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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy

Showing 7 responses by audioman58

audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,302 posts
 
I am using the Mundorf Silver oil for the tweeter and the excellent Jantzen Superior caps for the mids with Jantzen Copper foil inductors and the Best resistor made for loudspeakers the Duelund with excellent results .The Jantzen Superior caps are a great caps and one of the best buys out there. I have used many brands in amps.preamps and loudspeaker crosovers.I have 5 years and have used
Auricaps ,Clarity,Hovland The Duelund are the best if money is no object.
audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,302 posts
 
I just wanted to mention .I have documented many ,1,000 s of hours on capacitors and changes over the years. For Resistors hands down even the standard Duelund resistors are the best,their black case models even better.
Capacitor wise I agree the Duelund Cast are the best out their period.
If you have the $$ they even make a pure Silverfoil a Silk beeswax
Capacitor that a 3.3 u.f is actually over $1,300Each . I am told a full crossover can cost $20,000 in a set of speakers.the Rolls Royce of caps !!
audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,302 posts
 
I have used the Jupiter HT in a few builds very natural ,and as balanced as the rest of the circuit ,your sourse will dictate how fast or slow the Xover sounds. Jupiter square caps, or HT are their best, evrn niw have a a Copper cap that is very rich and detailed.,inductor use a good one like Jantzen Copper foil the best per dollar out there, Path audio resistors1%
Is superior to even the Duelund cast resistors but take well over 200 hours to fully settle in. Neotech -0 Chrystal wiring is excellent
I use solid core for the inside of speakers use all quality your ears will thank you?the Xover is the heart or the brain
Capacitors great tweeter mix Obbliggato Gold great value
Next up and close to big money caps 20% Mundorf Silver oil capacitor
And Clarity ESA capacitor for other 80% save $100 per cap and 95 % as good.
audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,302 posts
 
I have used Mundorf a lot in the past no more after a lot of research and comparing plastic  is not organic sounding and foil is night and day better then
metal sprayed on paper .2 minuses ,also a natural damping .
my solution to myself and others that know caps put these very close to top Duelund cast for less then 1/2 . The Excellent Jupiter Copper foil bees wax cap 
60-70%,and a Arizona - Blue Aluminum foil  paper Mylar oil cap 30-40%.
if needed to mix with a big cap Clarity CSA Excellent Big cap up to 100uf 
try a minimum of 10%, 25% of big cap ratio for best results. I guarantee 
you a great sound if listen to  p.s take an smaller .47 close to the board as an extra cap to lower  ESR, inductance.  Arizona Cactus come in 3  mixes .
red just paper, not as good on bass great mid- high, green cap higher ratio paper 70-30 paper Mylar , blue 60-40mylar ,paper a bit richer. Very good price and quality  was West Cap back in the 60-70s think old LesPaul guitar 60s deep tone 
bingo Cactus cap ,these are better.
audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,302 posts
 
Personally  I would not seek old capaciyors they dry out and leak especially speaking of spending hundreds if dollars West cap was huge in the 60s
A Japanese team from 2007 to 2014 improved upon these classic caps to 
Today's standard  the Arizona Red ,Blue ,and latest green  
All 3 are in mineral oil ,and Aluminum foil. The red uses just craft long grain pulp paper.  The Blue paper and Mylar  Mylar is richer  sounding and better bass,
Green has Mylar paper but more paper .Personally I like the Blue with Jupiter
Copper foil Bees wax cap.  This combination up there with best Duelund cast and $60%  less expensive Jupiter letter mids but drier, Duelund more natural in that respect .add 10-20%  cactus cap  noe has the rich body of the Duelunds.            Best small bypass caps, Duelund Silver oil .01uf, $100 a pop, put a few in your electronics Or speakers truly tightens up the detail. 
audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,302 posts
 
To Gammag.   You can use any variation you choose if you have the room. 
I have the Duelund bypass caps on my speakers.  Here is a tip.
You $$ can go much further is say you buy the value you need say a .33uf
The Newer Duelund Jam caps  have Exactly  the same New type of Tinned Copper foil oil in paper dielectric, the only difference is the treated paper case which does make it better ,but not at 3x the cost just because of its case. It us for sure better then the Audyn Copper.  The tin splits the difference vs silver, a great balance 
I have 3.3uf in my preamp could not be happier  far better then the Mundorf Supreme silver oil I had . I now have a.22 Jam on my speaker to complement 
The .01uf Duelund Tinned Copper bypass cap  .for the price of 1 .01 Duelund bypass  I can almost buy2- .22 if  Duelund Jam caps 20x the 1uf And 94% of The cast performance. For myself an excellent investment. Inside Identical tinned Copper, paper in oil, the Putter jacket has the damping treated paper,
Vs the Aluminum I wrap 3m electrical tape around it 2x ,and small a chunk wrap on the leggs heated to form truly damps the caps at 1/3rd the cost well worth 
The effort. Myself and friends has found similar results, the take 400 hours + 
To fully runin on the big 3uf cap  .22 give a week 150 hours.
audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,302 posts
 
You need at least 200 hours of runin. A .22 Jupiter Copper foil  bypass will for sure help but need at least 200 hours  should sound nice.
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