Why should they sound the same? They certainly don't look the same.
"I am not sure if I am crazy about placebo effects."
What does that mean? You don't like them, or you don't believe in them?
Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
920 responses
I bought the Odin 2 Gold power cable, and I plugged it in, and the sound was forward in the Mids. It needs time to settle in. Right now, I'm burning it in on my garage fridge and I will try it again over the weekend. I haven't tried the Furutech yet. I'm using this to attach to the fridge. I wonder if it's from China
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@roxy54 it's difficult to understand why they will sound different, copper, same length and thickness. The same question can be posed the opposite way, why do they should sound different? |
Congratulations @juanmanuelfangioii ! Zavfino is certainly great value for the money. I do see you upgrading to Silver Dart in no time 😉 |
Been very surprised with the quality of these braided power cords. Use 2 of them on my second (mid-fi) system’s amp and power conditioner and they made a significant improvement over a DIY KimberKable 12TC with ground. Better clarity, cleaner more defined highs and bass. They needed at least 50 hours break in. Amazing how these cords can sound this good for $35. Would be interesting how these compare to the Odin since they have similar looking silver plated 12 core wire. * bought 1 black sleeved and 1 clear no sleeve. They use same cables. |
@roxy54 yes I have opened it up and confirmed it is silver plated wire. Very well constructed. I added a second 10ga copper ground wire to the ground terminal on the plug to connect it directly to a Russ Andrews RF Router MK II which does an excellent job of removing noise to improve clarity. It’s my effort to replicate RA’s EVO-S PowerKord floating grounding method. Time will tell how if it adds a benefit. Fun giving it a go with these low cost power cords.
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@roxy54 that might be my error…I saw the silver wire and assumed it is plated at this price. A lot of these descriptions can be misleading. They mention silver purity etc and say 5NOCC but don’t mention plated copper. Oops! At this price I just cannot see it being all silver. Next time I open one up I will remove the wires anD give it a good look. |
@roxy54 ok curiosity got the best of me so I opened one up and can confirm it is silver plated copper not solid. |
Another thing I’m curious about is the quality of the ubiquitous “carbon fiber plug” connectors (xlr/rca/5-15p) and whether or not they’re any good. They appear on a ton of cables on AliExpress, including several of the Nordost knockoffs. Heck, I have a pair of Underwood HiFi’s $400 gold series interconnects that use these connectors. As an aside, I have a sneaking suspicion that these cables are sourced through the same channels as the much cheaper cables we’re seeing on AliExpress.For instance, the $349 Underwood gold series power cable looks pretty much identical to the ones sold on AliExpress as an Accuphase/shuko cable. https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/linx https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/valiant https://m.aliexpress.com/item/33016795882.html?gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite
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I have been observing the used market a lot recently, prompted by this thread. Focused on just one product : Audioquest Dragon power cords. Have been looking at the pictures of Ali Express closely, and what’s for sale here in US, used sites. I am afraid the majority of what’s available “used” is from Ali Express. I am 100% certain. Major giveaways other than actual pictures, 1) lack of cartoon outer cover (none of Ali stuff has that), 2) they are all previous generation, older braiding and writing on the plugs. 3) Color. Audioquest never made light gray nylon braid.
Be careful out there.
I am seriously thinking about getting one from Ali Express, and stripping it down to see what’s inside. They sell for less than $300. Worth the curiosity. Most of these sellers claim privately is the same source material coming from the same factory. They are all honest though, they never say it’s Audioquest. Just uncertified cable using the same materials from the same factory. “Replica” is the major key word. I guess using the logo and exact description wording is totally legal for those people. Wild Wild West 🤦♂️ |
For those who were interested in the Odin Gold RCA ICs, I bought mine from the "audioconnector" store here: https://a.aliexpress.com/_msRQjL6 and they sound exceptional. A smidgeon shy of my Transparent Musiclink Plus RCAs. I’ve also just received these T Labs RSC Vector-2 ICs |
Before you buy and strip apart the lower cost AE purchased version, listen [back and forth over 30 days] and compare the sound to the authentic USA purchased version. This is what really matters. Then call Cardas and ask them to share with you a few stories of the fakes that get sent in [by curious and unknowing customers] for authenticity certification. Ask them where some of these other large well-known USA Mfgs source their copper from. They likely won’t share this, but you get the drift. You can make really good pasta and really good cookies with a great recipe and amazing ingredients and they taste fantastic. Or use a generic recipe made with crap ingredients, well...I digress. Best of luck on the mission to find real quality and value for great sound.
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Top US Companies OFHC Wire: Top US Suppliers Raw: https://www.thomasnet.com/products/oxygenfree-high-conductivity-ofhc-copper-19751700-1.html
Top Companies producing OFHC Copper are:
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Nothing to do with the Chinese building stuff from their garage. Kudos to them. This is about counterfeit cables. Using other people’s brand names, logos, technology, design, IP, to come up with their “replicas”, imitation, copy/ cats. That’s completely ethical to you? |
I started the original topic, which ran for several pages, when I bought pairs of fake Cardas and Nordost Odin interconnects out of curiosity. I still have these and continue to be most impressed by the SQ and value for money. Recently I bought a new power amp which was balanced only and as I did not have a pair of XLR terminated interconnects and the amp purchase had exhausted my available funds to the extent I couldn't afford quality genuine cables, I went for a pair of the fake Chinese Odins. Much to my surprise the cost was cheaper ( A$60.00 including shipping and taxes) and the quality, if anything, was even better. The XLR connectors were marked Nordost Odin and the quality surpassed any other XLR connectors I had previously used. Did I feel guilty - yes fleetingly but that passed as I am an aged pensioner not a wealthy US businessman or ex businessman. Ok so my integrity level might have slipped somewhat but what about the integrity of US cable manufacturers or rather assemblers who charge the cost of a well appointed car for a 1metre pair of interconnects. Incidentally since I bought the initial pair of fake Odins I have been receiving unsolicited newsletters from Nordost. Coincidence or what? |
Say more. Cannot imagine. What might you be thinking of or suggesting?
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@thyname have you seen the world we live in? I'm all in to make the world a better place but I doubt shaming a bunch of audiophile geeks buying counterfeit audio cable is the place to start... |
@rolox : I was not shaming anyone. I was simply pointing out what I saw wrong with the picture the poster painted. You do you. How you spend your money is none of my business. Your money, you can support whom ever you desire |
Heavenly? @thyname |
Recently bought a Benchmark Media AHB2 amp and their DAC3L. They sell/make their own cables and identify most of the OEM they use. I made my own DIY cables using the same products and Cardas solder. Their 3ft RCA interconnect is $35. Their locking power cable is $20. They report these are the same cables they use in house. I made my own so I could have precise lengths and the color jackets of my choosing. I wonder why they don't know about the wonder of uber high end cabling? Hmmm... Or maybe their equipment is so good that they don't need $10000 cables to sound great. Wouldn't mind seeing some A/B testing with their cables.
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Most people here know I completely rewired my system with Neardost mostly Odin 2 IC/PCs, BUT, after wards I saw the Gold and had to try it to compare. I placed it on my Audiolab 6000 CD transport and the Odin 2 on my LSA Voyager GaN 350 amp. I have been curious to find out how much (if any difference) swapping them would make. Last night I finally did, and it was a WOW moment. Today I am ordering another Gold to replace the Odin 2 powering the transport |
Ok. I got my set of fake Odin 2 XLR interconnects today. While not broken in, I do generally remember what my Transparent Ultra XLR (current generation… $3,150) sounded like when I put them in. I put the new Odin2 between my DAC and preamp Audio Research REF CD9se DAC and Audio Research REF6se preamp. Incidentally, the same position I once had real Odin2. The new Odin sound compressed, harsh, trebly, lacking bass definition… not quiet or smooth. While the Transparent sounded better with time, they never sounded anywhere this bad. I really could not listen to them for more than a couple minutes… they were actually uncomfortable to listen to. Reminding me of inexpensive silver… are they really made of silver? I figures they were colored silver on top of copper. I have listened to the real Nordost Odin 2 in my system…. There is absolutely no similarity. Not that one could reasonably expect it. This certainly reminded me how much of a difference a single set of interconnects can make. I was thinking that since all my other sets of interconnections were very high quality, maybe one set would not matter that much. Wow, that’s not right. So, I need to break them in. I’ll have to pull out my break in system. All my systems are tube, so I have a separate system with only a couple small tubes for breaking in stuff. I’ll have to put a few weeks on them to see how much the calm down. |
I have absolutely zero problems with Chinese branded genuine, honest audio cables brands. I am sure they are great value for the money. My issue is with the outright violation of IP rights and use of brand names. True story: I have bought a bunch of stuff from Ghent. Awesome guy to deal with, great products, no lies, no violations of anything. Ethical: https://www.ghentaudio.com
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I think these were about $110 delivered. I certainly did not think they would sound like the real thing. But I am a scientist… and couldn’t help but want to actually know what I was talking about.
My interest was, we’re these actually “made in the same way”, so they were really complete rip offs and sounded very similar… with some compromises. Or, alternatively, like Mexican Salsa in Eastern Montana. Yeah… “it is red” in photos… and looks a lot like ketchup… let’s use ketchup!
Yes, when bicycling across Montana and going into “Mexican” restaurants I got served ketchup as salsa with chips (having lived next to the Mexico boarder and spent a couple years living in Mexico, I can assure everyone salsa tastes is nothing like ketchup… anywhere in Mexico. So my conclusion is that Chinese Nordost Odin 2 knock offs are nothing like the real Nordost Odin 2. They only look like it. Ok, not a surprise… but I know this from experience not just thinking.
I was in charge of all information technology at a global semiconductor company (Burr-Brown Corporation) in 1999. I needed to assess the risk of the “millennium bug” shutting our system and consequently putting us out business when the date flipped over to 2000. I read these ridiculous books that premised that “this chip” has an embedded date with the year represented as two digits (like ‘99, as opposed to 1999) and therefore chips are in 60% of the mechanical devices on earth… so they will all fail. Utter nonsense. None of these idiots actually sampled the percentage of components with the problem and did the legwork to figure out which devices and consequently systems would be vulnerable. What BS. I would read the first few chapters of this stuff and toss it in the garbage. We, upgraded two systems… (a couple million dollars)… and not a single system failed… I was there at corporate headquarters when we powered down all our system a couple minutes before midnight and brought them back up a couple minutes after. Yawning, and heading home a half hour later. |
@rfnoise that Underwood power cord is definitely exactly the same as the "Accuphase" branded PC sold on AliExpress. I have a couple of them, they're OK and look great, but I would NEVER pay 300$ for one. They are 20$ on Ali. For 300$ you can buy two extremely good PC on Ali... |
@rickysnit exactly, Chinese counterfeit have been there forever, they're a part of life and one could say they're a cultural thing - in the meantime Rolex has never sold so many genuine watches, stores are empty as there is too much demand vs production, with prices skyrocketing in the stratosphere, and I'm not overly worried about LVMH either - smame as I'm not worried for Nordost! In the end I would say those counterfeit cables hurt the smaller, less known brands more because they can sound just as good for a fraction of the cost. |
@ghdprentice you must have bought some very bad fake Odin. If I except the last Odin "Gold" ICs I returned because they sounded overly smooth and dead, I’ve never had a single fake Odin sounding bad. Some take a bit longer to burn in. But I’ve never had a single one sounding harsh, trebly, compressed - maybe slightly congested and dynamically challenged before burn in, but that goes away quite fast. In any case they all turned way better than they have a right to be at the price - and I vastly prefer them to all my "genuine" cables which include VanDenHul and (entry level) Nordost. Bear in mind I’ve never tried any off their XLR cables, only RCA, but still, I guess you just purchased some very bad version (bad solder, wrong use of the cable geometry, whatever). The speaker cables were the only ones sounding very bad at some point. They took ages to break in in my system due to the very high sensitivity of my speakers and the very low current traveling through the cables. At some point they became so harsh and congested and bass shy that I almost took them out of the system, but I’m glad I didn’t, because they now sound fantastic, smooth open and transparent. Of course I never compared them to the real Odin cables, but in my opinion the right versions of the counterfeit cables can easily compete with cables at 10x the price, which is already not so bad. |
It’s interesting to me the amount of pearl-clutching generated here by obviously fake knockoffs being sold to informed people who never would/could buy the real deal, whereas the idea of sourcing dirt-cheap cables from China and marketing them at a greater than 10x markup is something that no one seems to bat an eyelash at.
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I checked Ghent out, they use AliExpress material!! Palic Chinese connectors, 'Canare' cable, that's funny... |
Canare cable is manufactured in Japan. I am currently using Canare interconnects (Redco) and speaker cable (Blue Jeans), as are many here and I am told recording studios often use them. These Ghent cables seem fairly priced, I am not sure why you are implying negatively about them. |
