Well it is AT after all. That is their sound. Something to keep in the back of your mind, you prefer a less tilted up sound. Me too.
A good part of what you're hearing as extension is probably just the grain and glare of a new cartridge. This will be less, the sound will get more relaxed and natural with more hours. It is AT after all, so don't expect a miracle, but hopefully you will be surprised how much it smooths out with some hours on it.
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Peter Ledermann (Soundsmith) has stated cartridge ‘burn-in’ is mostly a myth. What does happen is the stylus diamond tip adjusts itself for the first few hours.
As MC stated, AT’s are fairly known for their ‘tilted up’ sound. Clear, detailed definition, all great, but they seem to like the high end. As good as their clarity and definition seems to be, I went in a different direction as it seemed a bit ‘too much of a good thing’ to me. |
Some claim 50 hours, some say its a myth. I’ve certainly heard some fairly drastic changes in the first few hours with one cartridge I’ve owned with the bass filling out and the top end calming down, and hardly any from others. After 50 hours you can be fairly certain any change will be from wearing out rather than wearing in and I generally leave it that long after an initial setup before fine tuning. The fine line styli are a bit more sensitive to VTA and if the arm allows it and the sound is a bit toppy at the moment you could try adjusting it a bit down at the back but probably best to leave it a while and just play some records. |
Thanks for the replies. Listening today and definitely enjoying the more detailed sound. Right now the 2011 Aqualung reissue sounding great. If I get just a bit of calming after a while that would be fine. |
bkeske, How would a stylus "adjust itself." I could understand the suspension adjusting itself. Thing is why would this always make a cartridge sound better? Why not worse?
Ledermann thinks "break in" is purely psychological. He avoids saying it directly for obvious political reasons. Since I have nothing to sell I don't have to be political. Human hearing is incapable of detecting slow relatively minor changes in sound. It can detect abrupt changes above a certain threshold. It is more likely that we just become use to the sound over time so it becomes our new reference. Have you ever switched back to an old piece of equipment and gone "YUK?" "How could I ever have listened to that and I use to think that sounded great." You had gotten use to it.
On the other hand I can alter frequency response +- 1 db any which way anywhere between 20 Hz and 20 kHz and none of us would know it. 2 dB and I think most of us could identify the part of the spectrum that was being modified. 3 dB is unmistakable to anyone. 1 dB is a pretty big change but to hear it you would have to go to 2dB which is huge. I doubt anything "breaking in" would make a 2dB change in frequency response. |
@mijostyn Peter does not say anything about it being phycological. https://www.sound-smith.com/break-periods-soundsmith-cartridgesIf Peter is correct, it is also true for all cartridges. And I am sure Peter knows more about this than either of us. You can disagree with him if you wish, that is your or anyone else’s prerogative. |
@bkeske, If break in does not exist which, is essentially what he is saying for his cartridges at least then what causes it? Without saying it he has implied that it is psychological. As for his other possible mechanisms they are laughable. Styli do not rotate if glued in correctly. They are (or should be) permanently fixed to the end of the cantilever by one means or another. Azimuth does not change in moving coil cartridges. The coil is pulled firmly against it's rubber suspension which is fixed to the posterior pole. In order to change azimuth you would have to release the wire, rotate the coil then pull the wire tight again. He is patently trying to trumpet his design by belittling others which is a methodology he frequently uses in his lectures and the most significant reason as to why I probably will never own one of his cartridges.
The changes that might occur in a cartridge are relatively minor and do not explain the degree of change many people hear. I had a Clearaudio Talisman for a while. It has a reputation for being a bright cartridge, too much high end. It was but after a while the brightness seem to fade. Ok I thought. The cartridge is just loosening up. Eventually I switch back to another cartridge which for a while seemed dull but then it sounded fine. On switching back to the Talisman it became just as bright as when it was new. The only thing that was breaking in was my mind. We get use to things, the new norm. |
Well, with Peter’s experience and knowledge of personally designing, building, and re-tipping, I’m not sure I could say his statements and findings are "laughable". Perhaps you should email Peter and question his statements.
But again, you can think as you wish. |
~@bkeske, I think he is looking for a mechanism to placate the population. He is in business to sell cartridges. He can not just come out and attack people's sensibilities. Another thing. This is not rocket science. Phonograph cartridges are very simple devises. Electronics engineering and even speaker design are far more complicated subjects.
Peter's experience is in building and repairing cartridges. I would not know were to start in that regard and my hands are too shaky anyway. His designs are borrowed from others with some embellishment. |
I own an Audio Technica ART7 cartridge that I purchased new. At first, I did find it to be lean or clinical sounding, although from the start it was a champ at revealing detail and inner musical voices, as well as having a very articulate bass. Nevertheless, I usually got tired of it after about an hour per listening session. However, after 20-30 hours total, it began to shift in tonal emphasis toward the midrange and upper bass, and these days it is one of my favorite LOMC cartridges. (I own at least 20 cartridges of all types.) Despite the scoffing of MillerCarbon and Mijostyn, I would not attribute this change in my subjective experience of the ART7 solely to psychological adaptation to the sound of the ART7, because at any one time I am alternating among 3-4 different cartridges, running on any of the 5 turntables that are set up to feed two very different audio systems (3 turntables on one system, 2 turntables on the other). I rarely stick to only one combination of tt and cartridge for more than a few consecutive sessions. Thus, I don’t have a fixed mental reference for how music should sound in either of the two systems. The ART7 is not "training" me to hear it in any one particular way. I don’t know what is the mechanism for cartridges changing sound quality from new, but I do believe it happens. Think of it this way: cartridges can wear out for reasons other than stylus wear, so why shouldn’t they also "wear in"? So my advice to you is to give your new AT a little time, and hope for the best.
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In re-reading Miller Carbon's post, I see now that his idea is not really different from my experience of the ART7.
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I have similar to say about my AT440ML.
Initially it was just too bright, highly resolving - but also too etched for my longer term listening.
Now by some 'magic' switching it back in after some quite time of a long hiatus, it sounds just right.
One explanation I do have is, that I had changed in the meantime to an even more resolving XLR IC from preamp to amp, a Madrigal HPC.
Intuitively, this ought to have made things worse, yet it made that previously perceived up-tilt now sound more natural, maybe better integrated...?
Also it is now one of my best sounding cartridges, this even when compared to my Cadenza Black used with SUT!
M. 🇿🇦
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