To your other point I will never buy a used cable here or on USAM after reading this.
Given my experience, I am not so sure even if buying new from a dealer will get you an authentic one, always 😃
Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
920 responses
@thyname not real sure on AQ product. They do make a counterfeit statement on their website. I was referring to Nordost products and Kimber that claim US manufacturing. I am also not saying they are going offshore I truly believe these folks in China are making counterfeit product. Looking at the all of the manufactures websites they have a page on "counterfeits" so it is a real issue. That is why I buy from guys like Signal Cable and Zafino real quality at a real price. |
You are absolutely right. They are not replicas. I opened a Neardost gold power cable and confirmed that. On the other hand, these power cables have no right to sound the way they do. That part I cannot explain. I know it’s not confirmation or expectation bias, I am always honest with myself. Just cannot unhear what I am hearing. What’s the secret sauce? |
On a slightly different note from copies of US made cables, what about the cables that are clearly marked as made in China. Many look to be very well made and a fraction of the cost of US product? And still others are almost as expensive. I purchased a 5 meter RCA cable from Morrow, on sale at 55% off and it still set me back $800 Canadian. I see a Chinese made cable at a slighly higher price, offering PURE silver wiring. Set aside the argument of silver vs copper as th better choice, has anyone had first hand experience with these higher priced, made in China cables?
|
@spenav I understand your comment and would agree if looking at $100 product. Would still like to hear from people having first hand experience with the "hign end" Chinese made cables. I assume most of the folks on this site are able to tell the difference between quality made and shoddy goods. Returning something to China would be a real pain? No sence in me making a bad choice if someone here can give some advice? |
@roxy54 That is why many use blind testing. Eliminates bias, but you are right I do not care. I refuse to support this business when there are companies like Blue Jeans, Zafino, Signal Cable, Raven Audio that make product in the US and Canada that have the quality, and performance to compete with the brands being counterfeited. |
@spenav I'm chuffed those cables are working nicely in your setup, I'm far from the authority on cables, but I think if you know your system decently well you can make some educated guesses and use cables to tune the sound and improve the synergy. Like I've noticed that if speakers are sounding a bit dull you can use cables with a bit of silver to add a little sparkle, likewise if things are a bit edgy copper can darken the sound and gold can smooth it out a little. I won't pretend to know the scientific reasons why. I've also seen people tune their amp by using different fuses, like silk or beeswax! I actually used a gold-plated fuse to power a previous amp and it did make a subtle difference to the sound, so my guess is that materials make the difference in the signal transmission, which could be beneficial or detrimental depending on the circumstances. That might be why I'm not in favor of counterfeit cables, I don't see a reason why a counterfeit cable should automatically sound 'bad', it's either of a constitution that works well with your system or it isn't, and when it's being sold as one thing when actually it's another, I think that must make it harder for the consumer to intelligently tune their system, especially if they don't know it's a counterfeit. |
@bigtwin You can support a company in Canada, Makes a fantastic product, ships free and cost less than a knockoff. |
@juanmanuelfangioii Thanks for that tip. I just looked at their site. A similar product, being copper & silver plate, is $350 for a 1.5 meter length. I have sent them a message to see if they will build the 5 meter cables I require. This is the cable I am looking at from China. 5 meters pair for $168 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004650557944.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.68e638da540cNB&mp=1
|
Well on that note I just plugged in the Odin Gold 2 power cable and there is more air and mids are a little more detailed or pronounced. Bass is a little deeper. Backgrounds seems to be quite just like the stock power cable. Sound stage is taller and wider. I might have lost some depth. I don't know if I like the pronounced mids or am I getting more detail. Time will tell. Definitely worth the 67.00. The Gold 2 Interconnects have been in the system for about 2 weeks I think and that was a big hit. I'm using that between my DAC and amp. Listening to Patricia Barber Cafe Blue |
yeah, check with continuity tester. Moreover, its always good to check the AC voltage connecting the hot + neutral, hot + earth, neutral + earth to make sure the polarity is correct and the reading are as expected. I do that for well know brand anyways just to be on the safer side. I also do DIY power cords, so I am far from getting scared. I don’t own any Ali’s power cord but they aren’t that dumb to not make the basics right. The construction as I see from the images at Ali are solid and robust, sometimes far better than some US brands. Manufacturing defect is another issue but that can happen with well known brands as well. |
So I'll go out on a limb here and state what should be obvious to all. There are too many comments along this line "You are absolutely right. They are not replicas. I opened a Neardost gold power cable and confirmed that. On the other hand, these power cables have no right to sound the way they do. That part I cannot explain. I know it’s not confirmation or expectation bias, I am always honest with myself. Just cannot unhear what I am hearing. What’s the secret sauce?" When we all know these are not the original cables being sold for pennies on the dollar, is it not apparent that you don't need to have fancy treated copper, gold plated connectors and a litany of other materials to get great sound? Cardas $10,000 cables or $200 from China. A difference you can hear worth $9800? The story of the Emperor with no clothes comes to mind. And before anyone starts jumping on the cables make a difference bandwagon, go back and re read the entire thread. IMHO. |
Here is a conversation I just had with a vendor on AliExpress. Are these cables made with genuine Furutech cable & connectors, or are they simply a high quality immitation? Read 10:47
你好，是我们自己生产的线，是高质量的仿制品。请问您能接受吗？
Hello, it is our own production line, it is a high-quality imitation. Can you accept it? Alibaba Translation 17:27 Yes, as long as the quality is very good. Thanks Read
好的，质量是很好的，感谢您的支持。 OK, the quality is very good, thank you for your support. Alibaba Translation I post again in a month, after I have recieved them and tried them out. |
@evank The "real" picture has been meticulously prepared by Furutech to showcase their product. I'm thinking if you took the same care and attention they did, you could make the "fake" cable look almost as good? You're also comparing two different product lines? They make a replica cable that looks identical to the real thing. Same outer casing right down to the lettering of the name. You appear to doing a bit of an apple to orange comparison? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's lots of crap product out there and even the best replicas may not be as good as the real thing. Just not sure if the difference between the real and the good fakes can warrant costing 10 - 20 times as much. |
If it looks the same, and has the same component materials and layout, and sounds the same… ? |
Been following this thread for awhile… just ordered two pairs of what I’ve decided to call “Nordin Odost” XLR off AliExpress, not looking to be bowled over by performance, but simply because I have a pressing need for a couple pairs of balanced interconnects and they were priced similarly to the other more basic cables I was looking at on Amazon. |
@spenav looking at the Odin range of products, there are more similarities than differences in build geometry and general ideas between the counterfeit and the genuine - if you exclude the speaker cables whose counterfeit are spirals and not flat ribbons like the genuine. The fake Odin interconnects for example could be using basic multi strand wire in a sleeve that looks like the real thing from the outside, but no, you DO find the silver plated solid core wires in a spiral arrangement and even the tiny thread that separates each core from its teflon sleeve is there. And so is the screening sleeve. So of course the genuine will have much more attention to detail and better materials and everything but looking at the counterfeit I'm absolutely not surprised it sounds so good. The basics are there. |
@spenav it’s also no surprise that the best sounding Odin counterfeits are those who are using the best copy of Nordost’s Holoplugs. I recently ordered a few pairs of Odin Gold RCA ICs; from two different vendors and at very similar prices. The first pair uses Holoplug RCAs that use the same general ideas (very low mass) and same connection scheme of the + and return wires as the genuine, and it sounds very very good. The second order uses EXACTLY the same wire but uses basic heavy brass RCA plugs that only look like Holoplugs from the outside shell. Those were extremely disppointing sound wise and I had to return them for a refund. The devil is often in the details! |
One Nordost secret sauce is their quality connectors, as Rolox has pointed out above. But their main claim to unique tech is the single/dual micro mono-filament technology, and the mathematical lay/winding process. |
In my opinion,any “name brand” selling on Alibaba is a counterfeit. That being said,I have purchased a “PS Audio AC12 power cord about three years ago for $79. It has been in use since it was delivered,and works good for a $79 cable. I will give it away before I sell it. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night having someone think they got an authentic PS cable for cheap.
|
Hmm… now you’ve got me wondering which ones I ended up ordering… Do you happen to remember which vendor had the better connectors? |
@rfnoise the Gold Odin RCA with the good sounding connectors is this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004390953007.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802dqG3tr there are probably others, of course. But it’s impossible to tell from the pictures (the two vendors I tried for the Gold Odin use exactly the same pictures). The connectors will feel cheap and flimsy, the rear part of the shell is plastic, but they SOUND good. There is another vendor that usually sells good stuff, it's the AudioConnector Store. I haven't bought any Gold IC from him so I don't know which version he sells but I've bought quite a few other things and it was all good. |
The ones I ordered were the non-gold version from “hifi-diy store”. I just picked the one that seemed to have the most unit sales and positive reviews. Maybe I’ll think about trying a pair of the ones you provided a link to as well. I’m sure in the past I’ve spent more than $40 on countless things more frivolous and less interesting than comparing two cables out of sheer curiosity. |
My AliExpress $0.02 on this, the addition of a non-Chinese brand name to Chinese cables is pure humour. With China, you get what you pay for, and there are some excellent cable options from AliE and China. Xangsane silver cabling, a fair degree of AT Audio’s stuff - it is just excellent. The branded stuff can be far lower quality, but with China, money talks, if it’s $20, you’ll be sent a $20 cable. Spend $200, you’ll be sent something pretty great that absolutely comes close to $1k+ NA or EU cables - as a general rule of course... |
I open up the internals of the power cable. Look decent. Check the picture out: https://ibb.co/b3jt6jn Glad I open it up to check the connectors. |
So I just started listing with the new power cable. Click on the link below to see the product. My old one is from Amazon. My new one is from AliExpress. I am not sure if I am crazy about placebo effects. Sound like the new cable is more forward. They should sound the same. This is very weird now that I have experienced this. It's very subtle, not sure if I can pick this out in a blind test. |
picture The top picture is a fake Furutech and the bottom is real