Building a second, vinyl focused system. Speaker advice needed! (<$10k)

While I've never had a chance to demo them,I read good things about Daedalus Audio.. I have heard 3 different models from Focus Audio & I have to say,if I had the room & they were not so damn heavy I would have bought a pair years ago!

Tekton Perfect Set, designed for SET and other tubes...should check all your boxes, i suppose. There is also a version with a 15 inch driver. If you want to get all fancy with it and get your 10k's worth, ask for a custom with all Beryllium drivers, some fancy finish or whatever.

• I am definitely looking for full range speakers. I could also be persuaded to add a subwoofer if it’s really needed (e.g. for electronic music) but would vastly prefer a two channel system, especially at this price point.

• Immersive, holographic soundstage and imaging. This is usually what tickles my ears the most when I think back to the best listening experiences I’ve had.

• Lifelike, engaging, and fun musical presentation. Obviously I appreciate pure fidelity to a degree, but some of the most boring speakers I’ve ever heard measure "perfectly flat." At this point in my journey, I value a fun experience over 100% truthfulness.

• Non-fatiguing treble and overall sound (no shoutiness). Not to pick on them but I’ve heard several Klipsch models that I would call shouty and it’s a quality that I really disliked. Maybe that’s all horn speakers, idk.

• Tight, controlled, and accurate bass (not wooly or boomy). Also as with the shouty treble, wooly and fuzzy bass just takes me out of the experience entirely. I usually attribute this sound to older speakers from the 70s.

• Excellent microdynamics and ability to reveal musical “texture," especially in electronic music, think albums like Jan Jelinek’s "Loop Finding Jazz Records" with lots of pops, clicks, and quick transients.

• Strong performance at both low and high volumes. I listen at night a lot and still want a good experience without disturbing others. The speaker shouldn’t get congested at higher volumes though since I do like to play em loud as well.

• Excels with jazz (especially live combo recordings), classical, and detailed electronic music. I listen to a lot of live jazz combo recordings so imaging and timbre are very important here. My litmus test is whether Scott LaFaro’s bass on "Live at The Village Vanguard" actually sounds real or not.

• Real wood, furniture grade cabinetry. I really value speakers as pieces of functional furniture that should blend in with a space as much as a couch or a table. This is a bit more subjective, but I’m looking for something that fits the aesthetic of my home, being a mix of Scandinavian and MCM, clean lines, natural wood, nothing overly ornate. I think this rules out speakers like GoldenEar that have more of a home theatre aesthetic (no hate, I’ve heard this speaker and it rocks).

• Should play nicely with tube amplification as that is what I am planning for this system. I have a lot to learn about amp and tube matching so I’ll probably be back with this as a separate question. I imagine these speakers will be fairly high sensitivity with good nominal impedance figures.

• Budget of around $10k, since I’ll be saving for a while, I want something with serious staying power. Will consider used options too.

@primarist  The lower the wattage, the higher speaker sensitivity required.  My 100db speaker can barely run 2 watt SET amps.

What’s the lowest tube amp wattage?

Don’t overlook the Audio Note AN-E.  They cover a lot of the bases you list and are designed for low-wattage amplifiers. They come at many different price points, depending on options, but you may be able to find something at your price point, especially used or demo. 

One of the few speakers I can think of that could tick all your boxes is the ProAc D30RS, especially with its ability to disappear and produce a voluminous and holographic 3D soundstage that appears to be very important to you.  Very few speakers pull this off as well as ProAc and even fewer that can do it and meet all your other criteria.  I’d suggest you find a dealer and go give them a listen, and best of luck. 

https://www.basilaudio.com/products/proac-d30rs/

https://pt.audio/2023/06/23/proac-d30rs-loudspeakers-review/

I do like the value of tekton and the beryllium option.its fantastic beryllium pushes the distortion cone breakup past 20k hz out of the human hearing range.its light and quick,responsive,fast,definition and known as the best speaker building material but hard to work with as a manufacture. You would not be disappointed.enjoy the search.

Check out Volti speakers. I’m not a horn guy, but these have sounded great at several show demos. I am a ProAc fanboy, but they need some power to sing. I have Tekton Lores in my bedroom system, they are a great value, but may not be the furniture grade you are looking for.

Hi, talk with Ze'ev at Pure Audio Project about their open baffle speakers. I own their Quintet 10's with AMT Heil tweeters--excellent!. Many choices/permutations from dual to quintet,10" or 15" woofers, three tweeter types with future crossover and wiring upgrades if desired. Will match most electronics and room sizes.

Cheers,

David.

Consider some Legacy speakers. Very efficient, full range and very nice cabinets with 3 grades of finishes. Outstanding bass and ribbon tweeters and Mids.

Try and audition some Paradigm Founder 100Fs. They're well within your price and check all your boxes. They are beautiful (our floor demos right now are midnight cherry) and sound sublime. No sub needed. I work in a hi-fi shop and we have towers on demo that cost four times as much. The Founders are my favorite at $2,799/each.

Find Vandersteen speakers

KEF Reference 1 Meta, they will be very close

to what you are seeking for. They are a perfect match for the Hint 6.

Check out old school   JBL  ESS   Acoustic Research 

+1 Legacy.

Omega Speakers High Output Alnico Monitors, w/ a matching sub. The drivers have absolutely gorgeous, non-fatiguing tone with a soundstage that is wide and very holographic. They are very efficient and pair extremely well with low powered tube amps. Plus, they are handmade with furniture grade veneers right here in the USA.

@Primarist - What is your combined amp and speaker budget? It really doesn't make sense to be buying a pair of speakers and then trying to match an amplifier to them.

In fact, really you should be buying the amp and speakers together.

This particularly the case with contemplating a tube amp since its power output and output impedance will have a big influence on what speaker you choose.

    What tube amp are you using ? Wattage will matter too. I have a 12 wpc tube amp and some 180 wpc mono blocs, big difference. My 12 wpc is a Had Inspire , and Dennis is a big fan of the ProAc’s. I found that with my small amp I needed to run KT-120’s or KT-150’s to get enough bass from my ZU’s to avoid a sub. I don’t think the ZU’s would meet your needs. One of the tube friendly speakers I’ve heard positive comments on but I’ve yet to audition is Tannoy. Happy Hunting , Mike B. 

Eminent Technology, Magnepan, Revel PerformaBe (walnut).

Good to avoid Klipsch and their unpolished and overly present upper mid rage and lower treble harshness @primarist 

How big the room?

• Strong performance at both low and high volumes. I listen at night a lot and still want a good experience without disturbing others. The speaker shouldn't get congested at higher volumes though since I do like to play em loud as well.

I also listen late at night and tun off the 2-channel systems to go to my RAAL SR1a earphones. This is better than my Magnepan Mini system in the office. It is not as good as my Yamaha NS5000 system in the Livingroom,

I mention the SR1a or SR1b (the same thing) because it will give you a 2-channel representation of the sound. Your Parasound Hint6 would be great with the SR1a or b. It is a much better listening experience than almost all 2-channel systems at low volume. Not even considering room issues.

There is another RAAL headphone (not earphone) that people are freaking out about, it is the RAAL 1995 Immanis. It cost about $10k and it is an experience. Not 2-channel like the SR1a but close. I am thinking of getting that for a bedroom late night listening only because I am lazy to carry the SR1a from my office to the bedroom. 

"Real wood, furniture grade cabinetry"

Aesthetic+ sound= Sonus Faber

Too bad you're not open to used. Something like this could be in your tolerance zone:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisbe2j1-sonus-faber-elipsa-se-floorstanding-speakers-maple-76861-full-range

A little  brother of the Stradivari @$50K

https://www.sonusfaber.com/en/products/stradivari

Below the radar Italian brand in your price zone. I have a pair of lower line from this brand.  Tube or SS friendly.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650103330-opera-grand-callas-ii-superb-and-rare-3-way-italian-loudspeakers/

Legacy Focus SE or Focus XD. These are incredible speakers. Check them out. Bill Duddleston is an incredible designer. These speakers are full range (no subwoofers required), have incredible cabinets, with incredible sound. I flew from Alaska to Springfield Illinois to audition these speakers. Bill came in on the weekend to audition them for me. I was totally blown away by the sound. These are the real deal. Check them out. These speakers have incredible sound and beautiful cabinets. 

I’m still using the Audio Physic Virgo speakers I bought around 25 years ago.  I would say they meet all the criteria you list, and all types of music on vinyl sound great played through them.  Used Audio Physics could be a good way to go.  Someday I’ll upgrade, probably to something from DeVore Fidelity.  I understand John DeVore’s approach to speaker design was influenced by his appreciation of Audio Physic’s. But obviously I’m in no hurry at all to upgrade.

My second system is the Yamaha CX/MX1000 combo, Yamaha NS1000m with a Gustard X26pro Dac.  This cost me less than 4k and I love it. 

I am going to second @chayro and recommend Audio Note speakers. They play well with tubes and they have numerous finishes. They work best when placed in the corners of your room. Here is a nice pair of Here is a stunning pair. I have the Audio Note AN-E LX HE Hemp in my system currently with Sysnthesis tube amps and they love jazz. 

One approach would be to build from classics.  Such as:

*  A JBL Paragon (beautiful modern cabinet, unsurpassed dynamic full range JBL woofers and "potato masher" mid/high end.  Alternatively, two older JBL Harkness speakers, also with the D130a woofers and D75 "potato-masher" as used in the Paragon.   

* A modest-power tube preamp with a great phono stage, such as the ARC 6b, 6d,or 6e.  No better phone stage for moving magnet cartridges or high output moving coils.

* A Dual 721 or 704 turntable with an easily-adjustable VTA mechanism and either an XLM or ZLM body with an ADC OEM Shibata stylus.  The stylus shape is why you need the easy VTA adjustment,,,,,when you get it just right the sound just "pops" into accurate and full dimensional character.

***************************************

This will take a while to assemble, but when done you will have a "state of the phono art" system from the early '70's, the peak of the phono period history.

They’re a little polarizing, but I’m a big fan of the Rethms.  The Trishna started out @ $10k, but may be up to $12k now.  Perfect for virtually any tube amplification, even SET.  They use a full range driver combined with a powered low end featuring 4 woofers in isobaric configuration.  I love the immediacy of the sound, and my understanding is they’ve addressed a mid-bass issue associated with previous design.  IMHO, their look is very consistent with a Scandinavian vibe, though I wouldn’t necessarily say “furniture grade” the way my Audio Notes can.  Full disclosure:  i’ve only heard them twice in show settings, but was impressed both times, the second when they were being driven by a Synthesis integrated, which is a brand I’m deeply familiar with.

I recommend the Devore Gibbon Super Nines, retail for $10K.  They image, soundstage and disappear like high end stand mounts but unlike most of them, they have extended bass down to 29Hz.  They come in either cherry, mahogany or black and their finish is beautiful.  They are tube friendly with a nominal impedance of 8 ohms and 6 ohms minimum.  They are easy to drive with a sensitivity of 90dB.  I just bought a pair after hearing them at Axpona.  I'm driving them with a 20 w/Ch First Watt F7 and they sound excellent.  I use a Linear Tube Audio Microzotl preamp and a Luxman EQ-500 vacuum tube phono stage.  My turntable in this my 2nd system is a Rega P10 with an Apheta 3 MC cartridge.  Check them out.

Don’t mean to thread-jack,  but @smatsui could you compare the Nines to your Klipsch? I have Forte IVs and am interested in the Nines but don’t want to sacrifice that Klipsch scale. Thanks in advance!

@oceansandmountains, I’ve only had my Nines for about 2 weeks but I don’t have a desire to go back to my CW IVs.  I wasn’t sure if the Nines would sound small compared to the CWs but they don’t.  I think the Nines sound more organic and instruments have more body.  I listen to a lot of female vocals and the Nines are clearly better in the midrange and highs.  I’m very happy with my decision to buy the Nines.  I listened to a lot of speakers at Axpona, but none of them anywhere near their price impressed me like the Nines.

‘Don't sound small and are more organic’ is really not what my wallet wanted to hear, but thanks again ;) 

Here's some guy running a Tekton polycell 15 model (103db sensitive, approx $4700) with 2 Watt flea tubes, which may fulfill your criteria list. 

https://www.facebook.com/reel/912468842601740

Wow, how time flies by. In weeks since I posted this, I've been on international travel, moved apartments, and am only just starting to feel settled in. Anyways, I wanted to hop in here so that I could respond to all of these fantastic suggestions and keep this from becoming another "dead thread."

First off I'll say that while I'm sure Tektons sound incredible, there is literally zero percent chance I can sneak those into my living room past my girlfriend. I know, tale as old as time, but its very valid.

Second, and this is where the meat of my post is, thanks to @g2the2nd's suggestion, I looked into Volti audio and learned that Greg's workshop is not far from my house! I wound up swinging by to demo a pair of his Razz speakers and wound up staying for a little under 4 hours. One word is: WOW. I'll come out and admit it, I was totally mistaken about horn speakers. From my earlier Klipsch experience, I was expecting, as my post alludes to, a "cupped hand" sound in the upper midrange. Intuitively I guess this makes sense since every horn we're used to hearing in "normal" life sounds like this. Megaphones, announcement speakers, cheap PA systems, a horn shape should sound horn-like, right? 

Well, Greg's speakers left me with egg on my face and my jaw on the floor. Not only did they not exhibit any of the shoutiness that I was expecting, but they presented some of the most lifelike and effortless midrange I have ever heard in a speaker. I think effortless is probably the best descriptor I could use to describe both the Razz and Lucera, which I wound up spending a couple hours with as well. This quality was especially apparent at lower volumes and during off-axis listening, where the speakers' characters continued to shine through. With the volume cranked, neither speaker showed any signs of congestion or confusion, though the Lucera's bass loaded the room better than the Razz seemed to. Imaging and soundstage were truly difficult to describe, with instruments actually jumping out from behind the listening position. This was the first time I have ever experienced this effect from a speaker in my life and it was impressive to say the least.

Honestly, I'm now pining after a pair of the Luceras after this demo and it easily sticks in my mind as one of the top hi-fi experiences I've ever had, saying nothing of Greg's hospitality, which was top notch. If nothing else was achieved, I at least have a greatly changed perception of what a well-tuned horn speaker can sound like and will definitely be considering them going forward in my hi-fi journey.

Okay, phew, back to other speakers then. @medium_grade, have you heard the Omegas? The Super Alnico XRS (with a pair of matching subs) was a possibility that I identified early on but was worried about (1) the lack of a crossover and (2) whether the 6.5" drivers would be able to output the clean, deep bass that I would prefer for my electronic music. I'm not sure why the lack of a crossover concerns me, maybe it shouldn't, I've just never heard of a speaker without one before. I also know I was just terribly spoiled by listening to the 15" woofer on the Volti Luceras so how unreasonable is it for me to expect similar bass performance from a smaller speaker?

To all others: I am definitely still Devore, ProAc, and Audio Note curious.

@primarist get these speakers - https://marchaudio.com/product/ukkonen-awg-floor-standing-speaker/

I'm whatever cabinetry finish you want

This is a thread with a lot of very good suggestions.  The Volti speakers seem to tick most boxes, including the right looks.  Their cabinets are superb.  Although plain looking, the Audi Note speakers should be in the running, particularly if you desire placing the speakers close to the back and side walls.  I like Tekton, Devore and ProAc speakers a lot too; all can be used with modestly powered tube amps.

While they may not fit your looks profile, PureAudioProject speakers sound fantastic—large and immersive sound field, alive and engaging, and well balanced tonally (not the deepest bass, but decent for open baffle speakers.  They do bedt with a lot of room behind them.

I find Vandersteens do a good job in almost all aspects, but sound just a bit too blah in dynamics (not lively).

I forgot to mention how unusual and good is the recommendation of the Indian speaker Rethm—they are extremely lively and engaging.  The looks are a touch odd, but they are worth looking into.

you could try this

@primarist  Glad you got to meet up with Greg at his shop. I had a similar experience when I picked up my pair of Razz, (however I am about 9 hours drive from him). It was all worth it and then some. I totally agree with you re: his hospitality, he is a gentleman and a real credit to this hobby. I stayed over night in his veneer shop after a great Mexican dinner and extended listening session well into the night. 

I brought home my own pair of Razz in Walnut and from then on everything I listen to is compared to the Razz. I even emulated Greg in my amplification choice, grabbing a Cary SLI80HS integrated because of what magic I was exposed to during our listening session with Greg's own Cary SLI80HS. 

My hope is within the next year or so, to trade up to the Lucera in Maple, or perhaps one of his other more exotic finishes. 

Omega High Output Alnico Monitors. Can't go wrong. Pair them with a matching sub and it will give you everything you want. 

"Immersive, holographic soundstage and imaging"

It sounds like you want a pair of Sonus Fabers,  They needn't be over $10k, I have a new-to-me pair of minty Cremonas that ran me under $4k. Also have two 10" Klipsch subs with the low pass set near bottom.

In my 13x21 listening room they sound as massive as Wilson Grand Slamms, no joke. "Red Rain" last night nearly blew me out of my seat.

Volti Audio - neutral and highly efficient, not horn shouty. Plenty of very positive reviews- I own the Volti Rivals for tube amps.  Klipsch seemed colored by comparison 

Devore Orangutan O/96 - highly musical, tube friendly efficient.  Plenty of very positive reviews.

Daedalus - gorgeous woodwork when seen in person, seems typical owners run tube amps.  

A very demanding list of qualities for an under $10k loudspeaker but here goes...The Acoustic Energy Corinium or 520 could meet most of  the demands. The AE 520 might not have the fit and finish desired but will be less cable and component sensitive. The Corinium has a very solid build and finish for $7500 and can scale up with upper level electronics. The AE 520 is one of the best balanced speakers at the $5k price point. In conclusion I would go with the Corinium due to the added refinement and better top to bottom extension. The AE 520 was mentioned because it's one of the handful of budget speakers you can build a true entry level HEA system with. Hope my comments help.

I second the Omega Alnico HO, Tekton double Impact,Perfect set as well.

Diapason.   Might surprise you how many of your boxes this brand ticks.