Beyonce releases first album in six years RENAISSANCE

Not my bag man. 

Thank you .....thylermunns and larsman as it appears that I hit the bulls eye ! I could have predicted expected these types of responses. You can continue to defend that genre of noise that is your prerogative and I will continue to tell I find very little talent there although you have concluded I know very little about the subject and you taken my '' tongue in check '' responses literally. I know who they are as was around during the East Coast  -West Coast Feud and what happened as a result of that and the loss of a person ( maybe two ) who were and had talent ; TuPac and possibly Biggie......liked their stuff. I will continue to say the Beyonce is okay but I do not think that she is belongs on the '' mountain '' she and the promoters have put her on. Now, if you excuse me I will go listen to some music that maybe you can take a page out of both of your responses and expand your musical domain .......might mellow you guys out a little.  

@tylermunns + 1

@adasdad  There is a contagion in this society with necessity to publish any and all dislikes, hatreds to the point it becomes impulse. Symptom of culture of complaint, 24/7, 365 celebration of Festivus. 

All this grievance sometimes makes me want to go back to 'sunshine pop' days and listen to some Partridge Family, Archies, Cowsills, Free Design. So now lets hear some hate for these bands and music.

Don't like this, how about some psychedelia, oops, we got hatred for this.

How about some Glenn Gould, Art Blakey or Metallica, oh some more hate on the way.

And how about the Eagles, now everyone loves the Eagles, don't they?

@onhwy61 ​​​​and @hifiguy42, you guys absolutely laid it out there. Haters be hatin’! I love and really appreciate Beyoncé’s artistry, vision, and incredible talent. She’s an extremely special person. And jealousy is a thing. 
 

Unfortunately now on social media some folks have found a safe space to rip everything and everyone they don’t like because I guess that’s what they need in their lives. Flat earthers, cable deniers, Capitol tourists. They’re all pissed and full of grievances that only they can comprehend. My dad always used to say if you ain’t got nothin good to share then keep it to yourself. 

I don't listen to any pop music really, and although I think Beyonce is beautiful and talented I fail to see what the point of gushing about her (or discussing her at all) on this forum is all about. Would we have missed this extremely hyped release somehow? The horse pic...ridiculous...but everywhere...I've worked with enough unpopular brilliant musicians to cringe when the hype wheel rolls around to another zillionaire getting press for overproduced silliness.

It never fails, the 1st person to bring up gender and/or race as “the reason” others do not like something will never understand they are actually… racist 😄

I don’t like her music. Actually, I think it’s pretty bad.

And honestly, what was the real reason for “announcing” she has a new album on this forum? 🤔😉

Oh, and for the 7/12/1979 reference - I still enjoy disco. The world would be a much better place if Hammer hadn’t been replaced …

And this is discussion worth why?

@garebear 

Suge Knight and Jay-Z, again, are not, “one and the same.”

One was a violent criminal-entrepreneur and the other is an artist-entrepreneur.

It’s sad to me that someone would issue such a blanket condemnation of rap/hip-hop “culture,” (whatever that means) then have the arrogance to call this opinion a “true statement” as if it were an immutable fact, especially when they show how little they actually know about the subject.

Prince .....not Price ....damm spell check  

.......tylermunns have been to Nashville ? I am not a big fan of a lot the country music that is out there today but if you do note that I did say ; '' for instance '' as there are a lot of really good musicians out there that unfortunately never get that '' break ''. I know that is ''Suge'' but do not want to give him any credit at all  - bad pun on my part. He is where he belongs and really not sure what you meant  by the comment ; '' that it maybe be hard for someone like you to differentiate ; these are two different people  '' . To me they are  ''one in the same'' ......'' another example of the garbage that is rap/ hip hop culture. True statement ......now for pop culture ; Price was talented and could play a really good guitar , not really a big fan of his music but did appreciate his talent. No Shug or Jazzy Z's there with that guy !           

The statement made above is what I would consider a reasoned, thoughtfully written one.

I’m much more inclined to engage with such than someone printing pop lyrics out of context and saying, “look at this trash these darn kids listen to!” Or just tossing out a vague, unconvincing statement like, “another example of the garbage that is rap/hip hop culture!”

There are concrete and specific reasons that any one of us dislikes a particular performer’s music.  Not that I spend much energy at all thinking about Beyoncé’s, but speaking for myself, I dislike her music because I find her music to not be on a reasonably high level compositionally, her lyrics often crass and her singing only marginally adequate compared to what I consider to be a good singer.  Is it “demeaning” to express an honest opinion on a discussion forum?  I don’t think so.  Yes, she is an entertainer and obviously many find her music entertaining  (a whole other story).  However, entertainers are, by definition, in the public eye and hence subject to varied opinions.  I doubt Beyoncé gives a darn about the fact that some here don’t like her music.

@garebear Have you ever actually listened to those artists who get “promoted beyond their talent level by ‘Country’ Moguls” from the Nashville scene you valorize?

When you say, “‘Shug’ Jay-Z”…For one, it’s “Suge,” not, “Shug.”
Suge Knight. Jay-Z.  Two completely different people.  I know this may be hard for someone like you to differentiate, but these are two different people. 
Also, Beyoncé didn’t just have, “some success” before she met Jay-Z.  She was hugely successful with 3 hit albums with Destiny’s Child.

But no, let’s keep pushing the archaic idea that talented women are successful  because they met the right famous dude, not by their own merits.

I do not think you are making proper analogy...  Actually, way off to the point that I do not even wish to comment on it.  It is kinda ... laughable.

Jimi Hendrix was an entertainer.  Louis Armstrong was an entertainer.  Elvis was an entertainer.  The Rolling Stones are entertainers.  Micheal Jackson was an entertainer.  Chopin was an entertainer.  David Bowie was an entertainer.  Bruce Springsteen is an entertainer.  And yeah, Beyonce Knowles is an entertainer.  You can be a great entertainer, or showman, and still produce really good music.  In fact, they start using the word genius when the showmanship is great and the music is excellent, think Ray Charles.

To say you don't like her music is one thing.  To say you don't like her and belittle her is another thing.

.......there is difference to me at least, between entertainers and entertainment. What I can't believe is that for the first time I actually agree with : jasonbourne52 !!! 

Yes she did have some success prior to her marriage with "Shug '' Jay Z but you can't tell me that he didn't have a huge influence on where she is today. There are some great artists out there ....just for instance visit Nashville just for an example and there are some incredibly talented musicians out there that will never get a break or have Hip Pop Moguls promote them when beyond their talent level.    

@dayglow I"m not making this claim for everyone, give me a break. This is my own experience, and what I've observed with certain others over my lifetime.

I still have my prejudices/biases that keep me from ability to enjoy other genres/artists. Are you making claim you're devoid of prejudice/bias of any sort?

Beyonce won't be everyone's cup of tea, nor will any artist or genre for that matter, but the generalized attacks on artists or genres only expose one's biases/prejudices. This type of attack is very transparent and  overt on this thread.

@sns   What does "letting go" and "open mind" have anything to do with a performer not meeting your standards?  That may have been your issue(prejudices/biases). As previously stated I have listened to "Lemonade" in its entirety it's just one of > 99% of recordings(ever made) that I never need/want to hear again. That leaves millions of other recordings to discover and possibly enjoy. To make the claim that prejudices/bias and a closed mind is a valid reason why many Audiophiles/Melophiles ignore Beyonce as a serious performer/singer/songwriter/musician is ludicrous!

Where is my umbrella? Bella, Bella, Bella. I think she should get together with Brittany for a “toxic” tour with special guest Madonna. Match Springsteen concert ticket prices of 10k+ each. Woke is me!!!

@sns +1 

"She's really popular and the artists I like aren't so much, so it can't be any good!!"

Seems like another artist whose persona/marketing gets in the way of possible enjoyment. I'm not one who enjoys the constant marketing hype or peering into the personal life of famous people, therefore, have tendency to ignore these artists. Have to say, on more than one occasion have been pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed some of these artist's output, Beyonce included in this.

Sometimes its difficult to let go of certain prejudices/biases towards certain artists and genres, letting go has allowed me to enjoy far more music than I would have with closed mind.

keep those dog whistles tuned!

@frogman We all look back and laugh at the ridiculous prudishness of people sanctimoniously reading the lyrics to “Whole Lotta Shakin’ Goin’ On” and “Good Golly Miss Molly” with a comically haughty tone.

It’s a very unintentionally funny thing to watch. 

**** I was only commenting on how odd it seems to me to take the time to just let people know your opposition to a choice they have made. Do you poke your head inside a restaurant to let a patron know the meatloaf is overrated? ****

This common sentiment is always a curious one. There is no “opposition”; all are free to listen to whatever they want. However, this is a DISCUSSION forum and you have chosen to post (discuss) the choice that you have made. Are others not allowed to discuss and post their opinions as well; simply because they don’t support yours?

Some of the lyrics are not appropriate.  Maybe I am conservative but her outfit is not appropriate either.  Her album will likely be censored in other countries I can tell you that.

@frogman +1! Another example of the garbage that is rap/hip hop culture!

Are you implying that her work is an art? Again, before any such conclusion, I believe that we should try to understand and establish what an art is

Hey, I looooove Waiting For Columbus, I wasn't criticizing the album. And debate all you like about an artist's merit. I was only commenting on how odd it seems to me to take the time to just let people know your opposition to a choice they have made. Do you poke your head inside a restaurant to let a patron know the meatloaf is overrated?

I'm not bothered in the least by the profanity, and "I'm That Girl" is an absolute banger IMHO, but I get that it might make people uncomortable. A lot of art does that.

She’s a created pop product. You buy it or you don’t. It’s nothing serious.

I am not a fan by any means, but I took a woman I was dating to her concert around 10 years ago. We had floor seats, row 5, and all I can say is, that is one young lady who can sing! She was so emotional on one song, she was physically crying. It blew me away at the heart and soul that she threw into her show. 

I love the new Beyonce, which was especially good today spurring me on through my workout and treadmill run at the gym. If this album doesn't get you moving, you're wired differently than I am. And that's just fine. But the hostility is weird.

I really like "Waiting For Columbus"...

Enjoy your evening

I’m not sure which people just say, “hey, you can’t criticize (blank) because that person is (blank).”

I’ve never heard someone use sexual/gender identification or ethnicity as a defense for someone’s behavior. If I did, I would say, “that is extremely dumb,” because that’s exactly what that would be. I’m not saying it’s never happened, just as lots of extremely dumb things happen, but such inanity doesn’t even warrant debate.

For those suggesting that Beyoncé owes her success to her marital relationship, I would remind you she was extremely successful way before she met Jay-Z.

Also, the OP chose to create a thread based solely on the fact that an extremely famous artist released on album the other day.  The subsequent expression of opinions is the point of an opinion forum. No nefarious acts are committed if people say an opinion you disagree with. There is no attempt at, “creating division” at play here.  There is no stipulation at the top of the page that says, “ONLY THOSE WHO SPEAK FAVORABLY OF THE SUBJECT MAY CONTRIBUTE.”

Do we like debate or not? I like it when people agree with me as much as the next guy, but I’m growing so, so tired of this idea that the expression of dissenting opinion is inherently “malicious” or “hostile.”

@alexatpos - good points! 

@garebear Thx for the shout out! I was not the one that mentioned Little Feat, it might have been hifiguy42? Not sure what his point was. We as Audiophiles and Melophiles only have so much time to listen. An elimination process is necessary I can’t give my listening time to Beyonce when a Stan Getz/Beethoven/or Steely Dan LP is on the shelf. The bottom line could be some are offended if one has higher standards or the OP could have bated us to create division?

Before such conclusion, one should try to define which music, books or art we are talking about and than we should establish the context of such discussion. Of course, it is up to any individual to choose how it will relate to such things, but I would not agree that all ’music, books and art’ might be considered as an ’enterteiment’, or at least, some are not created to be observed as such.

Than again, there is a story when W.Blake met than young Constable when he was just finishing one of his paintings. Blake, amezed, said that painting is an inspiration, but Constable answered that he believe that is a landscape...

Music is entertainment as well as art, just like books, movies, television, etc...

....thank you DayGlow and you are spot on as it just seems anymore that anytime there is any criticism valid or even not valid about a person .....the person's ethnicity or partner preference gets used as a defense. There is some talent there with her to a degree if that's the music you like, but you wonder if she didn't have the husband she has ( I will leave that alone ) and for reasons I am not sure of ,  the amount of publicity her music gets - '' would she even be musically relevant '' ?  It all sounds the same .......now as far as Little Feat is concerned as you had notably mentioned ; '' Waiting For Columbus '' is done by some really good musicians and not be entertainers. Maybe there is where the issue lies ; musicians vs entertainers. I enjoy listening to good musicians and entertainers are just that .........entertainers. 50 years from now will you still be listening to her music ? I doubt it but you can still put on ; Miles Davis or Howlin Wolf ....the Beatles for that matter and you know what ; yup it's still good !!!!   

What lyric is she removing before the official release? Seeing as it was released elsewhere in the world by someone, I guess it will be easy to get both versions.

Their, there, they're. those three words get confused frequently.

Beyonce should be judged on her vocal ability first. If the "Beyhive" cult enjoy and value the theatrics/imagry/TMZ gossip/ ect. there searching for something other then musical excellence. What ever happened to her alter ego "Shasha Fierce"?

Beyonce is a singer. She is liked by millions. Is she in the league of a pre 80's Jazz diva?

When Beyonce comes to mind, I think of a overproduced, distracting background dancers, flashing lights spectacle.

Perhaps her actual singing talent is there, but...

For those that need to defend Beyonce is perplexing. Her ethnicity or gender has nothing to do with her popularity whether your an Audiophile/Melophile or both. It is simply about the content of her music. Many can develop an informed opinion if they don't listen to the entire recording. Personally I have listened to the complete recording of "Lemonade" which is considered her best work. It just does not meet my standards when considering all the great vocalists/musicians/orchestras that have been recorded.

@hifiguy42 + 1

@onhwy61 + 1

It's a tribute to 90's dance music.  Either you get or you don't.  Why some people are so proud that they don't get it is strange to me.

She is pretty amazing, and her music is as well.  Of course, she is black and female, so plenty (not all!) on of this forum will definitely categorize her as "hack" "low talent" "full of herself" etc without ever having actually listened to more than snippets of whatever they accidentally hear while out in the non-audiophile (real) world, presumably searching for a higher grade copy of Waiting For Columbus. If you do take the time to listen to a full album, say Yellow for instance, and don't like her music, cool! My advice at that point is to skip going into topic discussions about her (or other artists you DON'T like) to profess your dislike (to the point of insulting that artist's fans - that's some weirdly hostile psychologicial stuff right there) for her. It has to be exhausting, both physically and to your psyche, to constantly remind others of your standards of taste, and in the long run, it just makes you seem petty and crass. It hearkens back to the energy and zeitgeist of the night of July 12, 1979 at Comiskey. watch footage of that for the same level of thoughtful analysis of a genre.