Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
920 responses
@thecarpathian I have no idea but they come in handy to prevent cables from touch each other while they criss cross in the back of your setup. |
@bigtwin are you using a full cable loom? are you burnin in both interconnects and speaker cable at once? Just so you know, I have two runs of Chinese Odin speaker cable, one going from the low mids / bass amp to the bass horns, and one going from the mids/high amp to the mids/highs horns. Active crossover frequencies are 60 and 500Hz, with the <60Hz going to two active subs. Anyways, that’s just for context. When I first plugged the Odin speaker cable, I thought they sounded very nice, smooth and detailed, then things started to change for the worse, they became harsh and congested and just plain wrong sounding. I almost took them out of the system. My drivers average 105dB/W/m sensitivity, hence "normal" listening levels see only a tiny amount of current passing through the wires. Burn in wasn’t easy. To get enough current and speed things up, I would have to play at SPLs which are totally incompatible with any kind of neighborhood. In any case, after a long and very stressful period (I’m really not rich, so two runs of Odin speaker cable - even the Chinese version - max length, that is starting to represent some expense for my meagre wallet, and it’s not something you can easily resell, for sure, so I was bummed) the cables started to sound good again, then very very good. It’s the most extreme burn-in rollercoaster I've ever experienced. |
Ok, following up with my testing of the 1.5 meter fake Nordost Odin 2 XLR. I made preliminary comments when I first received them. Recounting a little, I used them to replace my Transparent Ultra between my ARC REF DAC and ARC REF 6SE. Find my earlier post. I burned them in on another system for at least 120 hours be for putting them back into my main system. I feel that burning them in has notably reduced the overt harshness and dropped the noise floor slightly. In comparison the the Transparent the fake Odin2 had a notably less dynamic presentation, the voices and mid-range less fleshed out with an overall less natural presentation, the background less quiet. I did not feel interested in continuing the experiment after three minutes… although I am sure I could greatly increase the details of my assessment with more time. Life is too short. Now how to communicate how big a difference. It was not huge… not even remotely component level or radio shack versus high end. But on the other hand, I am sure my partner who is not interested in my system and listens for five minutes every two years would have chosen the Transparent over the fake ODin2 in less than 10 seconds. For me, I have spent a lot of time and money to carefully get the most out of my system… they have no home here. Are these giant killers at $100… well no. But they are not terrible. My system is very detailed with a very deep and well defined soundstage… which very musical and natural. Through put anything not completely neutral in it, and you hear it. So, for me, they have no place in my system. I’ll throw them on the pile of extra interconnects I have. I have a couple friends that are building systems, I’ll lend them these, let them see what they think. I hope this is useful. In my younger days I would pull out my half dozen “standard” interconnects and compare: Harmonics, Straight Wire, Cardas, and a couple more. Folks in the Sub - $1000 purchase realm would have to compare themselves… which is usually the case anyway. They are very inexpensive.
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I replaced 2 WW XLR ICs ($$$$) and a Pangea Premier SE Coax ($MSRP $169) with fake Odin IIs (purchased from DIY HiFi). Out of curiosity, later I ordered a Odin Gold XLR. First I had it going to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 dac and the Fake Odin II to my LSA Voyager GaN 350. After a couple months, I kept thinking to swap the 2 XLRs: the improvement was amazing, so I ordered another Gold, which is scheduled to arrive in the next 2 weeks. Ill report once I get them broken in
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@decooney Yep + 100 imagine the improvements and getting real OCC copper. |
Well, for me… I am not interested in playing around with more cables… I did extensive research among well reviewed cables, auditioned and chose what worked best on my system. The only reason I tried these was because of this thread. I was interested in forming my own opinion. Once in a while, I go test my intuition. I will test things internally think just “couldn’t be”… to make sure I am maintain my objectivity. I remember nearly 18 years ago I was having an heated discussion with a climate change denier. I realized I had not refreshed my true knowledge for ten years. So, I went back and built my knowledge from scratch. I read source publications, NOAA, NASA, a couple summary books, fundamental peer review papers. I even deeply researched the two legitimate scientists that claimed climate change was not real… I literally found the tax documents showing one had received $500,000 from oil companies and that he had founded a radical fundamentalist church (the documents of him founding the church were on line… and news about it). Well, my internal knowledge was good on that one. Ok… sorry, got sidetracked.
So, if I needed cables would I buy and try these? No. I really do have an ethical problem… they are certainly no Nordost killers. There are lots of well reviewed cables at all price points available from companies that do their own research and development and cross no ethical boundaries. Buy from them. |
Seems like a reasonable option, considering you might learn a little more about what you are getting without cutting it open to discover the mystery prize inside. Compare a lower price authentic cable from a legitimate manufacturers product against a cheaply priced counterfeit one. One might be surprised which one actually sounds better.
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The "problem" with the Chinese knock offs is that there are so many variants of them that it is difficult to find any general consensus as to which one might be "the best". And it is a subjective hobby with subjective listening preferences. The reading that I’ve done (some here, most on other forums) suggested that the newer Odin Golds were the ones which rated the highest among users, but it would be fair to say that most of those users probably preferred a slightly warmer overall presentation in their interconnects, which was what I was interested in. I ordered a pair of Chinese Nordost Odin Gold IC’s (RCA to RCA with the fake Holo plugs) off Aliexpress to test them out and was very pleased with them. The end result: I ordered 4 more sets of IC’s at a total cost of $250 Cnd delivered-these replace IC’s in both my main and secondary system. I sold off two sets of very highly thought of interconnects in the main system (one was 1.5 m and the other .7 m) that have a retail price of $800 Cnd. (I bought one set new and one used) for $500, put $250 in my pocket and ended up with much better performance in both systems. Consider me happy. I might cryo and have the fake Odin Golds burned in after that at some point, but even without that treatment they definitely outperformed a very good set of OCC copper IC’s terminated with genuine Furutech plugs. Hard to believe that anyone buying the Chinese Odin Golds with the holo plugs at $50 a pop for 1M pairs would be disappointed. |
@roxy54 they are from seller “Audio Accessary” https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804102330185.html the seller was great. Talked via chat and ordered on night of Oct 16th and received today. They said choose the free shipping and sent via FedEx IP. The listing is with gold bananas but I asked if they could do the rhodium VB401R bananas which they sell separately and they said sure. Very happy. Great built quality and sound great so far. |
Few years back I did what ghdprentice did, but in reverse way. At the time I had full Burmester system (001, 011, 956mk2) and had the opportunity to get my hands on original Nordost Odins' (first series) Ic's and power cables. (without speaker wires) Used quite qood AQ Sterling Audiotruth cables andthe speakers were SF Guarneri H. Even had an another amp (Krell Evo 302) because I wanted to compare directly Krell to Burmester (wrote a small post about it on Ag as well) To cut long story short, the Odins were really great, even between Krell amp and Burmester preamp (tried that combination as well aldo somehow I thought that Krell and Nordost would not be a match, but it prooved to be otherwise) I am sure that there are enough descriptions on web about the 'sound' of Odins, so no need trying to be 'poetic' about it now. Just to say that they are much 'better' than Valhalla's (had them too, except the speaker wire) and without 'that typical' Nordost 'sound' which may or may not be prefered by some. Now the interesting part. While I had them, I tried few other IC's on place of one or another IC, just to see how big the difference would be. The cables I swap were mostly different AQ silver IC's (Diamond x3, Cheetah and Blue Yonder and Wireworld gold eclipse, cant remeber which number) I did not like the BY, but with rest I 'could live', aldo I admit that generally I do not like or use Cheetah (not all AQ silver cables are 'good' in my humble opinion) While changing cables I realised that finding Ic's that could replace Odin's would be easier that finding different power cables that could do so, but the reason for it might be because they 'complement' with Burmester gear very nicely. After series of different cable trials I have found one not overly expensive Synergistic Resaarch power cable that worked great on my Burmester 001 player ( still have that cable now on even better B. 089 player) On the other hand, I gave one power cable for a loan to a firend who had ARC Ls 17 se and he said that he prefferd that sound (arc 17 with Odin) more than his later ARC 27 with some other cables, if that information is worth to anybody. (maybe he just did not try many cables on that preamp) My point is that nobody should 'lust' over real Odin's (or anything else for that matter, but thats another story) because, Imho, no matter how 'good' they sound, they are afterall system dependent (like everything else) and will work best on very pricey gear but for far amount less money man can find cables that will provide him quite 'good' sound, even more so if one's gear is not in that category (if price is any indication of quality) With cables that are long on market, more or less you know what kind of 'sound' you might expect (more people have them and you can read other experiences or try those cables easier) and with that chinese stuff, aldo not expensive, its just one shot, hit or miss. At the end, as some wise man said, the most expensive things are ones that you do not need, no matter how cheap they might be. You might discovery what 'house' sound those chinese cables have (that could be helpful for others too) but with so many of you buying those cables (and in the same time you all have very different systems) I simply cant believe that those cables are good for all of you...or that you cant find something 'better' just for your system...just my 2 cent, as they say...
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@roxy54 writing on sphone is something that I hate even with short tmsg, not to mention for posts here. English is not my native language but if you have problem understanding the text, which is quite simple, I might try drawing it to you, like they do in books for small children... |
@alexatpos most figured it out the first time reading it. Ignore the grammar nazis. |
@alexatpos +10+10.
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@kray not even the same as what their product page shows. Sorry skipped over the rhodium part. Hope they work out. For $100 more you would get free shipping real silver core and OCC copper. zafinousa.com and supported a North American Small Business. Just saying a bargain is in the eye and ear of the beholder.
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@juanmanuelfangioii pretty sure you didn’t read my post at all. Pure silver. No copper. I asked for custom build with Rhodium bananas. No desire to explain my purchases to you. Not sure why you’re still posting in this thread when it’s violating your ethics. |
@juanmanuelfangioii i have over $4k worth of Audio Art cables and over $10l spent with Rob at AAC over last year. Free country bro. Spend my money as I please. |
These aren’t counterfeit but they certainly are Chinese. The 1.5m version is on sale at Amazon at the moment with a coupon that reduces the delivered price to about $80 if you have a Prime membership. At that price, I took a flyer. Viborg 02VA801 Premium XLR... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H1NMG63?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share Mine were delivered two days after I ordered. I now am burning them in. Build quality is excellent, by appearances, and, right out of the box, these sound better than they have a right to. Not sure yet whether they are "superb" but they sound a ton better than any $80 cable has any right to sound. Surprisingly, 1m and 2m versions are considerably more expensive, but these are flexible and I had no trouble fitting them into the space previously occupied by 1m cables. |
Yep unlike the PRC @kray . $10K? or 10l Liters? Viborg is just inexpensive no counterfeiting. Spend it how you like while you still can. Enjoy the rest of your weekend bro. God Bless America. |
I did buy the Rhodium ones when a few months ago. Have them on my subs. Who can verify any of the claims made re "single crystal copper" whatever that even means. Sounds like a play of OCC but at this price, let's get real. Very solid build and the male ends really grip in the socket. It's very hard to justify spending more, unless you are a firm believer that one good "power" cable is going to change the sound more than any other good power cable. |
I also bought the rhodium power cord mentioned by @tweak1 and while it was not a good match for my DAC, it was a great match on my power amp and displaced an expensive shunyata high current cord. I was so impressed I bought another one and am using it on my preamp. Definitely worth trying since it is so inexpensive. |
@ghdprentice over the course of the last month I’ve ordered some Odin Gold RCA interconnects from 3 different vendors, at similar prices, all using pictures that don’t allow you to tell differences if there are any as you purchase them. -The first order sounds very good, connectors are on the flimsy side but, the inside construction mimics the genuine HoloPlugs, with low mass design, and great sound. -the second order, with STRICTLY IDENTICAL WIRE, had more solid feeling plugs that were unfortunately impossible to take apart, that only LOOKED remotely like Holoplugs from the outside but on closer look are just basic heavy brass (? or worse) connectors with thick metal construction. Those cables sounded truly awful, flat and dead and "dark", like a low-pass filter had been used. I returned them all (without any hassle). -the third and last order came from a store that I’m accustomed to and never disappoints (AudioConnector store) and I thought would be identical to the first order, but it is NOT. This time the wire itself is slightly different (you can see it when you lay the cables side by side) and the plugs are yet another version of the Holoplugs, similar to the first order with low mass connectors, but a bit more solid feeling. This cable sounds great too, very slightly different from the first one, but very good.
All this to say, there are indeed many variants which use the same stock photos and are sold at similar prices, and it can be a real crapshoot. Get the best ones, and you will be rewarded with sound quality way above the asking price. Get the wrong ones, and you will wonder what the fuss is all about. My advice would be to stick with products that show the best buyer reviews, and sellers that consistently sell you good sounding cables. Having the possibility to return without hassle is also recommended, some sellers offer that option, some don’t. Are they giant killers? I never owned any truly high end cables, but I’ve owned a few different VanDenhul including the full carbon offerings, a few entry-level Nordost, QED (well ok that’s definitely entry level), Mogami (just for a try), Fadel Arts, and I’ve tried a couple of Dutch pure silver cables whose brand name I forgot (very small company). All those cables (if you exclude the Mogami) were 2 to 4x more expensive than the average "Nordeast Odin" cables, probably more than that for the Dutch silver cables, and I vastly prefer the Chinese cables in my system. Doesn’t make them giant killers, but good value - which isn’t so bad already. I also have a couple of internet buddies who have replaced their 3K to 5K cables with fake Odin, which is maybe more a matter of system synergy, or personal taste, but it’s worth mentioning - without making too much fuss about it. In the end, is it reasonable to compare a 60$ cable with a 6000$ cable? I’m not sure. The fact that, in some cases, it can come close enough, sure is impressive but might just be some very subjective opinion. After all, there are people who PREFER to use 30$ Mogami cables. Then there are the power cables. Those are quite new to me, in general, as I kept the stock cables for very long. And I don’t have much to compare. But, there’s a HUUUUUGE gap between, say, a DIY effort based on Ollflex cable, or a similar "artisanal" entry level sold through eBay or Amazon, and a similarly priced fake Odin. The last Odin Gold power cord I purchased, which looks cheesy as hell and costs just 58$ for about 4 feet, may very well be the very best power cord I own, instantly bringing my system up a few notches, with better midrange detail, much deeper stage, blacker backgrounds, tighter bass, better transparency... not something that usually happens with a 58$ power cord. Hell, with most 58$ power cords, you barely hear any difference. In the end, it’s all a lot of fun, with some (rare, in my case) disappointments along the way, and not much money spent. |
If you look closely, you will be able to tell some difference between the products. For instance, look at the same cable you bought but on RM Digital. Though I don’t know where you purchased yours, I can bet the markings on the cables are the same color: either both silvery white or both black. The real Nordost has the makings on one cable white and on the other black. RM Digital has the markings the same way. The price is probably double what you paid for yours also. It’s my experience that this particular store is more peculiar and their offerings are closer to the original. I can’t vouch for how they sound compared to the other stores but if attention to details any indication… |
@spenav the cables sold by RM Digital are a VERY different lot, much more expensive, and you can immediately recognize them even just looking at pictures, especially when it comes to the latest "Odin Gold" generation. They use a totally different wire. I'm sure they probably are very good, and well built, but the thing is, most positive reviews that you read online are for the cheap ones sold through some other stores, at a 1/4 of the price of the RM offerings. and indeed, the "cheap" versions (at least those that come from good vendors and ave been put together with care) DO sound fantastic. Maybe I'll try some RM at some point but, I need a lot of cables, and there's a point were "attention to detail" doesn't matter if the difference is mainly cosmetics (I don't care if my cables don't look like the real deal, I just buy them for the sound quality and low price). |
@rolox that’s an excellent summary which all but mirrors my experience. I have found that it’s been a (generalised, YMMV) 5:1 value ratio, i.e a $50 IC cable on AE buys you its $250 US equivalent in performance. Of course that doesn’t consider system synergy, but I’ve now tried enough of them (9 ICs now, all well reviewed or reliably recommended on forums) to average out my experience. Some have bettered and others haven’t met that comparison, but ALL have been significantly better than they deserved to be for the price. I’ve otherwise favoured Transparent, Audioquest and Wireworld cables. |
@spenav I totally agree and have been trying to tell people here to pay the $30-40 extra and get the RM Digital versions. They seem much better quality than some of the other AliEx Odin knock offs. |
Wood blocks on the Authentic Nordost cables serve to direction. Also they conform to the cable to help reduce vibrations and noise. As with most reverse engineered products from offshore suppliers they do not have the IP or engineering capacity to understand the implementation of these technologies. So grinding or chiseling those blocks off the knockoff product will not be detrimental as I highly doubt their product is directional, ultrasonically treated (burn in).
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As per previous HiFi DIY china cable purchases, they beat their estimated delivery time by almost a week. I received the Odin 2 gold PC yesterday (now one on my Audiolab 6000 CDT and LSA Voyager GaN 350 amp. I applied the Mad Scientist Contact Enhancer then plugged it in. Seemed subtly better (quieter= deeper sound stage) Letting it play all day today but softly as I do chores. Will listen later |
@tweak1 I also own two Gold PCs. One on my active crossover, one on my DAC. The most impact was with the active crossover but on the DAC (the last I bought) I get deeper soundstage, quieter / more controlled highs, more details, and a tighter bass. On the active crossover I got all those improvements too and a much larger image on top of that, very impressive. All in all, despite the ridiculously low price (60$ each) the cheesy looks and the fact that the gold leaf around each wire apparently doesn’t work at all as screening, those two Gold cables are the best PCs I own. Impressive! |
@rolox may I ask please which store you bought your Odin Gold PCs from, or the item number (it's in the web address)? |
I have had the Nordost Odin 2 Chinese cables for a while now. Since I am using my reference Infigo cables full time I wondered where I could use the knock offs. They do sound pretty good especially for the price. Since I have a 1 meter and a 3-meter XLR set’s, I thought I would try them on my JL F-113 subs. You know what? They make a very good, articulate, and powerful subwoofer cable. They have now replaced my previous favorite subwoofer cables. ozzy |
Just looking at the Odin Gold Power Cord from RM Digital Store. In Canadian dollars they are asking $249 for a 1 meter cord. Most other sites calling their product Odin Gold are $50 - $60 CDN. That's a huge price difference with RM and brings their product in line with many US or Canadian made power cords. I spent a few hundred dollars on Furutech knock offs and they greatly diminished the sound of my system. Would be reluctant to spend the kind of money RM is asking? |
