Here are a couple that should be a considerable step up in overall sound quality…
https://nowlistenhere.net/Products/DEMO-Totem-Bison-Monitor-speakers__TOT-BISON-MON-DEMO.aspx
https://www.ebay.com/itm/186624117329
Best of luck.
Bookshelf speaker recommendations
I am in the need for some recommendation for bookshelf speakers in a small room(10x10). I currently have the Paradigm Mini Monitor v3 and for the price are good sounding speakers but they are way too midbass heavy like boxy sounding. A few options I was looking was the Dynaudio Audience 42 or 52 or even the Contour 1.1. I listening to everything but mostly rock and country. Every once in a while I like listening to vocals and acoustic instruments.
This will be powered by an Acurus A150 amplifier with a Rotel RC-995 preamp. My source is strictly lossless files and some streaming.
My budget is around 1.2k.
43 responses Add your response
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I am a big fan of Dynaudio..Started with Audience 42>Audience 52>Audience 52SE>Excite X14 & now have Excite X18's in my bedroom system..Stay AWAY from ALL the old series Dynaudio's like Audience 42/52,Excite X12 or C1.1...These were the last series that followed the old Dynaudio mid bass hump/bass heavy tone that you are already dealing with...With the Excite X14's Dynaudio tuned the voice for less of a bass heavy sound to a more neutral,detailed & slightly lush tone.. |
Assuming you’ve already exhausted all feasible placement options (positional eq) with you and your speaker, just get a affordable streamer like the Wiim Pro Plus....or A Wiim Ultra. Such full featured streamers are good for a lossless digital files and some streaming kinda guy like yourself. They come with several bands of parametric EQ. You could bop some midbass band down, adjust Qs, etc, etc and tailor the Paradigm to your taste.
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Thanks for all the responses. @deep_333 Thanks for the recommendation. I have been using my media player and luckily it has a 20 band EQ. The only frequency I need to cut is between 200hz and 300hz maybe up to 350hz. Streamers with that capability is a plus. There is so much I can position the speakers. |
Assuming you are sitting in the center and about 2ish feet from the back wall or right up against the back wall, you will have 2 modal peaks (lengthwise and widthwise) coupling around 230ish hz. You could have heightwise modal peaks in that band as well depending on your head height/ceiling height. When the modes start to couple like that in a squarish room, it can feel much worse perceptively. It is not your speaker’s fault really, as you can see. Many speakers will have similar issues in your room. You could try to treat some of this with aborptive panels that are atleast 4 inches thick, but, considering your room’s small dimensions, it may eat into your room space. Parametric EQ could be an easier friend here. Try to not use the poor GEQ implementation in your PC’s media player or the DAC in your PC. You could use the PC just as a control point (w/ control app) to control a higher quality dedicated streamer/dac such as the Wiim.
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Again, thanks for all the responses. @deep_333 Very interesting data you have posted. Maybe true with pure sine wave sweep but with music it is irrelevant. I have used many bookshelf and even a few floorstanders and didn't have this issue. In fact, most of data I had all had the opposite effect but it was usually at 140hz at about 12db null. Not with the Paradigm. |
I agree with Deep333’s analysis. You have a couple nasty room nodes - eigentones as they are formally called that are likely at the root of your issue. Seeing as you can’t realistically pull the speakers into the room, and damping them is not feasible, you need two things: first, a speaker intended for half space placement- up or almost up against the wall, and that means a very well damped bass tuning (low Q like .7). Most small speakers are tuned with Q of closer to 1 or 1.1 to give a mid bass bump to camouflage their limited low bass (LS3/5a’s, I’m looking at you). Also, Make sure the speakers come with bungs to plug the ports, allowing you to tune the bass somewhat. I would look seriously at the Monitor Audio Silver 50 7G, The build and driver quality are a definite step up from most speakers in this range, and MA even specifies a 15 CM (6") space to the rear wall as all that is necessary - by design. The 7G MAs all have a quickness and clarity to them that is very surprising, without the usual hardness that can accompany the perception of speed. My second choice would be a pair of used KEF LS-50s - definitely a nearfield monitor, they didn’t spend over a decade on Stereophile’s Class A (Limited LF) list for nothing. They were, and are, the least expensive speaker on that list by a factor of about 10. I would also, if at all possible, spring for a couple 2X4 ft 2" acoustical panels, They can’t address the LF room nodes, but they will do a remarkable job of clearing up the sound over all. Place them vertically along the side walls at ear level or on the ceiling, centering them on the line of first reflection, e.g. in a 10 ft room, assuming the speakers face is 1 ft from the wall and your listening position is 2 ft from the back wall, the panels would be centered on a line 3’5 ft from the wall behind the speakers. |
@panzrwagn Thanks for the response. Most of the recommendation you mention has been addressed already. The room has acoustic panels with 2" thick. Both on the first reflection, rear, and behind the speakers. The speakers are 1/4(about 1.5ft) almost 1/3 into the room. The listening position is about 2/3 from the front wall or 1/3 from the rear wall(7 ft from the front wall or 3ft from the back). I totally agree that the room dimensions is the worse for room nodes but it is the only room in the house that I can use for listening. It is the hardest to correct but not impossible. As I mention earlier in the thread, I have gone through many speakers and mostly does not have this issue. Most of the speakers I tried were front ported except two, the Paradigm Mini Monitors v3 and the Energy Veritas 2.2. The Energy Veritas had a different sound then the mini monitors but were not on a proper stand. I will use my room acoustic software(Smaart not REW) to see my current response. |
You say you're looking for bookshelf speakers. Are you placing them on a bookshelf or will they be more stand mount? This makes a huge difference as most "bookshelf" speakers are not suitable to be place in the closed confines of a bookshelf. If stand mount, you have many options, if bookshelf, few. |
You might look into a pair of Fritz speakers if you can find a used pair in that price range.... https://www.fritzspeakers.com/
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@glennewdick Do you have a link to it? There is alot of comparison on YouTube.
@yogiboy Those are nice speakers but really like the SCM11 better for the bigger midbass woofer. Even thought the SCM7 might be more then sufficient for my room, I am a little weary about having too weak of bass. |
@glennewdick thx for sharing. The recordings are great. For the money, I think a used pair of Dynaudio Evoke 20 and Monitor Audio Bronze 100 6G are really jack of all trades, solid performers among the bunch. But, again, if you could bump up the budget, MA Silver 100 7G is still your best bet if you like its presentation. |
@glennewdick Thanks for the link. Nice broad of speaker brand. I have listen to every speakers in a short period of time with headphones. To my ears, I find the Sonus Faber sonetto sounding the best with a true, balance sound. Then again it is a little more then twice my recommended budget.
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Keep a look out for a pair of pre-owned Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference or Tyler Linbrook monitors. These are equipped with parts and drivers normally only found in >/= $8K/pair speakers. I recently bought an early 2000s pair of Taylo Refs that came with the upgraded Seas Excel (gold ring) tweeter for a mere $600. From about 60Hz on up, they are quite easily the best monitors/bookshelf speakers I’ve owned and among the best I’ve auditioned at any price. They will easily walk all over some of the $6K/pair dealer-sold bookshelf speakers and compete well against speakers like the B&W 805 D4s. Pretty much any brand new box store/dealer-sold speakers under $2K/pair sound like distortion machines relative to the aforementioned Tyler speakers. |
op - If you keep high expectations but set a low budget, you might as well raise your budget and let everyone around here know who is trying to help. For example, someone suggested the SCM7, but then you said you preferred the SCM11, which is 100% higher than the budget you initially specified. I suggested lower-priced speakers, and then you were interested in SF Sonetto II that are 130% more expensive. I'm not saying you need to agree with our recommendations—audio gear is subjective, after all—but at the very least, you should make up your mind to avoid wasting everyone's time here. |
@lanx0003 My expectations is high, maybe but a better question should be asked, should I expect to get higher quality sound at a higher price tag? That is where expectations are high also. |
OP, if your bar is set high, that’s great. Consider setting a higher budget to accept suggestions that meet your expectations. Push your envelope to where your point of diminishing returns lies. I went through a similar process and ultimately settled on the Buchardt S400 II, which is priced right around $2.4k. The SCM11 was also on my radar but was ruled out primarily due to its limited low-end extension. I prioritize soundstage and tonal balance with nimble bass, a full midrange, and airy highs. For me, the SCM11 falls into the restricted low-end category and wouldn’t be my cup of tea, even though it is a competent performer in the rest of the frequency spectrum. Back then, I also asked for help from Audiogoners, but I was honest with them about my budget being around $2k. I had an initial list of choices, and Audiogoners helped me fine-tune and narrow down my options to three. The process is much more straightforward and smooth if your goals align with theirs. Don’t aim too high but settle for less—you’re wasting not only your own time but others’ as well. No offense intended, please. |
No offense intended. We just happen to see different view point on the matter of what we see a budget set. I only set my budget at 1.2k because I know at that price point wither new or used is a good starting point. Can I go higher on my budget, maybe I would need to hear data to back it up. Don't get me wrong, there are speakers at a higher price tag that sound great but there are also speakers with lower budget that can sound great too. It all come down to subjective. You want a bookshelf speaker that goes low into bass region and there is nothing wrong with that. You just going to have pay the price to achieve that accomplishment. As I mention before, we have different view points of what we want in sound. I personally like speakers to roll off at around 60-70hz at -3db slope. Again no offense taken and enjoy. |
You mean -3db / octave 'slope' at 60-70hz OR roll off 3db at 60-70hz? I never saw that preference mentioned anywhere in your post. It would be easier for those who want to help if you made it clear, wouldn’t it? That’s not a hard/high goal to achieve. I believe you can find a pair of good speakers within your price range that also meet the high expectations I mentioned above. I wish you luck.
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@lanx0003 -3db is the xo point between two bands, not the slope. I would have said 3db/oct. |
I'm not sure if you know what you are talking about. Take scm 11 that seems your favorite as an example (the chart above is its sum). Scm 11 is a two way speaker with the x-over around 2.5 khz, not 60-70hz. Second of all, what do you mean by "-3db is the xo point bet. two bands"? you mean 3db dip at xo point? (see the chart above). And lastly, "not the slope. I would have said 3db/oct." db/oct is a slope. You got that all messed up... anyway good luck
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I recommend you look into the PS Audio Aspen FR5 speakers, A lot of very good reviews. |
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@lanx0003 I know exactly what I am talking about. Like i said earlier post, we seem to interpret data differently. -3db and 3db dip at crossover point is the same thing. If there was a sub which I do would be a xo point just like xo in the speaker. Is there any thing else you want to know? Have a good day |
@garyalex Thanks for the link @grislybutter Interesting link. Thanks! |
A used pair of PMC Twenty 22 bookshelf sneakers if you can find them in used markets. These have been discontinued and a used pair can be had for around $1400 without the stands. They originally did retail for $4k a pair without stands back when they first came out in 2010. They were discontinued in 2016. These are fabulous speakers and they use PMC proprietary ATL (advanced transmission line) technology and they are front ventilated, not ported. They have front vent at the end of the transmission line. They are not picky when it comes to speaker placement and would work well in small room. |
