Hi Micheal
If I remember correct you had heard the Jensen Copper Paper Tube but not Duelund VSF or CAST? (not sure)
I would rank them more like
Duelund CAST
Duelund VSF
Jensen Copper Paper Tube
then VCap Cuft which have strengths over the Jensen's which are muffled in comparison but VCaps have a synthetic sound to me. I know your not in the Jensen camp I think it can be what our mind will and will not accept and can be different for each person. The VCaps have a lightning fast charge and discharge to me that keeps them from being dynamic like the CAST.
I am glad I tried VCaps though as well as Mundorf Supreme to get an understanding of what caps do. We have to keep this in perspective a Mundorf Supreme would be better than what 99% of companies use in the crossover?
Have you heard the CAST? They have Jensen strengths but way less muffled sound. I would like to here if you could fault the CAST except maybe no forgiveness for poor recordings.
I have not heard the Clarity or Duelund Alexander to know where they fit in the range.
I am going to use the Jensen in a bedroom system. All other caps have been sold or will be. |
Many of us may feel the CAST is the best cap for sale today but is it the best of all time???
Has anyone compared a CAST to a vintage Western Electric? (they are huge)
Frederik have you??? Come on let us know. |
I have compared the CAST to the Alexander and in my tube preamp the CAST were far better. Not close really. The Alexander almost sounds noisy and edgy compared to the CAST. Yes, the CAST cap may well be the best sounding cap of all time. |
Johnk
I did for months compared modified to stock both in real time. I even used digital and analog sources and used SS and tube amplification to compare. Modern and vintage amps as well. New tubes old tubes everything I could think of within reason. As you recall I took some flak for testing this way one chanel at a time.
I have since sold off some of the gear but even when comparing amps it would be one circuit stock and one modified. I started with the poorest sounding amp leaving the best stock one as the benchmark. All of this until recently. Now I have no stock amps. I have stock phono section that will compare when the CAST goes in. |
Sorry about this reply I think I was on another section of the thread.
How does the Alexander compare to Jensen? I would think close? |
I`m in no position to declare the Duelund CAST the best capacitor ever. I used the tin foil V-Caps in my 100 watt push-pull tube amp and the OIMP V-Cap in a preamp. The results were very good and certainly worthwhile.
My recent use of the CAST capacitors in my speaker and DAC has been fabulous! The CAST have a larger impact and could be considered near profound in effect(no hyperbole). I spent 850.00 for the speakers CAST (one pair) and 440.00 for CAST to go into the DAC(one pair output caps). I can`t imagine any better use of money to improve audio components(and these were already very good sounding respectively).
So for 1300.00 USD the overall level of my system has been raised an entire level,there is`nt a single downside or compromise either. I think it`s quite special(and rare) to increase system resolution, nuance and clarity yet get more 'natural' sound and tone also.
I don`t know that this amount of money spent on cables or other upgrade attempts will come close to what the CAST capacitors have done so convincingly.
I think the CAST given its stunning contribution is an underated and under appreciated product in the audiophile community.
Regards, |
I can say that I am using Duelund Silver 2.0 version II speaker cables and as good as they are they do not make the difference CAST caps do.
If the choice was one or the other for the same dollar gets caps. |
Finally the Dueland cast caps arrived yesterday. They are physically ways bigger then Mundorf Supreme. I thought i have to return them but i think i can manage to store 2 of them in a tweeter (Avantgarde Duo). I have questions for you and need your helps.
1. Due to the location i have to extend the lenght of terminal wires of the cap by welding more wires on each terminal( 3 to 5 inches). Does it effect the performance of the cap?
2. Porarity of the cap: i do not see neg/pos marked on the crossover board and also is the Mundorf caps. In addition, the Dueland Cast does not mark either. Please advise me how to connect the Duelan to the crossover.
|
Fine to solder leads onto both endys of the cap. Use good wire. I suggest using the same wire in the speaker if they will send you a foot of it.
The Mundorf and Duelund caps do not have polarity. No positive or negative to worry about. I would place both in the same direction for consistency.
Do you know how to solder? |
Grannyring: no they do not send wire. I may reuse some of interconnect wire that i have in stock by combining several connductor together to make the same gause as the wire on the cap. What type/guage of wire you recommend?.
Yes, i can solder. |
Solid core copper well insulated to prevent oxidation. Heat shrink connections..... |
Houstonreef, as a duo owner I'd like to suggest to get rid the the xo board inside the tweeter housing. attach the new cap + the coil with cable ties the rear cover and solder everything together. sounds much better. Extending the caps leads will work but but this is not the best solution sound wise. suggest you make the efforts to solder the internal wire directly onto the drivers for better sound. the clip on connectors are bad for sound.
Enjoy your "new" speaker! |
Duomike knows your speaker and is spot on for the best way to do this if you are able? |
Duomike, i plan to hang the caps on the cross bar inside the tweeter and solder the tweeter wires directly to the xo to eleminate the quick terminal connector.
Thanks for your sugesstion. i have to take a closer look on this and see if room available and structure that is able to hang and tie the caps since the Dueland is very big. How long does it take to burn in the cap? |
Houstonreef, I use the teflon v-caps in my omega duos and they needed forever to burn in. not sure how long the cast will need. If the cast are extremely big you might not be able to attach them to the rear cover so you might be able to hang them on the cross bar. whatever you do, get rid of the xo board and hardwire everything and do not forget to solder the internal wire directly onto the drivers as well. |
Houstonreef
Why not a few inches of Duelund .5 Silver?
I have tried solid core Copper Duelund and it recessed the highs. Not sure Avantegarde uses for wiring but stranded copper in my mind chops up the sound.
I have Duelund .5 Silver all internal using the the solid core copper on the woofer and 2.0 for cables. To me the solid flat silver keeps the harmonic structure intact.
It is actually quite noticeable.
I had to add inches to wire because of much larger parts and did not hear a downside. |
Not all solid core copper or silver wire is the same....sounding |
I just ordered some of copper hook-up wires at VH Audio. I just think the Dueland leads are copper so i go with copper. |
Houstonreef, the CAST cap is made with copper! |
Like Volleyguy I tend to generally prefer good quality silver wire rather than copper.However the CAST copper leads are high quality as is the 6N copper wiring of my speakers and I left things as they were. It worked out fine and the sound is wonderful.
Regards, |
I remember at the time wishing Duelund made flat copper to compare to flat Silver. I was never sure how much of the difference was because of flat and how much was Silver vs. Copper? |
Thanks for all responses.
Duomike: Did you replace the jumper wires from the XO to the driver on both tweeter and mid-range? |
Houstonreef,
I change the internal wire to Audio Note silver. Do not use any jumper cable cause I'm tri-wiring my speakers. |
Duomike,
What size of wires did you use for the tweeter and mid? It is hard to find Audio Note wires in the States. |
Not sure about the size/gauge of the internal wiring. For speaker cables I use VD Master bi-wire on the horns.Believe they are 10 gauge solid core copper. Heard Duelund also makes internal hookup wire. Maybe you try these |
Just order a phono stage CAST cap. Thrilled the way the amp sounds so far andI have high expectations of CAST at this spot in the circuit. |
Just installed the phono stage CAST.
At first the one of the output tube glowed very hot. I was thinking short.
Then quickly settled down. The CAST is doing as always just over powering the other caps. I am surprised more have not commented on the initial install of CAST is very overpowering. The volume out of the phono section with the CAST is double the other signal.
For anyone who reads this and is changing caps if you have two caps in the circuit from say pre-amp to power the first cap you change makes more difference than the second. The circuit tends to take it's most influence from the dominant cap. |
I have the feeling CAST caps pass a lot of current through them when they are forming at least in electronics?
Then they settle down. Is this due to construction?
I have not had a single other cap do this.
Read a good blog on Duelund Facebook about Tannoy Westminsters and upgrades. The owner was shocked at some parts quality. Reminds me of what Steen had said and sadly seems to be the case of cheap internal parts. My speakers had the signal go through a screw? (1" long) Leaves one scratching your head? |
Volleyguy,
I have followed your journey, and I am aware that you go through all of your laborious capacitor experiments in the interest of better sound. With that in mind, I reccomend that you spend a small amount of money, and try AMR fuses in your gear that requires fuses. At only $20.00 a pop, I think you will be surprised and very pleased with the results. |
Roxy54
At first it was laborious but not anymore. At first I had no idea what to expect now a good idea. Explain to me the science of a fuse I just have no idea? |
On the Duelund thread there is a link to a Tannoy blog where someone is talking about in their opinion the VSF sounds better and are cheaper than CAST. VSF the cap that does not get so much discussion as it's big brother.
I for one do not agree with the statement except VSF is more forgiving does not sound stiff when new and does not require the long break in.
Right now the test is and part of this is space reasons.
Left Channel
CAST Phono with VSF and Jensen on line stage.
Right channel
Vintage Phono with VSF and CAST on line stage.
This test was a which cap is more important line stage or phono? I can say the well broke in CAST in the line stage can not recuperate the lost energy from the phono stage with a vintage cap.
Early results (not broke in yet) is the phono stage is a very critical cap. |
Voleyguy,
I am the wrong person to ask about the science of fuses, or any other science for that matter. I do, however, know what I hear, and I was only suggesting that for a small amount of money, you might be surprised by the positive sonic result of trying the AMR fuses. |
Just completed mod of my speakers by soldering all internal wires, dynamat, and especially replacing Dueland Cast. What i can tell you that just after ten minutes of warming up the system, i played some favorite song and said WOW..Oh My G....The system is up to the next level. Mid gets better but high is a huge improvement. It is more extended, natural, organic, air, and detail from the high. Hearing some that i never heard before. These Dueland Cast are awesome!!!Thanks you all for the inputs. |
Hi Houstonreef,
I was pretty sure that you will be blown away. Mundorf caps are just average sounding! good that you have soldered all internal connections. This alone makes a nice improvement for nothing!
Guess sound will improve further with break in. Enjoy! |
Thanks Duomike. I also changed the Auricap with Mundorf gold/silver/oi; in a pream. And the result is great. The Mundorf is much better than the Auri. Next i plan to pour lead shot in the frame of duo.
Duomike: try to put dynamat in both cylinders of mid and high. I think it makes some improvement too. |
Looking in from time to time. I now see people using or wanting to use Dyna-mat and lead shot. Both these materials will decouple the speaker from supportive material/enclosure which was originally intended to couple energy..though poorly understood and executed. The use of decoupling materials erodes the benefit of horn loading which is designed to maximise the use of acoustic energy. Materials suggested for use here actually store energy and increase the decay time.
I would suggest the use of steel shot or bronze shot in bearing form and not just random slag from some machine shop refusge or the use of any leaded materials. Both the steel shot or bronze material and shape will maintain reactivity and maintain the desired resonance control with out killing the live dynamics. Even with these more active materials there is a fine line of overfill before you mute the sound. air and dynamics. You can hear this happen in a progressive fashion. For internal wall surfaces of an enclosure there is a water based latex material that when painted on a flat surface will dry hard like concrete and have a rough granular finish. This finish as it drys is drawn into the pores of the wood or mdf, sealing and stiffening the material and helping to seal off the mdf/glue and all of it's ill affects and gross influences to the sound . Tom |
Hi Houstonreef.
I put Dynamat into the mid/high enclosures a long time ago. Also wanted to fill the frame with lead shots but could not get any in my part of the world. Used sand instead. Made a small improvement. Remember Chadeffect tried the sand tweak as well and liked it too.
Replace the Mundorf in your preamp with cast or v-cap. Then you will know why I said they sound average! |
Duomike,
I do not want any sand because i am filling the material while all drivers are still on the frame.
Theaudiotweak: can you explain more why you still want resonance and for that uses steel or bronze. |
Houstonreef,
you have to fill the frame with all drivers attached to the frame, regardless of what material you are going to use |
Duomike, how did you cover the holes on the frame? |
|
Houstonreef,
Listen first to a selection you are most familar with. Mute the system but leave the volume control un touched.
Then do the following. If you have square tubing as pillars. The unused adjustment holes in the pillars should be filled with short brass machine screws. Thread these in and snug them up do not use any adhesive. Fill all these holes leave none open. Make sure these are 100% brass and not nickel plated. At this stage do not attempt to fill the tubes.
Then listen to the same selection at the same volume. Post what you hear. Tom |
The audiotweak makes some very good points.
There is most definitely a point at which you can over damp and make the sound lifeless. This not only applies to vibration control but even to RF and EMI filtering. Unfortunately there is only one way to find that happy balance and that is to try!
I did use sand in the speaker frame. It did make a nice improvement. I didn't fill the frame completely. Sand can kill off some aspects of the sound. For me it cleaned up some noise and tightened things up without choking the sound.
Is the latex material you mention light blue? I seem to remember it is extremely expensive. A few manufactures use it in critical places. I think Ref3A used it? It is said to be remarkable stuff.
Duomike, which dynamat did you use? There are quite a few different sheets.
Personally I like Mundorf silver/gold in oil and the silver in oil caps. If you can stretch to Duelund caps they do something I have not heard anywhere else. A kind of organic naturalness and image density. While mundorf can have a slightly etched or hyper quality to detail the Duelund doesn't draw attention to it while remaining detailed. Unfortunately they are very expensive and cannot be called a bargain. But they are very fine. |
Chadeffect,
don't remember the name of the stuff. Did do that tweak in 2001 in Germany. It was some stuff car audio guys use to dampen panels inside the car. 1 was app. 1mm thick black bitumen with one side with aluminium foil for heat protection I guess.
Houstonreef, since you are very serious improving the sound of your speaker I got another tweak which makes a huge improvement at almost no cost at all. Time align the tweeeter with the midrange. If you are interested I can give you the details. |
Chadeffect,
I don`t even consider the Duelunds "expensive" anymore.Their performance relative to the cost is such a high ratio that I believe they are a very high value purchase.
The best sounding system I heard at CES a few days ago used the Absolare Passion amplifier and linestage(driving the Rockport Altair). Both of these Absolare components use the Duelund CAST capacitors.The sound in that room was stunningly good.Just fantastic!
Regards, |
VB 1-x from Cascade Audio is the paint on or spray on thick acoustic paint that helps seal off the bad sounding stuff bleeding thru your drivers or cabinet. I like this product because it drys hard and is not a soft damping energy storing energy robbing soft material. Please keep in mind a speaker cabinet is a passive radiator. Even a sub box crossed over at 50hz has harmonics generated and passed thru the cabinet enclosure..it also is a passive radiator.
As for the horn speakers. If there are holes in the stand then there is discontinuity in the material and the stand. The sides with the holes are disconnected from the other sides. If your thought is to ground these rails to the floor which is the best for sound quality then you need to have a controlled surface material that transmits vibration in a linear fashion and time. The Brass screws completes the connection within the vertical rails. There is so much more that can be done in this manner...to drivers, enclosures, components of crossovers as well as the entire crossover mounting method it's all a continuum. Most manufacturers don't go to the level that an informed hobbyist will. Actually many of these vendors see no value or lack any understanding of some of these methods mentioned here. |
Chadaffect,
I bought dynamat on Amazon. Like Duomike said, it is the stuff people use it on car stereo by stick them on door, hood, floor, and trunk. |
You can by this direct or from Parts Express. I paint this on speaker baskets as well as cabinet internals. Also use on tweeter face plates and then paint over with a clear poly.The rough surface reduces fz stick. Used this product on my SC4's years ago.Did one and the stage went to the wall..Had to do the other so I wouldn't have to sit so far off axis..Tom
http://www.cascadeaudio.com/car_noise_control/pdf/VB1X_101612.pdf |
Charles1dad,
I was in the absolare room a lot, to bad we missed each other.
Best regards,
Frederik |
Hi Frederik,
I wish we could have met. Was`nt that room really a treat to listen to?The first day they used the MSB amplifier and the sound was respectable but nothing special.The insertion of the Absolare Passion amplifiers completely transformed the sound in that system in a profound manner.
Regards, |
