full circuit complete to break-in anything in the system as the circuit needs to be complete. Stop overthinking this, just play it and it will break-in with normal use. Don't expect some magical change.

I agree. In my experience if I hated how a cable or a component sounded right out of the gate no amount of break in could help. 

I am a true believer in “break in”. And you’re going to love that DAC! I had that in my second system and was blown away at the jump in performance when adding this to my system. What a great little DAC. Nothing comes close in that price range and even doubling the price nothing touches it imho. Enjoy!

Interesting. I can absolutely attest that my new BHK pre to my new Focal Clears required significant burn in before I enjoyed the sound. 

Even though we’re not debating (thankfully) the merits of run in, I’ll add my $.02. 

I’m still breaking in my new DAC which I acquired late December (as I haven’t been there that much). I couldn’t resist listening to it and my first thoughts were I may have made a very expensive mistake. It was smooth, but dynamically constrained and the soundstage not better than what i had. But I gave it a couple of weeks and it is now coming to life and the difference from out of the box is stunning. A magnitude of difference significantly greater than any component upgrade I’ve made. 

@mgrif104 Which DAC did you buy?

Can I just stream to a DAC and keep the amplifier off (the Dac is running and showing the sample rates, etc)? Or does a signal need to be getting to the actual amplifier?

My amp is Class A and I do not want to leave it running.

My understanding to burn-in the analog output section of the DAC the output needs to be connected to a load.

Looking at your profile you list a Luxman L-595ase integrated amplifier. I see what appears to be push buttons on the front face panel on the amp. I assume the push buttons are used to control input relays. Any idea what the State of the relay contacts are when the amp is powered off. Maintained closed or open? or defaults to open? You need a maintained closed contact for the input the DAC’s analog output is plugged into, for a connected load.

By chance do you have an old piece of audio or audio video equipment with analog inputs you could use for a load? Maybe an old power amp?

.

The amp does NOT need to be on to break-in the DAC.

@signaforce 

A T+A SDV 3100 HV. It’s spectacular now and I’m thrilled. And, pretty sure it’s going to get even better with more time. 

@mgrif104 

I’m excited for you. I am looking for a new DAC and will be very interested your thoughts on the SDV 3100 HV.

The power of confirmation bias!

 

mofimadness

5,092 posts

02-20-2025 at 09:27am 

The amp does NOT need to be on to break-in the DAC.
 

true for the DAC section. But you are not working the analog out. For that to happen you need to complete the circuit and that only takes place when the amp is on. 

@curiousjim 

Thanks much! White I don’t have the audiophile vernacular down, I can honestly say it’s the best I’ve heard with resolution, smoothness and musicality that just seems “right”.  

I had previously auditioned the Linn Klimax DSM3 and Ideon Absolute (clock and streamer), and DCS. 

The T+A was a good choice for me because I already had their DAC 200 and liked its very much (and I had auditioned a LOT of DACs before I purchased that unit about 18 months ago). I think the DAC 200 is a bargain for the performance it offers. The SDV is more of everything that I liked. More resolution, yet more natural too, whether PCM or DSD.

Thanks to Juan @blisshifi. I purchased both units from him. One of the good guys.

I’m moving the DAC 200 to a cabin system where I’m also building a new analog front end going into a tube preamp. Yeah - I recognize how lucky and spoiled I am.

@audphile1...Sorry, but I don't think that is right?  The analog signal is available at the RCA output jacks as along as the DAC is on and processing the signal...correct? That would mean the analog section is indeed working.  Unless you can turn the analog section of the DAC on & off, the analog signal is always present at the jacks.  It doesn't sit outside the unit.

I have sent this question to a couple of experts in the field, (I was in the high-end business for many years), to get their take.  We shall see...

As many others have experienced, I have observed clear improvements as equipment has broken in. Loudspeakers, turntables & CD transports that actually move obviously can change how they sound but electronics have “movement” too, just at a much higher rate of speed. of course tube amps sound noticeably better after they’re warmed up too.

What I’m curious about is this change measurable w/ the right equipment? Will a new amp or other electronics measure differently than one that has 500 hours on it?  Of course measurements can only tell part of the story & some things that measure well don’t sound so great  as well as the inverse of this too. It seems that with the incredible detail & I guess accuracy that John Atkinson reports on the electronics he tests, there could be a noticeable difference. Does anyone have any experience w/ this??
 

@mgrif104 Wow! I’ll bet it sounds magnificent!

@mofimadness the DAC section is on and working. The analog stage is on but there will be no signal on the analog outs from the DAC if the amp the DAC is connected to is off. So that entire part of the dac takes few days to settle which is not a big deal but again the DAC output is only working if the amp/preamp it is connected to is on. Hey if I’m wrong it wouldn’t be the first time. Let me know what you hear from the experts. 

 

jasonbourne71

1,261 posts

02-20-2025 at 09:46am 

The power of confirmation bias!
 

Try taking off those shades man. You might see the world in a different light

+1 @audphile1 

Confirmation bias is real, but used too many times subjectively. 

how about the manufacturers "break them in" before selling. 

some manufacturers, like Zu, do break-in before shipping, but most do not have the time, space, money to do so...

@katzenjammer27 

l have just purchased a new Denafrips DAC and was informed they ‘run-in’ it in for 100 hours prior to delivery. I think this is also a very good quality control move to ensure everything meets specifications and avoid any QA issues.  With DACs in particular I’ve read they should not be switched off but left in standby, presumably to keep capacitors fully loaded for when the unit is switched on.  My current Bel Canto 3.7 DAC is permanently on as per the manufacturer’s advice. Paul from PS Audio recently discussed run in apropos speakers and Upscale Audio also supports the view of great differences among non to run in speakers. As for running HiFi  in general and hearing sound changes there is evidence that electronic components change with use (both improve and with time deteriorate) but with human sound memory being so poor it’s hard to know if improvements are real. Which is what @jasonbourne71 was pointing out in his inimitable fashion, I suspect the only way to do this would be to buy two identical new items that supposedly improve with run-in and rub one in and then compare and measure new versus run in? Maybe a challenge one of Audiogon’s many HiFi dealers could easily arrange. To be honest I’m not on the fence with this as I hear differences between HiFi components, not always for the better. To get back to the topic running in the new DAC is good practice and shouldn’t need it to be connected to a preamp or amplifier stage to run in.

@audphile1 

The analog stage is on but there will be no signal on the analog outs from the DAC if the amp the DAC is connected to is off.

Surely the analog out will carry the output signal, presented as a voltage?  This will be a line-level signal of a few volts maximum.  The impedance of the line-level inputs to the amplifier will be high - around 10-k Ohm up to 1-M Ohm of more.  So hardly any current will flow in the interconnect whether the amplifier is switched on or not.  The impedance of the interconnect will allow a tiny AC current to ebb and flow in the interconnect even if it is open-circuit at the amplifier end.

I'm in camp amp needs to be on to pass full signal through output section of dac.

As for burn in, I absolutely hear it, this over many decades and all sorts of equipment. But in any case, it all becomes a non issue once components have a certain amount of hours on them. Problem arises when one doesn't believe in burn in and dismisses/banishes newly purchased equipment, I've had personal experience in buying equipment from churners who didn't believe in burn in, I don't let on a thing, they assume equipment lousy, may be willing to let it go at a lower price.

I don't even bother dealing with burn in much anymore, have a desktop or bedroom system I can use for burn in purposes. Speaker, speaker mods and amp output tubes are the only instance in which I have to put up with burn in.

I do believe that break-in does happen. However,

1. I think the general sound characteristic of a component will be apparent when you first hear it. I do not believe that a new component will sound like a clock radio when first used then 500 hours later it sounds amazing

2. I think break-in smooths out some general rough edges of its sound

3. I believe our ears break-in as well. Our brains can distinguish the smallest of sound changes. I compare it to renting an unfamiliar car for a week on vacation. After a couple of days, you begin to feel normal with the differences compared to your regular car. 

4. Our ears change as well. Some days (very few)I can't listen to anything. My system sounds terrible. Most of the time, I love how my system sounds. 

I think break-in is a combination of many things.

I think that it's part of the game we play. When I built my amps, I was expecting 5-700 hours to burn them in. It's been a great journey, noticing when a significant step has been achieved, sharing the almost blossoming of the system with my wife as we take the time to listen for a couple of hours each night. (and getting very competitive in cards...)

My system has yet to hit it's peak, I bought the speakers first, decided I needed better power, so within a month of purchasing the speakers, I added two tube mono blocks and a tube pre-amp. Also threw in dual subs within a few weeks of hooking up the amps. Pretty much the whole thing is burning in before my ears and it's pretty cool. Oh, yea, I have a bluesound vault that has also been burning in, and if a loki max needs burn in...all pretty much the same age. 

My system does sound better each week, now, thinking of adding a phono stage and TT, also upgrading the bluesound, but will wait a while.

If your computer or microwave oven doesn't need a break-in period, then the same goes for your audio gear.
 

Tangentially, when I purchased a used Aesthetix Romulus that had been unplugged for a year, Aesthetix told me that a month on standby would bring it back to full performance...

when breaking in my amps, my buddy lent me these resistors to connect to the outputs so I didn’t have to hear music all night. It was pretty cool, turn it on and stream music through the system, but their was some music, when you stood close to the amps, you could hear the tubes singing. Not sure anyone’s tried this, but you can hear the songs by just listening to the tubes.

 

jaygilb

5 posts

02-21-2025 at 11:11am 

If your computer or microwave oven doesn't need a break-in period, then the same goes for your audio gear.
 

I log in once a day for entertainment. This is it.