Regismc,
You say you compared the JBX caps with Clarity MRs, Sonicap Platinums, CuTF V-Caps. Well, How do they sound compared to them? What does "play well" mean? |
Thank you very much for the detailed comparison of the caps....very helpful. |
I have not listened to Mundorf or Dueland caps but I have always found that any cap larger than .33 needs a very small bypass cap for extended top end and detail. I know someone who just recapped his speaker with all Clarity Cap MRs and he then bypassed all the Claritys with the .1 and .01 Vishay Roderstein MKP1837s....mucho better highs and air. Large caps are inductive and therefore slow by nature. The Roderstein 1837 and the Wima small caps are fast as they are tiny by comparison. I just ordered some Wima FKP 02 .01s to try. These film and foil polyprops have only a 2.5mm lead spacing...very small(28 cents each at 100 from TAW). Audio Research has always bypassed all their coupling caps and power supply rails with .01s.
All film caps need to be marked for outside foil and oriented so the foil is to ground or the output. Also, you never want a cap dangling in the air or long bare wire dangling in the air....please hard mount the caps and damp bare wire with cotton sleeving. These things all make a sonic difference for the better. |
I bypass everywhere....tube and solid state electronics and speakers. Have since 1980. Now using the smallest (5mm lead spacing) stock film and foil Wimas, modded Metalized Wimas and Vishay Rodersteins as they are the smallest and therefore fastest caps. I will be listening to the .01uf (2.5mm lead spacing) FPK-02 Wimas this week...just got them in. The metalized Wimas need to be modded as they have steel leads on them. I dremel off the sides and leads and attach my own copper leads. Most of these small caps are only rated at 63V or 100V so tube preamps/amps are a no no. However, some are made at 400V (low values like .01 max) but are hard to find. I mark all caps for outside polarity before use. |
The audio game is very subjective. Some are always looking for "tone and density".....some want speed and clarity....others are looking for "transparency....ie no sound". The only way to know if something works for you is to try it. And when you try something make sure you are covering all the bases: various brands, sizes and types, damping of part, isolation of part, damping of bare wire, orientation of part (outside foil), burning in of part, etc. etc. If you do enough playing around then you will come to your own conclusions based on your subjective criteria. You will be making your stereo sound the way you want. We need to please ourselves.....so please do not believe anyone.....including me. Please do your own experiments. |
Better than copper cast Dueland? Jupiter Condenser is going to be releasing a new copper foil capacitor in about 2-3 months. Two people have compared prototypes directly to cast copper Duelands (a .1 and .47) and are hearing things they never heard before (all good things). These caps will be much less expensive than the Duelands but more than the current Jupiter caps. The pricing has not been set. The new Jupiters have some new techniques that have never been used in a Jupiter cap. Silver leads will be standard. They will be available in the same values that the current caps are available in...ie...there will be 100V versions for speakers and 600V versions for tube electronics. Please don't call Jupiter to find out more info.....please let them have the time to make these things. There is nothing more Chris can tell you than what I just wrote......We will just have to wait. I will be getting some in as soon as they come off the press and will report here. I am most interested in the 100V versions for my open baffle speaker kits I am developing.
So, imagine a cap at less than half the price of a cast copper Dueland that sounds better.....a nice image indeed. Stay tuned. |
The cap on Humble Homemade HiFi site is NOT the new cap from Jupiter. The Flat stacked Beeswax cap has been out for over a year but just now got reviewed. This brand new not yet released Copper foil cap is suppose to be way, way better than the current best Jupiter caps. Wait and see....er hear. |
Cap tests have to be done very carefully or wrong results can occur. The caps have to be fully burned in, with the outside foil to ground or output, damped and the leads need to be damped. Not doing all the above will result in misfire. Never listen to cap dangling in the air....simply horrible. Never add a bypass cap dangling in the air (many do this). A fellow came onto the Audioasylum tweak forum and complained that adding a Roderstein/Vishay .1 bypass across the main cap just made it bright. I told him to damp the cap and damp the leads and he came back and was amazed that now it was better than no bypass.
Please get some small WA Quantum dots and try on your caps....simply mindblowing. I listened to the JB JFX cap first (no burn in) and found it very lacking. Then I immediately added a WA Quantum dot and it was mucho better. Then I left it burning it for about 2 hours and it was way better. Then burned it in overnight and now even better, then I bypassed the 1uf cap with one or my modified .33 Wima caps....this extended the treble and now was a world class coupling cap combo. I use this on the output of my mods to the Oppo 105 (2 uf JB JFX cap with outside foil to output, WA Quantum dot applied and bypassed with .33 modded Wima (MKP2).
Remember...there are copper foil caps coming in a couple of months from Jupiter Condenser that may be better than cast copper Dueland (reported to be better by several listeners....as in: "hearing things I never heard before"). These caps will be somewhat less expensive than Dueland and easier to get (once in production). |
By the way, I have carefully removed the end fill epoxy and wires on a .1uf JB JFX cap and attached my own 22 gauge wires using Wonder Solder Signature and the cap is fully functional. I am going to try some 2uf caps with different wires and see how much sonic difference it makes. Even removing the epoxy on the end will make a sonic difference. Some wires I will try include the Dueland pure silver silk/oil/foils, Neotech PCOCC copper litz braid, some copper/gold, OCC copper clad with silver, etc. Even my bare single strand Cardas copper wires tinned with Wonder Solder could be a noticeable improvement over the stock wire/epoxy combo. |
Damping the caps simply means having them hard mounted to something. A lot of people have the caps up in the air or off a circuit board....not good. Also having the caps and xover inside a speaker is really not a good thing. Use a hard wired outboard xover for better sound. I use a little Amazing goop to hold the cap down. Do not use the double stick Scotch tape used for mounting things on the wall. This thick spongy tape will kill the highs and close down the sound. If you have the cap mounted to something that is vibrating....then it is vibrating. Isolate circuit boards with cork and use EAR SD40AL to damp heatsinks, boards, chasses, etc. EAR stuff sold by Michael Percy Audio. Cork sheets you get at hardware store.
If the leads on the cap are covered with Teflon or other plastic then damping the lesds will do very little. However, most caps have naked sold core leads and simply putting cotton sleeving on wires will improve sound mucho.
The WA Quantum dots are distributed and sold by The Cable Company. I will have them in stock to sell soon too.
The clearest way to measure the outside foil is to use a 1K sign wave as large as you can get (10V RMS is what I use) and feed one side of the cap the hot from the signal generator and the other side of the cap gets the negative. The cap is mounted inside a large steel paper clip or if you cannot get one that big then make a tube of copper out of copper foil and wrap the cap. You connect the hot from a scope directly to the paper clip or copper tube. You do not need to hook up the ground from the scope. You put the scope on a .2 volts per division setting and notice the amount of 1K signal. Then you switch the leads to the cap from the signal generator and notice again the amount of signal. The side with the hot lead from the signal generator to the cap which reads the most voltage is the outside foil....mark that end of the cap with a black or red dot or mark.
Another way to test large caps if you do not have a signal generator but have a scope is to simply connect both ends of the scope lead to the cap and grab the cap with your hand really tight. Essentially, you are the signal source. Then reverse the leads from the scope and grab the cap again. You will need to have a scope with at least a 2 mv per division or less to measure this.
My website is tweakaudio.com. I hope to have a circle soon on Audiocircle and will have tons of tweak info there too. |
Jupiter copper foil caps coming in 3 weeks. Yes, values from .001 to 1uf at 600V will be ready in 3 weeks. So far, everyone has preferred them to Dueland copper cast and VSF. These will be in a round case. Later this year 100V flat stacked versions for speakers will be ready. |
You cannot tell how a cap sounds after 3 hours. Modded Wima caps need a couple of days before they settle down. The value of the bypass cap will also effect the frequency balance. Generally the smaller values add air and as you make the cap larger it will add some warmth. You must damp the bypass cap and the main cap. You cannot dangle a cap in the air on bare solid core leads (it will act like a pitchfork .....this will sound bright and horrible). You must clamp the bypass cap down (and not with double stick scotch tape...this ruins the sound) and also you must damp any solid core lead on the bypass cap with cotton sleeving (unless the leads are very short).
Perfecting takes patience. |
The Copper foil wax paper Jupiter caps are now available. They will be at the dealers within days. Values from .001 to 1uf at 600V. Round case, pure silver leads. These MAYBE the new reference. Not cheap but a lot less than Dueland. A .22uf is $60. The 100V speaker caps (1uf and up) will be available later this year. I will have some preliminary listening feedback next week for you guys. |
The Jupiter copper caps are paper and wax....no oil. |
Beyond capacitors and coils? I am designing a two way active x-over that should be the most transparent active x-over ever made. It will have zero feedback fet buffers and no gain. All parts and power supplies totally top notch. NO pots, switches or push on connectors. Everything will be soldered. The padding of the more sensitive amp will be through the use of soldered resistors. If you have all Dueland silver caps and silver coils and the x-over is simple then you are already set. Every one else will get benefits from an active x-over using state of the art parts and execution. You will be able to select from 6, 12, 18 and 24 db per octave and also vary the xover frequencies (all using soldered pads or changing resistors (very tweaky thang). I hope to bring the x-over in around $1000 (single ended, 2 needed for balanced) and I also have Class A amps coming that will be $1500 for a stereo 25 watt amp. 50 watt monos and 150 watt mono balanced bridged amps for twice as much.
When you have no passive x-over parts the transparency and dynamics are through the roof. The trouble is that no one has ever made a transparent line level x-over. Until now.
I you have a two way speaker then you are in luck. If a three way then you need to either use two of my boxes in series or use something like a Behringer or plate amps or servo woofs on the bottom and use this x-over and two amps on your top two drivers. If you have a 4 way....then sell it...he he! Why would you want something so complex? Have you seen the Hawthorne Audio 700 hz waveguided AMT driver.....$370 each and 96db sensitive. You could mount one of these on top of a box with two sensitive 8s or 10s or one 12 or 15 and use my active xover at 24 db per octave and have a speaker that would kill most things out there. There are lots of possibilities.
I went from a 16 gauge Erse coil on my Neo 10 planar driver to a 14 gauge wax foil coil from Jantzen and it was way better....then going to a 12 gauge got even better...dynamics and transparency galore....but I look at the big 12 gauge coil and I think...."man, that is still a lot of copper the signal has to go through"....I cannot wait till I bi-amp the speaker. Well, tri-amp really. Since I already use servo woofers up to 200hz. |
The parts are much smaller and purer sounding at line level than at speaker level. Your giant Path Audio resistor is no where near straight wire compared to a very tiny surface mount thin film resistor. The speaker is a low impedance device that needs lots of current. The parts you use for x-overs are super large and inductive. Lossy. When you can drive the speakers directly from a low impedance source (amp direct) and not have the veiling sound of passive parts you get way more dynamic and pure sound. Now, this is relative. Like I said, if you have a simple passive x-over using all silver Dueland coils and caps then the loss is very minimal...and until now there have been no line level x-overs that are very pure. My line level x-over will start at around $1000....add $1500 for my new Class A 25 watt a channel amp....and another $1000 for the extra interconnect and speaker wire and you get $3500....not cheap....but far cheaper than silver Duelands! Plus you can use many different drivers and cross over at different frequencies. A 10 gauge coil on a midrange or woof can sound great....but as good as the driver with no coil? Another word for coil...is choke....that is what it does to the sound. |
I don't use any electrolytic caps in my xover (there are no coupling caps except for the filter caps)....only tiny polyprops. As far as resistors....you can easily to a straight wire bypass on a one ohm resistor.....just add it to the output of a low impedance line source...like your preamp. You can get a one ohm Pathaudio or Mills resistor and a .1% Susuma surface mount resistor (10 cents each) and listen....I know what you will hear. It won't be in favor of the giant thang (otherwise we would all be using giant resistors in our gear). The reason for giant resistors is that they need to be large to handle the current and wattage at speaker level or the voltage/wattage when using in high voltage tube electronics.
If you have 6db per octave x-over then you really don't need an active x-over.....at least on the top end. Coils really muck up the sound on a two way. Yes, bi-amping or tri-amping is not simple.....but with the right equipment and drivers can be incredible. The dynamics from a midrange and woofs without the coils is spectacular. What is for certain....is that there has never been a great line level x-over before. So, anyone who has tried this with what is currently available has no idea how good it can be. Even the one that Rockport sells with their $200,000 speaker is full of opamps!!! yikes! op amps are fine for the bass...but above that....not!!! |
Yes, your crossover is simple so an active xover would have to be seriously transparent for it to make any difference. The First Watt B4 is similar to the one I am designing....except mine is super way more tweak and pure. No switches, no pots, better power supply, modded Wima caps in power supply, better wire, jacks, resistors, etc.
Yesterday talked to my friend who owns the Hawthorne Audio 700 hz AMTs. He put it in place of his Scanspeak beryllium tweet in his active three way (highly modded Behringer x-over). He was crossing the tweet in at 3K but now can cross the AMT in at 700hz....he says it is way better....his midrange is an Audio Tech driver in a carbon fiber ball. He is using just 12 db per octave. He says the very top of the beryllium is slightly more open but the AMT is changing each hour as he burns it in....so it might even equal the beryllium in the very top once broken in......but having a super fast AMT go all the way down to 700hz is killer....he says its "electrostatic like". So, even a simple 12 db per octave passive xover could be used in a killer two way. A couple of fast high efficient 10s that would match the 97db sensitivity of the AMT and you have one seriously dynamic and transparent speaker. Me want! He is going to lend me the AMTs after I get my xover done and I will try running two B&G Neo 10s from 250 to 700.....along with my servo woofs underneath. Class A amps on both the Neo 10s and the AMT. I am drooling! |
In my x-over you will also get to choose which amp to attenuate....However, you will be using fixed resistors (way better than any pot) to do the padding. Also there will not be switches in the path to choose which amp gets padded. Everything will be done with push connectors that you can press wire or resistors in. This includes all the filter resistors. The B4 uses switches to change all the frequencies....these are in the signal path. There will also be on the board holes to solder world class resistors in instead of using the push connectors and also pads for world class surface mount resistors. My buffers are also Toshiba but I am using them single ended which will eliminate the resistors and pots that the B4 has on the output of his buffers.
The term "Vishay resistors" no longer means much. Years ago, before Vishay bought a bunch of companies....Vishay meant the bulk foil super expensive resistors....now, Vishay means almost anything. The "Vishay" resistors that are used in the B4 are generic and I am pretty sure not picked for sound. The Wima caps are great and I will be using those too but I will mark every cap for outside foil and orient them in the sonically best direction (to ground or output). The basic resistors I use will be better than generic Vishay and you can then substitute the worlds best resistors and either press them in to the connectors or solder them in (most tweak of all).
In order to have balanced you will have to buy two and use each one as a mono balanced x-over.
You really don't need an active xover with your speakers.....you need better speakers.....oh, oh I done did it...he he...The concept that Dunlavy used was great (six db per octave, time aligned, D-appolito, felting) but his drivers were just ordinary (also his cabinet construction). Today, the level of drivers in the mids and highs is way beyond those drivers (I played with them many years ago and even then they were not that great). I am glad you have at least upgraded the tweeter. If you used the Hawthorne AMTs with a couple of super efficient 10s and bi-amped them with my xover and then used your giant thangs as subs.....you would be in heaven. The Hawthorne AMT goes to 700hz is 97 db efficient and is dipole....just sit it on top of the cabinet and time align (and isolate). I am sure your super modded speakers are fantastic (not to mention, you spent a lot of money on x-over parts). So, new speakers are probably not on your table....just sayin'... I guess I am just excited about what bi-amping using my new Class A amps and these AMTs can do....I cannot wait! |
