Looking for perfection (I know it doesnot exist) I was wondering if a change to polyprop caps for the elco's in my psu (tube preamp) was the answer. Buying and trying them was fun (for the hobby) but although it cause an improvement to the elco's I miss something, a bit. Than Claritycap comes with the 450V 4-poly Kelvin polyprops. I buy two of them and .....wow! The sound becomes more crispier, tighter, has more weight, you can hear the acoustics better.
Has someone the same experience (or not)? |
It seems that Krell Service is now using for their full-recap service work for FPB series the Nichicon PS(M) capacitors.
Has anyone compared these with Nichicon gold line? FG, KZ, FW, KW?
http://www.nichicon-us.com/english/products/alm_mini/pict_f.htm
Thanks!
p.s. My external crossovers are still not ready. |
Psvane's getting around 100 hours on them now. So far in early testing they are quiet but do not have the tonality of the Genalex Gold Lions. I am burning them in in the phase inverter section which they seem good in but have had them in the pre-amp several times. So far with a slight greyish tone? The difference so far is the Genalex makes the performance come alive and seem real the Psvane's more HiFi.
This thread started with value of parts idea. I would spend my money first on capacitors and for sure that over some obscure tube unless the tube is an investment? A Duelund CAST or even a Jensen Copper foil paper tube is massively bigger than many other capacitors the difference is tubes is not so great but I think this is to be expected as one tube is not 30x bigger than another like a capacitor can be.
When I bought my CAST tweeter caps there was not the volume discount on 630v types. Curious if the physically bigger ones sound better than 100v caps? |
Finally i got my Duelund components. Installed them in my xovers yesterday, but had to go over everything this morning again. Playing my first couple of songs as i write. First impression is very good indeed. How long should i expect before the Duelund components are sounding as they should? What are your experience? |
There was an immediate improvement in the sound with the CAST installed in my speakers and also my DAC. The sound quality steadily increased over the next several hundred hours it seems. I'd say most of the change occurred in the first 100 hours. I'd recommend them to anyone without a trace of hesitation.
Charles, |
I also noticed immediate changes. Pretty big ones to. I have placed one CAST cu cap, one CAST PIO inductor and one VST Cap in my filter. The CAST PIO replaced my North Creek inductor. I had already changed all resistors to Duelund CAST. What i hear is a significant better separation, resolution and dynamics. Voices sounds wonderfully lifelike. My Fostex T500 supertweeters sounds nice and airy. I use the Duelund in my serial filter, feeding my satelites going from 100Hz and up. Bass is taken care of by my custom open baffle bass towers with 10x15" Great Planes Audio woofers. |
I just wanted to mention .I have documented many ,1,000 s of hours on capacitors and changes over the years. For Resistors hands down even the standard Duelund resistors are the best,their black case models even better.
Capacitor wise I agree the Duelund Cast are the best out their period.
If you have the $$ they even make a pure Silverfoil a Silk beeswax
Capacitor that a 3.3 u.f is actually over $1,300Each . I am told a full crossover can cost $20,000 in a set of speakers.the Rolls Royce of caps !! |
The phase 1 (of 5) of my duelund external crossovers is ready and working. This time only changing all resistors to duelund cast, keeping all solen caps and inductors. I conditioned the duelund caps and inductors (for later phases), but forgot to condition the solen parts with the cable cooker, so it will take several days for them to settle and be able to do critical listening.
On a different topic, I decide to rewire my dunlavy sc vi speakers. For the tweeters, already purchased mundorf solid silver gold, which should arrive in a few weeks. For the 15" woofers, I am thinking about using neotech occ solid copper 12awg. For the 8" woofers (150hz to 1khz 1st order) I am in doubt between neotech solid 12awg or cardas litz. For the 5" mids (1khz to 2.5khz 1st order), also in doubt between neotech solid 14awg or cardas Litz. Maybe neotech solid for 8" and cards litz for 5"? or should use same type for 8" and 5"? What do you suggest?
Thanks in advance. |
I used Neotech when rewiring Spendor 9/1 speakers a few years ago, replacing what appeared to be multistrand lamp cord, and was very pleased with the result. |
Just finished testing vintage tubes vs. Psvane and Genalex Gold Lions.
When the Genalex went in the preamp section over the vintage I noticed right away less resonance and a fuller sound. When I got the Psvanes things were even quieter when used with the Genalex's. (maybe to quiet)
The vintage tubes thin out voices wash out the sound but when first installed give the sense of air. The combination of Psvane and Genalex reveal things like the singer can not hit the note. The voice becomes much more real faults and all. Which is better Psvane or Genalex? Not sure yet...
For a couple minutes things sound better with vintage tubes but then I realize the price that is paid by all the resonance.
I am going to get another set of Genalex 12AX7's to compare directly vs. Psvane |
Revision to which is most important caps.
1. In my opinion now phono stage. Another CAST ordered for that location. (massive improvement there)
2. Maybe line stage
3. Tweeter caps.
4. Woofer inductor. (wish I had CAST instead of VSF)(that might put that part at top of the list?)
Duelund cap coming along with Gold Lions for phono stage.
I will literally have to replace small value caps or upgrade some speaker caps from VSF to CAST from here. |
I agree with Volleyguy's hierarchy for the most part. Improving couplings caps in the upstream electronics makes the biggest difference. I would probably tweak the ranking just a bit. Going from biggest improvement to less:
1. Coupling caps in linestage
2. Coupling caps in phono stage
3. Resistors in key locations of phono and linestage
4. Capacitor in tweeter crossover
5. Coupling caps in power amps
6. Resistors in tweeter crossover (if any)
7. Inductor in woofer crossover
8. Capacitor in woofer crossover (if any)
9. Inductor in tweeter crossover (if any)
Of course, the degree of difference that a cap replacement makes depends on what type of cap is being replaced and by what. You can expect a much bigger difference replacing a Solen with a CAST than a V-Cap with a CAST, for example.
It is often said that no capacitor is perfect and they all have some type of sonic failing. That is certainly true. Yet I don't recall ever reading any description of the Duelund's failings. There's no question the Duelund CAST copper sounds very good, and we tend to focus on all the things it does right but it isn't perfect.
Based on my experience with 3 pairs of CAST caps (.47 at 630v, 1.0 at 630v, and 7.5 at 100v), and having tried the high-voltage caps in several locations, both as bypasses and solo, I would offer this one complaint. The Duelunds don't have enough high-frequency life and sparkle. They sound just a bit too smooth in the upper mids and treble and not quite as airy and resolving as I would like. Now you won't hear those areas as problems if the CAST replaced a Solen. But compared to a 1.0uf Sonicap Platinum, that's what I hear. The SP has more life, more air and more finely resolved detail in the upper highs. The Duelund sounds better overall than the SP---better balanced tonally, more detailed, more neutral---but I do miss the special qualities of the Sonicap Platinum in the treble. (Note: these comments only apply to the 1uf SP, not the smaller values).
What do the rest of you think about the CAST caps? Do you hear any negatives? |
I forgot one to mention that the CAST caps do not all sound alike. I recently swapped my 1.0uf for the .47uf. Both were fully broken in. The .47 is thinner in the bass, not as warm, not as much body. The 1.0 however is a bit darker and less lively. I suspect this may be due, at least in part, to the different types of leads. My .47 has solid wire leads; and the 1.0 has thicker braid leads. I notice the Silver CAST has Duelund's flat silver leads. I use the Duelund 1.0 silver wire in several critical places in my preamps and power amps, and I like it a lot. It might be a worthwhile improvement to replace the existing leads on CAST caps with Duelund's own wire. |
Sal,
I can accept the premise that nothing is "perfect" and I'm someone who replaced the Solen with a Duelund CAST in my speaker crossover(5.6uf). I also used the CAST in my DAC to replace the stock coupling capacitors(1.0uf).
My impression, simply no negative tradeoff whatsoever the CAST are remarkable across the entire spectrum. Most significant is the improved nanaturalness and realism of music reproduction, things just sound right.
Granted the improvement gap is likely less if moving from say, Sonicap Platinum, V-Caps, Mundorf SGO, etc. Neither of these or other fine capacitors can match the sheer natural tone and timbre/harmonics of the stunning CAST.
These CAST placed in a source component is without question is a very wise decision, my DAC went from very good sound to what I now consider to be sublime. At this point I prefer Redbook CD in my system to many good analog record systems I've heard. I believe that the CAST is an example of an expensive product that in reality is a genuine bargain given its sonic impact.
Charles, |
Salectric, you are finding different CAST values sound different not because the cap sounds different, but because the VALUE sounds a little different in that position. That has been my experience - this is especially true of preamp output/coupling caps. Larger values my have more bass impact etc...due to how the corresponding piece of gear downhill from the CAST cap performs with it...synergy.
I have found that sometimes Duelund CAST caps may too revealing and a tad bass shy in some locations. Rare, but I have heard it.
One cap I keep talking about is the JFX JB Premium film cap. I replaced the CAST with these in several pieces to compare and these are a steal folks. $5 for a 3.0uf value! $11 for a 6.8uf value. They are warmer sounding than the CAST with better bass. They are not as resolving however. They are more polite in the top end, but depending on what your looking to accomplish, they can be ideal!
I use combination of both on my system. Nice results.
Another cap I like is the paper wrapped Jensen copper. very rich and full bodied. Again, not as resolving as the CAST, but a nice lower cost alternative if needed.
The JFX cap is easily the cap of choice if looking for excellent sound quality that is affordable. Forget, Solen, Mundorf etc......these JFX's caps are a far better value. ya, to my ears they sound better |
Grannyring,
I agree that in some instances the cap values can be responsible for a change in tonal balance. The smaller value cap has a higher -3db frequency. But in my test I used a very high impedance load (330K) so this shouldn't be a factor.
I also agree the JFX JB Premium caps are quite a bargain. They sound pretty good and at the price you just can't go wrong. But if we disregard price and value, I have found them to be too bright and too lean (at least in speaker crossovers), and they don't pass along enough detail. For just a little more money, I prefer Sonicap Gen 1. |
Cap tests have to be done very carefully or wrong results can occur. The caps have to be fully burned in, with the outside foil to ground or output, damped and the leads need to be damped. Not doing all the above will result in misfire. Never listen to cap dangling in the air....simply horrible. Never add a bypass cap dangling in the air (many do this). A fellow came onto the Audioasylum tweak forum and complained that adding a Roderstein/Vishay .1 bypass across the main cap just made it bright. I told him to damp the cap and damp the leads and he came back and was amazed that now it was better than no bypass.
Please get some small WA Quantum dots and try on your caps....simply mindblowing. I listened to the JB JFX cap first (no burn in) and found it very lacking. Then I immediately added a WA Quantum dot and it was mucho better. Then I left it burning it for about 2 hours and it was way better. Then burned it in overnight and now even better, then I bypassed the 1uf cap with one or my modified .33 Wima caps....this extended the treble and now was a world class coupling cap combo. I use this on the output of my mods to the Oppo 105 (2 uf JB JFX cap with outside foil to output, WA Quantum dot applied and bypassed with .33 modded Wima (MKP2).
Remember...there are copper foil caps coming in a couple of months from Jupiter Condenser that may be better than cast copper Dueland (reported to be better by several listeners....as in: "hearing things I never heard before"). These caps will be somewhat less expensive than Dueland and easier to get (once in production). |
By the way, I have carefully removed the end fill epoxy and wires on a .1uf JB JFX cap and attached my own 22 gauge wires using Wonder Solder Signature and the cap is fully functional. I am going to try some 2uf caps with different wires and see how much sonic difference it makes. Even removing the epoxy on the end will make a sonic difference. Some wires I will try include the Dueland pure silver silk/oil/foils, Neotech PCOCC copper litz braid, some copper/gold, OCC copper clad with silver, etc. Even my bare single strand Cardas copper wires tinned with Wonder Solder could be a noticeable improvement over the stock wire/epoxy combo. |
Ricevs ...great stuff and thanks so much. Please explain how to damp a cap .... The best way to damp a cap.
Salectric, I have not used the JFX in a speaker, just tube electronics and CD players. In those positions they are just the opposite of your speaker experience. They are full bodied with deep bass and warm in the highs. Never, ever even approaching bright. Now, they were the first few hours, but not after burn in. Interesting. Not sure if they should be avoided with speakers? |
Ricevs, How do you know which side of the cap is the outside foil? I only have a multimeter to use? You no doubt are very good at what you do? Are you a builder? |
Ricevs, lastly how do you damp the wire leads? Thanks for your help. I plan to try the dots and better damp some of my current mod work. |
Ricevs, ok you got me all jazzed up. I cannot find where to get these dots. I find a bunch of strange articles etc...but where do I buy them and where do they go on the cap? On the ends? Thanks....that is my final question:-) |
Damping the caps simply means having them hard mounted to something. A lot of people have the caps up in the air or off a circuit board....not good. Also having the caps and xover inside a speaker is really not a good thing. Use a hard wired outboard xover for better sound. I use a little Amazing goop to hold the cap down. Do not use the double stick Scotch tape used for mounting things on the wall. This thick spongy tape will kill the highs and close down the sound. If you have the cap mounted to something that is vibrating....then it is vibrating. Isolate circuit boards with cork and use EAR SD40AL to damp heatsinks, boards, chasses, etc. EAR stuff sold by Michael Percy Audio. Cork sheets you get at hardware store.
If the leads on the cap are covered with Teflon or other plastic then damping the lesds will do very little. However, most caps have naked sold core leads and simply putting cotton sleeving on wires will improve sound mucho.
The WA Quantum dots are distributed and sold by The Cable Company. I will have them in stock to sell soon too.
The clearest way to measure the outside foil is to use a 1K sign wave as large as you can get (10V RMS is what I use) and feed one side of the cap the hot from the signal generator and the other side of the cap gets the negative. The cap is mounted inside a large steel paper clip or if you cannot get one that big then make a tube of copper out of copper foil and wrap the cap. You connect the hot from a scope directly to the paper clip or copper tube. You do not need to hook up the ground from the scope. You put the scope on a .2 volts per division setting and notice the amount of 1K signal. Then you switch the leads to the cap from the signal generator and notice again the amount of signal. The side with the hot lead from the signal generator to the cap which reads the most voltage is the outside foil....mark that end of the cap with a black or red dot or mark.
Another way to test large caps if you do not have a signal generator but have a scope is to simply connect both ends of the scope lead to the cap and grab the cap with your hand really tight. Essentially, you are the signal source. Then reverse the leads from the scope and grab the cap again. You will need to have a scope with at least a 2 mv per division or less to measure this.
My website is tweakaudio.com. I hope to have a circle soon on Audiocircle and will have tons of tweak info there too. |
Great website Rick and I will contact you thru your site as I am going to try some of your ideas and products. |
Salecetric
I can not argue with your list as it is more or less the same except 1-2. Why do you not have the phono stage #1? The signal is more fragile.
The Duelund's not having enough life or sparkle on the top end. This is something I have thought a fair bit about and why I took my time replacing the last cap in the phono stage. The vintage cap had more air and life.
The reality is this is something created by the cap... Resonance.
My crossover circuit was 2 2uf's in series for the tweeter. I ended with not two CAST's but CAST followed by VSF. It was that very sparkle you talked about.
For coupling I have a CAST and VSF together. (in some spots)
It is strange on this thread I seem to be the only one mentioning the extreme difference in energy of the CAST over even the VSF. Just way more alive and dynamic.
In comparing the vintage tubes to the Gold Lions 12AX7's. My first reaction always is the vintage tube has more "air and sparkle". In time I can hear the vintage tubes are resonating and wash out voices of richness and much prefer the new Gold Lions. On the downside without the resonance the Gold Lions will reveal a singer struggling to hit a note but I know it is real.
The lack of "air and sparkle" of the CAST (and I agree with you) is in reality something the cap is not adding...
This comes back to the Clarity White Paper saying 30% of people prefer high resonance caps. The majority prefer low resonance but still this means there is something we like about high resonance parts. (air and sparkle)
In theory if reducing resonance was all good 100% (or almost) would prefer it.
All this being said am I the only one who thinks not only is the CAST extremely natural in tone but the dynamics are on a total different level even than VSF. Maybe losing some resonance induced sparkle but gaining a MUCH more alive sound. (big energy gain) |
Volleyguy, it appears we are hearing the same things with the CAST caps. As good as they are, and overall they are the best sounding cap I have ever used, the CAST caps are not perfect. We both notice less air and sparkle compared to some other caps.
It appears you think this character may be a good thing, that the CAST has less "resonance" and is actually more accurate. I don't know about that. Perhaps comparing the copper CAST to a silver CAST would help to clarify the situation. Even better would be a fair A/B test against a direct wire. If done right, this would tell us whether the copper CAST is lacking in air and sparkle or simply telling the truth.
In any case, just speaking for myself, I am not all that interested in trying to understand the physics behind why one cap sounds different from another. The only thing that matters to me is how it sounds. Even more to the point: how it sounds in my system. We are just hobbyists, not manufacturers, so we don't have to worry about how something might sound in a different system, only our own. From that perspective, I will stick with my observation that when I use a CAST cap I notice less air and sparkle. In practice all that means is that I need to balance out the overall tonal balance through other means, I.e. Another cap somewhere else or perhaps a resistor change somewhere to offset the effects of the CAST.
I would definitely be careful about using too many of any single type of cap in one's system because the colorations become much more obvious. This applies to CAST as well as any other cap type. |
Good discussion gentlemen and again another example of the pure subjective nature of this enjoyable hobby. Volleyguy I don't know if many have actually compared CAST-VSF s you have patiently done. I just went straight to the CAST and glad I did. Sal has far more DIY experience and hands on expertise than me and is familiar with numerous brands of capacitors. I respect his observations regarding the CAST's relative lack of air and sparkle and certainly accept the premise that nothing is perfect.
All I can contribute is this, I listen to live jazz in smaller venues quite often (10 visits to clubs the past 2 months) I've been doing this for close to 25 years. A good friend happens to be one of the better drummers in our area (I even listen to him practice sometimes). I feel that I have a good ear for drums, cymbals and most instruments due this type of unfiltered exposure. IMO the CAST capture the air, harmonic tones, energy, sparkle and what ever else you want to call it exceedingly well. Sheer honestly and realism wih cymbals nearly as I hear live and up close with the natural attack and decays intact.
We may differ on our various impressions here but as for me , I just believe that the CAST provide astonishing realism. They compared to other capacitors probably aren't "adding" artificial enhancement but instead are keeping it real. My 2 cents worth.
Charles, |
Volleyguy, As to why the linestage coupler should be more critical sonically than the phono couplers, I really have no idea. That's simply what I have observed. But this is consistent with my experience generally that the linestage is the single most critical electronics in the system. Anything done to the linestage seems to have more impact than if the same change is made in the phono stage or power amps, whether it's changing the power cord, a tube, a change in the power supply, a resistor or the coupling cap. |
Hello,
I am still tweakin the Duelund cast external crossovers for my Dunlavy SC-VI, with the help of Eddie (also engineer, DIY).
Resistors: All resistors are now Duelund Cast. Big improvement in detail
Capacitors in the main signal path: Duelund Cast. More detail, more air, eliminated some nasality present wih Solen, more open, more dynamic
Inductors: Not sure about the effect of the inductors. Maybe changed too many things too quickly.
Next we will be doing a complete we-wiring, and biamplification.
Should I also change the capacitors and inductors that in parallel to the drivers, going to ground, to Duelund? Would it make an audible improvement? Or should I keep them Solen? |
The shunt components in a multi-order crossover (2d, 3rd, 4th order) are very important sonically, but not to the same degree as the series components. Put another way, the parallel components make a major difference, the series components make a hugely major difference!
In my 2-way speakers, I use a 2d order crossover so the high-pass has a series cap and shunt choke, and the high-pass has the reverse---series choke and shunt cap. Each one is very important but I would rank them (from most important to less) like this: 1. Tweeter cap, 2. Woofer choke, 3. Woofer cap, 4. Tweeter choke. It's possible that 3 and 4 might be reversed, hard to say for sure. I am more confident about the other rankings. Of course, the crossover frequency is also important. My speakers have a 1200Hz crossover so both drivers play vital roles.
Replacing a Solen with a CAST even in the shunt position should make a very worthwhile improvement. |
Seletric, Thanks for your response. In this specific case, they are 1st order crossovers. I understand the parallel components are mostly to improve the impedance of the drivers as seen by the remainder of the circuit. Do you think that also in this case it would be worthwhile making the changes? |
That is called a "Zobel network." You probably have a resistor in the range of 8 to 20 ohms in series with the Solen, and this pair is after the woofer choke and in parallel with the woofer. This network counters the woofer's tendency to have a rising impedance above the crossover frequency. It can smooth out the frequency response above the crossover point.
I would expect the cap in the Zobel to be significant sonically but not to the same extent as a crossover shunt cap. But I haven't actually tried it so this somewhat speculative. |
Charles
I am glad you spend so such time listening to live jazz then comparing to you HiFi after all that is what this hobby is about. Nice to have opinion of someone who hears so much live music. I am in agreement with you on CAST.
My daughters friends have been over and they have commented to my daughter they just can't believe the sound. If anyone has noticed women like live music but are not into HiFi. In the time frame of this thread (start) my wife would tolerate my stereo now I will come home and it is on...
My mother used to say that's nice about my old stereo saying she did not think it really that much better than her Bose Wave Radio. (an honest jab)(she thought it a waste of money) Now she is going Holy Cow. I think she thought I had a big Bose Wave Radio before. (to her)
With women they do not care about tubes, SS, type of speaker, type of cap etc.. It either sounds like live music or it doesn't. |
Hi Volleyguy,
Interesting observations concerning you wife and daughter and I can relate to them. My wife isn't a hard core fan of jazz as I am but she does enjoy accompanying me on occasion to the clubs. She really does love the sound of live instruments and has said so ( how could one not enjoy this experience? ). She also notices and enjoys the interactions of the musicians on stage ( the clubs are small and we sit close to the stage). She used to play the piano and has a good ear. When she says the music at home sounds close to "real"(unsolicited) coming from her it's taken as a sincere compliment
Charles. |
Anyone looking for an easy way to find the outer foil of a capacitor, without a scope or multimeter: Beg borrow or steal an older receiver or integrated, with a phono input. You'll need one speaker, of any description, hooked up to one output(balance turned all the way to that channel). Strip one end of an old interconnect and attach alligator clips to the hot and ground conductors. Attach a clip to each cap lead, turn the volume all the way down and plug the interconnect into the phono input. Bring the volume up, until you just begin hearing hum. Touch the bady of the cap(one finger). Turn the unit off, reverse the clips/leads, turn back on and touch the cap again. The lead that results in the most hum when connected to the hot lead of the interconnect, is the outer foil. I like to verify my scope findings this way. I was surprised at the increase of noise recently, when testing some Deuland CAST PIO/Cu .22uF/630V caps. I was told, by a couple dealers/techs, that their orientation wouldn't matter. SO glad I didn't believe them! |
Charles
I was just again out listening to what was likely a $100k stereo and it sounded nice but I could not pick out what anything was really. To a women why would one ever spend $100k on a stereo and if it did not even sound anything like live music a women is just saying why???
Can we really argue with that?
VSF to CAST. When the VSF went in the tweeter it was all good from day one and just got better great tone no confusion. When the CAST went in I went over to see if the tweeter was even working, literally. Astounding noise reduction along with more high freq energy. Before I got them people would say are you really even going to hear a difference especially coming from VSF? I was fully with them not expecting a difference or something that was going to take a long time to figure out. (law of diminishing return)
CAST challenge us to think what was really on the recording... (disorientating, VSF are not)(that is why the discussion on CAST goes to are they beyond what we want?)
I am with you I think CAST goes to very real. I am waiting for the day when someone comes on here and says I just could not hear a difference. There is always someone! |
Volleyguy,
I've heard systems where the sound of a drumkit's cymbals have "more" shimmer, sheen and energy than I hear sitting 6 feet from the real thing. So it's possible to voice a system's sound to embellished what is beyond a natural presentation ( unavoidably subjective). This is where I make a distinction between hifi and natural sound and in this realm the CAST errs towards natural. This isn't to dispute what Salectric is hearing at all, just my concept/idea of what sounds right and realistic.
In Sal's system things could certainly be different from mine and his perception of natural/ realism may vary from me. I'd love to hear his system. We're all aware that results can change from one system to another.
Charles, |
I think the solution to what Salectric is talking about is VSF. Keeps the same super Natural tone but with more what he is talking about.
How many of you guys out there have followed Steen's thinking to as much as possible? Who has gone the farthest?
I have, all coupling caps Duelund (one Jensen Paper in oil just because of room) so all plastic free. (even small value vintage ones)
No electrolytics in the signal path, no electrolytics in the crossover. Output transformers are paper bobbin, autoformer in the crossover is paper bobbin, all crossover caps are Duelund mix of VSF and CAST. Woofer inductor Duelund, tweeter inductor paper bobbin vintage. (I have a Duelund VSF but did not work)
Speaker cable is Duelund Silver 2.0 version II. Speaker internal wire is Duelund Silver 1.0 except woofer is Duelund Copper. (no longer for sale)
I am down to literally inches of plastic covered stranded wire. The only electrolytic is vintage in the power supply. (I would love someone to try a paper in oil power supply)
My comp drivers except woofer are Alnico.
Interconnects are just stock. Oppo is stock so whatever is in there for caps? LP 12 is stock in the sense no changes based on getting rid of plastic. |
Hmmm seems I have some work to do on mounting and insulating some leads. Lots of info on here. |
Ricevs
Holy Smokes some serious work on the Oppo.
Interesting site. |
Salectric, and others,
I am going to upgrade the parts in my speaker and have one question. My speaker has Zobel networks on the drivers. My speaker is a four way (mid bass drivers as we'll as midrange) so I have four caps and four resistors in my Zobel networks in total. All the resistors are inexpensive sand cast types. All the caps are also inexpensive Solen Fast Caps. The builder and others sure think these have no impact on the sound and should be left alone. I read the comments above on Zobel Networks and want to open up this topic again.
The crossover is said to be a simple first order type so outside of these multiple Zobel networks I have one cap on the tweeter and one on the midrange drivers. I will change these out for sure.
Question, will upgrading the sand cast resisters to Mills MRA and caps to something better like Jupiter Flat or Mundorf, or Obbilgatto in the Zobel networks have any impact in sound in your opinions? |
The weakest link is the worst part. The largest difference in a rebuild in my Dunlavy speakers many years ago was replacing the 10 cent sand cast resistors with bridges constructed of several Vishay .8watt metal film type at each location. The difference was staggering. If signal goes thru it..then consider it's replacement. As far as ground is concerned, energy is always in search of ground so its always in the signal path. I was told by Mr.Dunlavy any of this would make zero difference in his or any other speaker. The result for me was huge. Tom |
Salelectric, others,
As is turns out, the elements in parallel are more than Zobel networks in some cases they are a filter, so the XO is 1st order up to a point and a 3rd other after a certain frequency. So probably worth upgrading all caps and inductors that are in parallel. Deciding whether to go with VSF-cu/wpio (US$3,358.5) for the set, VSF-cu Black/wpio (US$4483.80) or CAST-cu (US$6402.04).
What is the recommended cotton (or other material) sleaves to use to protect the leads of the Duelund components of the crossover? Where do I buy them?
Thanks. |
(http://www.partsconnexion.com/tubing_cotton.html) (http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_duelund_main.html) (http://www.partsconnexion.com/ind_duel_main.html) (http://percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf) Good places to shop! |
Hello Rodman (thanks), Saletric, Theaudiotweak, Volleyguy,
At partsconnexion, the cotton tubbing for the Duelund components would be:
http://www.partsconnexion.com/product1178.html
Is this right? Or another one? Thanks! |
COTTON ROPE 5mm (2.5mm internal) Non-dye Natural Colour Cotton Tubing?
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I use product called AVM to control resonance on wire and connections. I have also used it as an adhesive like material between surface such as 2 capacitors. Somehow some way it seems to reduce distortion and noise without all the bad that comes along with soft materials that damp. AVM drys like rock. Another similar product to apply though less effective on small parts is Cascade V Bloc. This is very good inside speaker boxes and on driver frames. Also drys like stone. This can be purchased by the gallon. I am a believer in the use of materials with similar mechanical impedance. No goop, no rope a dope, no slow. Tom |
The Duelund CAST vs. vintage. Before the vintage is taken out there is a LOT less record surface noise from the CAST. The surface noise is in the freq range of the resonance I suspect of the vintage cap. Around a 75% reduction and the noise is at a lower freq. |
Well I upgraded the caps and resistors in my Coincident Total Victory III speakers. What a complete hassle and hard work! The wires inside the speaker are very, very short making it darn difficult to take the tweeter out. Nor could I pull out the crossover board behind the tweeter without cutting wires from other drivers going into the board. The other drivers are all in their own enclosures with the wires traveling through small holes from one speaker section to the next. The cut wires were so short it was darn near impossible to re-solder those cut connections. Oh my what a job.
Behind the tweeter I replaced three Solen Fast Caps and three sand cast resistors. I replaced them with Mills MRA12 resistors and Obbligato Premium Gold caps. I simply did not have the funds for Duelunds.
The bottom of the speaker has two more resistors and two more caps. I replaced the Solen Fast caps and sand cast resistors with Mills MRA12 and Mundorf Supreme.
What I will do someday is remove everything from the speaker and make an outboard crossover board. When I do this, I will use Duelund parts.
The speaker is said to have only one cap in the signal path for the tweeter and midrange. Well, those resistors and caps beyond the one arguably still influence the sound even if part of several Zobel Networks.
Perhaps a little early to tell the result as the caps are fresh with no burn in. Right now the highs and mids are more open and apparent. Things seem a little rough and hard right now so I will report back and more burn in. |
The crossover in the 4 way(9 driver) Coincident Total Victory III is more complicated than the much simpler Coincident Total Eclipse(whew! lucky for me). Grarnnyring your effott will pay off for you. Your fine upstream components will reveal this. You have excellent speakers.
Charles, |
